New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

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New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby dbcooper41 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:39 am

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world ... y/6999003/

Posted: 4 minutes ago

NEW YORK — Newly released aerial photos of the Sept. 11, 2001, World Trade Center attack show the towers coming
down from a dramatic new angle.

The photos were obtained by ABC News, which filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the National Institute of Standards and Technology last year. The NIST collected the images as part of its investigation into the terrorist attack.

ABC said it was provided 2,779 pictures on nine CDs. Many of the photos, taken from police helicopters, have never been
released before.

Twelve of the photos appear on ABC's Web site. One photo shows a close-up the upper floors of the burning towers.

Others show the towers' dramatic collapse in a thick plume of smoke and debris and sweeping views of billowing smoke
clouds.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby §ê¢rꆧ » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:53 am

Very interesting. Just off the bat, I bet this one will be the subject of a lot of discussion. I'd like to see a higher-rez version of this:
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby barracuda » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:52 pm

^That building looks like it's about to collapse.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby dbcooper41 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:27 pm

looking into the photographer credited with most of the pics i've seen, Greg Semendinger, i found this. he was also the chopper pilot who saved 28 people in 1993.

this tidbit about the 22nd floor is also interesting to me.

http://ask.metafilter.com/36988/WTC-and-Choppers

"But on the morning of September 11, a different scene lay below Semendinger’s helicopter. Through gaps in the thick smoke erupting from the ruptured tower, Semendinger saw no one on the roof. The reason why was brutally obvious: the doors leading to the roof were locked.

These doors were locked by order of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ), owner of the Trade Center. They were locked in part because of concerns about suicides, daredevil stunts and possible theft or vandalism of the millions of dollars worth of broadcasting equipment on the roof. Locking the doors also effectively barred any possibility of a rooftop rescue.
Authorization and the means to unlock those heavy steel doors came from a security center located on the 22nd floor. But the security center wasn’t able to help. Falling debris knocked it out almost as soon as the first airliner hit the tower.

? now how exactly did a plane hitting the top of the building "knock out" the security center on the 22nd floor?

more on semendinger and choppers(you reckon he caught hell in high school with that name?)



"WTC and Choppers
April 25, 2006 11:10 AM Subscribe
Why was there no effort made to rescue those trapped on the upper floors of the World Trade Center with helicopters?
This has been bothering me for some time, and now with United 93 out, it's back on my mind. I have never heard or read a good explanation of why this was not possible. If it wasn't feasible to land a chopper on the roof, why not lower a basket or roped ladder to pull up survivors to safety (it's done with water rescues). Ideally, this would happen with a rotating fleet of helicopters dropping off survivors nearby and then returning to get more.

Too little time to stage such a thing? Perhaps. But in the hour or so that those buildings remained standing, surely dozens if not hundreds of people could have been saved. Why not even try?
posted by terrier319 to society & culture (19 comments total)

I suspect the biggest reason no such rescues took place is because most first responders assumed the towers would remain standing.
posted by nomisxid at 11:31 AM on April 25, 2006

From Aviation Industry News:

Minutes after the first airliner slammed into the Trade Center’s North Tower, two NYPD helicopters, a Bell JetRanger and Bell 412, arrived on the scene. Both surveyed the roof of the North Tower, which, while festooned with small antennas and a 360-ft broadcasting tower, still had enough space for a small, unlighted helistop, an area of the cluttered 110th-story rooftop certified for helicopter landings.

For the pilot of the NYPD Bell 412, the scene was reminiscent of a morning nightmare eight years before. In February 1993, a huge truck bomb went off in the parking garage at the North Tower’s base. While the loss of life was comparatively low, smoke from the explosion filled the stairwells used for evacuation. Some workers, caught in the upper stories of the 1,353-ft tower, opted to go up instead of down.

Hovering over the scene in 1993, NYPD officer/pilot Greg Semendinger spotted the frantic Trade Center workers, lowered two men to the rooftop to remove antenna obstructions, and then proceeded to shuttle 28 people to safety. Semendinger loaded them into the Bell 412 and whisked them to safety at the base of the tower.
According to sources within the city government and emergency agencies, there was another reason the doors were locked: the highly publicized turf wars the New York police and fire departments have been fighting for years. Barred by the city decades ago from operating any of its own helicopters, fire department higher-ups had been incensed by the police-led Trade Center rescues in 1993, decrying them as dangerous, unnecessary grandstanding.


While an official spokesman for the NYPD, deputy commissioner Thomas Antenen, described the controversy as “moot,” maintaining that billowing smoke from the fires below completely obscured the rooftop rescue landing area, Semendinger steadfastly maintains that the wind that morning left a corner of the rooftop relatively clear of smoke and that recovery of at least a few dozen people could have been possible.


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All posts are © their original authors."


a meaningless(probably) factoid: great great grandfather was a famous photog also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Semmendinger

"Noteable Decendents
Guido Semmendinger (1864-1939) son to August Semmendinger -

Guido was a founding member of the Fort Lee, NJ Fire Department.

August Semendinger (1906-1979) son of Guido, grandson to August Semmendinger -

August was a founding member of the Norwood, NJ Ambulance Corps.

Greg Semendinger - great-great grandson to August Semmendinger -

NYPD officer/helecopter pilot Greg Semendinger helped rescue 28 people from the roof of the World Trade Center after the 1993 WTC parking garage bombing"
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby dbcooper41 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:55 pm

more mention of 22nd floor from an "unfriendly" source:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/World_Trade_Center


"When the plane crashed into the building, approximately 30% of the jet fuel burned off immediately in the fireballs, and
roughly half of the jet fuel remained unburned beyond the initial impact and fires. Jet fuel was sent pouring down elevator and utility shafts, causing fires and injuries on lower floors. Port Authority police and FDNY members on the scene saw people seriously burned and enveloped in flames, from a fireball at concourse level, as well as through the lobby of the North Tower. Jet fuel also started fires on the B4 level of the North Tower, when a fireball came down the elevator shaft to the basement levels.[18] At 8:47 a.m., WTC security reported a fire on the 22nd floor.[19](NIST NCSTAR1-8, p. 36 ) "

as sad as the story is i always get a grin out of this totally absurd statement:
Jet fuel was sent pouring down elevator and utility shafts, causing fires and injuries on lower floors.


just try and figure how that could be even remotely possible.

i personally think we need to take a closer look at tennants around the 21/22nd floor. i didn't notice anything about security offices there so who had the keys to the roof hatches?

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tr ... ants1.html
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby barracuda » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:28 pm

dbcooper41 wrote:
Jet fuel was sent pouring down elevator and utility shafts, causing fires and injuries on lower floors.


just try and figure how that could be even remotely possible.


I'm not saying it's impossible, but here is a graphic comparison of the cubic volume of jet fuel, 929 cubic feet, compared to WTC 1.

So, 2,779 pictures released via a FOIA request, and we have access to 12 at the moment. I hope a few more get published by ABC, or someone.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:41 pm

Not-really-OT: If you want to get a deeply depressing but accurate picture of the dire state of [what passes for] the British left right now, take a look at this thread on MediaLens today:

peer reviewed paper on WTC

http://www.medialens.org/board/


'lenin' (prominent blogger at Lenin's Tomb) makes me ill. I don't know where to start with the crap he's spouting there (so very, very, eloquently) along with his less-eloquent pals. It is just shameful in every way. The complete indifference to truth. The smug ignorance masquerading as political wisdom. The grotesque deference to shoddy and discredited authority. The bully-boy bravado.

It's vomit-inducing.

ON EDIT: NB, this shouldn't be taken either as an endorsement or as a repudiation of David Ray Griffin, none of whose books I've ever read. Nor do I think focusing on the buildings' collapse is, or ever has been, the best way to address the whole topic. That's not the point, though.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby elfismiles » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:43 pm



:shock: Seriously?!

Wow, kinda reminds me of the whole hundreds of thousands of troops to go after 100 al-Qaeda.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby pepsified thinker » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:01 pm

barracuda wrote: So, 2,779 pictures released via a FOIA request, and we have access to 12 at the moment.


probably a few heads bent over light tables/screens trying to spot anything that might matter, while other folks are poised over keyboards, ready to make posts and so on that will direct attention elsewhere.

and there will be an astounding lack of statements/comments from ABC or any other official sources about the other pics.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:12 pm

These pics have been out since at least 2004.

Here's the link with the whole series of images, where I found them originally.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/282415/Milita ... win-Towers

I just used them recently for a project that I've been working on here -

What happened to the cars at the WTC?
http://doyoueverwonderblog.wordpress.co ... t-the-wtc/
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:50 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Not-really-OT: If you want to get a deeply depressing but accurate picture of the dire state of [what passes for] the British left right now, take a look at this thread on MediaLens today:

peer reviewed paper on WTC

http://www.medialens.org/board/


'lenin' (prominent blogger at Lenin's Tomb) makes me ill. I don't know where to start with the crap he's spouting there (so very, very, eloquently) along with his less-eloquent pals. It is just shameful in every way. The complete indifference to truth. The smug ignorance masquerading as political wisdom. The grotesque deference to shoddy and discredited authority. The bully-boy bravado.

It's vomit-inducing.

ON EDIT: NB, this shouldn't be taken either as an endorsement or as a repudiation of David Ray Griffin, none of whose books I've ever read. Nor do I think focusing on the buildings' collapse is, or ever has been, the best way to address the whole topic. That's not the point, though.
The complete failure of 3 structural steel buildings on the same day is not important? Of course not. :roll: Because if we look at how these buildings came down, along with minor things like the stand down of NORAD, then they'd have to admit that 19 hijackers with boxcutters is a big fat lie. And if that's a lie, all of the rest of it is a lie, too.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:13 pm

DoYouEverWonder wrote:The complete failure of 3 structural steel buildings on the same day is not important? Of course not. :roll:


I never said that, nor anything like it, so please spare me your straw man and then spare me your eye-rolling smiley.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby nathan28 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:03 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
DoYouEverWonder wrote:The complete failure of 3 structural steel buildings on the same day is not important? Of course not. :roll:


I never said that, nor anything like it, so please spare me your straw man and then spare me your eye-rolling smiley.



I can understand the desire of communists to keep 9/11 out of the agenda as the result of a few things.

First off, the Troof Faktor. You need only look to the mess of recent commentary about Alex Jones to see that 9/11 Truth is easily manipulated by any demagogue and much easier to bend to the will of any far-right John Bircher mouth-breating petty-bourgie-morality retardofascist nutjobbery. Peter Dale Scott, e.g., is the only person I'm aware of as having successfully presented a politicized 9/11 left-wing reading--that the abuses of the intelligence community, its flawed approach, and an active program of on the one hand recruiting the populist far right for the purposes of the capitalist class while on the other relentless pursuing regressive policies, all of which lead to an incredibly anti-democratic mode of operation by de facto agents of government that is largely responsible for the spread of both Islamism and the far right--But see what I mean? Do you know how long it would take to unpack that sentence, when all it really says is to offer the command "tax the rich and cut military spending?" There's much less tortuous routes. 9/11 is an effect, not a cause, and the cause is so easy to identify and so pernicious that 9/11 seems like a footnote in the larger context.***

Second, generally speaking, even if every conspiracy theory were actively proven immediately--it's not actionable. It's all historical points, and it's over-specific in nature. Okay, the mob and the far right paid LHO, known triple agent, to hang out in the book depository next to a planted rifle that didn't match the shooting while someone else fired on him (my theory). So what? "Anti-communist liberal killed by anti-communist conservative cabal" is hardly news to me, especially considering that "that rat" Nixon's policies are now all to the left of Obama's. That view informs my understanding of the greater phenomenon--the rise of the far anti-democratic, militaristic right as a prominent part of the elite, in opposition to liberal anti-communists who advocated trade rather than military containment, and whom Reagan and Thatcher largely brought back into the fold (see Obama). But you know what my problem is? Their shit is still bourgeious shit, regardless of whether they contributed to B-roc of Johnny-Where's My-NovaMcCain. On one level it matters, on another, it doesn't. 9/11 Truth is simply a non-issue.

On the ground, the present-day manifestation of all this is CIA recruiting at college campuses during the steepest recession in a First-World lifetime. And all the 9/11 Exposed!!!! in the world won't matter for shit in that regard, save to dissuade the already-dissuaded. I will grant Alex Jones a small, small modicum of credit for inadvertently cultivating a certain pacifism among people who would otherwise be in basic training, but I imagine that if he had his way, Texas Hitler would have rolled out the Loyalty Oaths on those people.

At the same time, I also simply do not understand why the basic issue with 9/11--the lies--is so easily overlooked by so many. It may fit into that retardoconservative "gubbmint liez!" rubric, but it does seem like a certain acute violation of basic social covenants that is odious in its own right.



And on edit, it's seeing the buildings collapse in their locations, e.g., with images of the Battery Park apartments getting showered in debris, that makes all those images seem so much more worse than any Kontrulled Demolishun porn. See? I have feelings.

2nd edit:

9/11 Changed Everything

Believe it or not, I have comparatively little to say about 9/11. But what I have to say I’m going to take the opportunity to say.

There is no point in getting bogged down in Byzantine theories about what happened on 9/11. Simply put, short of a political and social revolution we will never know. There is literally no way to tease out information from disinformation without having access to the full archives of the American intelligence community. But really, what actually happened isn’t the point. At least not yet.

The point is that we, as a nation, were lied to, either by omission or commission. I would like to remind everyone that most of the official narrative of 9/11 comes from Condi Rice, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and George W. Bush. The “cave dwellers with box cutters” theory was eaten early on by the corporate media, and no meaningful, independent investigation occurred or would be allowed to occur.

And what were the results of this intense propaganda campaign which provided no evidence for its claims? The deaths of thousands of Americans, nearly a million Iraqis, scads of Afghani peoples, and increasing numbers of Pakistanis. Oh, and let’s not forget trillions of dollars in the pockets of war profiteers and mercenary armies.

It seems worth pointing out that the current administration accepts the claims of the Bush Administration on 9/11 without question. Just like like they accept the “right” of the United States to intervene militarily wherever it deems fit without question.

So on this 9/11, I would encourage everyone to reflect about the various and sundry American military adventures since World War II. And while I think that something far more nefarious than the official story of 9/11 went down that day, I urge all people to keep the discussion on the important and substantive issues: mass media manipulation, the military-industrial complex, and the right-wing march of American politics. Stick to what you know. Because it may have been lasers on the moon that brought down the buildings, but until we have all the information… we’ll never really know anything.


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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:48 pm

nathan, that's a long post and I'll try to respond properly to it tomorrow (busy right now). The only thing I want to say at the moment is that 1) truths exist, and 2) they matter, especially when they're truths about mass murder, and most especially when that mass murder serves as an all-purpose casus belli for years on end.

It's not an option. Indifference to the truth about anything of any importance is moral and intellectual suicide. Political suicide, too. (See 'lenin' and his understandably-minuscule "revolutionary-left" SWP.)

9/11 Truth is easily manipulated by any demagogue and much easier to bend to the will of any far-right John Bircher mouth-breating petty-bourgie-morality retardofascist nutjobbery.


So what? Anything can be bent to anyone's purposes, including any truth. That a very small proportion of those who reject the demonstrably untruthful Official Yarn are "retardofascist nutjobs" is irrelevant - especially considering the much more obvious and significant fact that retardofascist nutjobs overwhelmingly accept the retardofascist nutjob Official Yarn.
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Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

Postby lupercal » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:57 pm

^ ^ yep yep, it matters, bigtime, just like JFK matters.

Peter Dale Scott, e.g., is the only person I'm aware of as having successfully presented a politicized 9/11 left-wing reading


Fetzer and Griffin both politicize it and they're frankly better at it, at least IMHO. More latez..
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