The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

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The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:56 pm

Best said here.....

" When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why its violent ? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind.
When you separate yourself by belief, nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system ; He is concerned with the total understanding of mankiind;

J. Krishnamurti.
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:54 pm

Wise words, slim.

Welcome back.
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Hammer of Los » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:35 pm

...

Hail, Cosmic Citizens!

Welcome to the Galactic Federation.

...
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby KUAN » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:44 pm

I got a copy of 'The Wandering Who' from the library and found it to be logical and reasonable. Seems to me that Atzmon is harmed by association with bigoted websites.
My relationship with my kids has been forever spoiled by my refusal to condone the toxic ideology that their mother passed on to them by stealth.
I'm now wary of anyone who thinks of themselves as other than simply human.
I also think that it's time to accord equal rights to the rest of creation.
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Ben D » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:51 pm

Cosmic citizens maybe HoL, but there should be no identification with a particular Galaxy for that suggests potential violence... :)
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby KUAN » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:58 pm

“If you must hold yourself up to your children as an object lesson, hold yourself up as a warning and not as an example.”

George Bernard Shaw
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby tazmic » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:01 pm

slimmouse wrote:Best said here.....

" When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why its violent ? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind.
When you separate yourself by belief, nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system ; He is concerned with the total understanding of mankiind;

J. Krishnamurti.

Freedom from the Known, p.51-52

Good prep for this century of change.
"It ever was, and is, and shall be, ever-living fire, in measures being kindled and in measures going out." - Heraclitus

"There aren't enough small numbers to meet the many demands made of them." - Strong Law of Small Numbers
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Forgetting2 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:27 pm

Not trying to be snarky. Just a question for clarification, but if I say I'm half Norwegian, half German and English and American Indian, and that I'm a modified Christian/Buddhist/Agnostic, am I being violent?

How about if I say I'm a human being who's ancestors are Norwegian, German, English, American Indian (and probably some other stuff I don't know about) and that I'm a modified Christian/Buddhist/Agnostic?

Sorry, one more on edit:

How about if I say I'm a Vegan?
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:41 pm

Forgetting2 wrote:Not trying to be snarky. Just a question for clarification, but if I say I'm half Norwegian, half German and English and American Indian, and that I'm a modified Christian/Buddhist/Agnostic, am I being violent?


I'm afraid so. You must renounce your inherited privillege and sign up as a citizen of the wholly non-violent First Global State of the Universe.

We have an anthem prepared, you must learn it:



Forgetting2 wrote:How about if I say I'm a human being who's ancestors are Norwegian, German, English, American Indian (and probably some other stuff I don't know about) and that I'm a modified Christian/Buddhist/Agnostic?


Sounds alright mate. Long as you're not Jewish.
"The universe is 40 billion light years across and every inch of it would kill you if you went there. That is the position of the universe with regard to human life."
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby barracuda » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:43 pm

J. Krishnamurti wrote:When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why its violent ? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind.


Disagree. Personal identification with one's origins, one place of birth, ancestry, custom and tradition is vital. Only by preserving the identification with the past, with your family, with the land, does the connection to that land and place become a personal, local, interest. This is how one is integrated into the larger world - by integration within the community where you live.

It may not be how he meant it, but Krishnamurti's words reflect the philosophy of the corporation: we belong nowhere and everywhere. His words reflect the philosophy of the nihilist, and the iconoclast: discard your past, abandon your traditions.

Don't get me wrong - you should sell everything you have and give the money to the poor. You should. But if you confront the world without community or place, you will be wandering.

When you separate yourself by belief, nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system ; He is concerned with the total understanding of mankiind;


Tradition does not cause violence. Tradition places a person within the skein of life and gives him purpose and community. It makes that community a family. Those persons we view as most in touch with their place in the world are - not coincidentally - those whose traditions have been most dearly kept.

We must become indigenous people, all of us. Tie yourself to your community and your family and your place and then cultivate a happy wonderment that others do as well in an amazing miscellany of ways.

Don't be so eager to consign your identity to the scrapheap. This is exactly what the lizards want, what the Illuminati want, what the NWO promises, what the corporations are bringing you - a bland and gigantic mall of placeless logos instead of the rich traditions of individuality that spring from a love of the specificity of your neighborhood, your tribe. A world of products, not places.

I'd love to buy the world a Coke.

I'll tell you what causes violence: money. Greed. It's entirely possible to live in peace and appreciate the vast variety of differences in men and their ways. I'd say such appreciation might just be a mandatory requirement for doing so. But Krishnamurti's statement doesn't really reflect that, probably because of his background. It's easy to be a citizen of the world when those around you have told you since your youth that you are a god.

I believe that a single world government is probably a viable answer to many of the problems we face today. But should such an organization come to power without honor and gratitude and maybe even awe for the many differences that make up humankind, it will surely be a sterile thing. For better or worse, there will be no saving the world without tradition. One of the great traditions which has been abandoned was the sacredness of this place. Reverence for the world must become a tradition again. And that reverence begins at home. Locally.
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Forgetting2 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:53 pm

^^Dang, that was good.
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Forgetting2 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:56 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:We have an anthem prepared, you must learn it:


I used to play trumpet. Am I permitted to do a trumpet version of it?
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby Jeff » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:57 pm

Caution, violence ahead:

Image

I'm the product of a settler culture that expropriated the land and destroyed much of the biomass that sustained its first people. Tempting as it is, I mean to avoid the insult of expropriating their traditions as well, even under the cloak of benign homogenization.

We're all in this together now, but we're not the same.
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:27 pm

Jeff wrote:I'm the product of a settler culture that expropriated the land and destroyed much of the biomass that sustained its first people.


So am I. So were your ancestors, in all probability, long before they even reached North America.

Is anyone here not the product of a settler culture that expropriated the land and destroyed much of the biomass that sustained its first people?

I'm not trying to score debating points. It's a rhetorical question but also a perfectly serious one.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: The Gilad Atzmon thread - a PERSONAL redux

Postby justdrew » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:27 pm

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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