Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Alyxical » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:20 pm

Simulist said:

if I knew a crazed bomber were in my neighboorhood, and I saw "cops who look and perform their duties exactly like military troops 'securing' my neighborhood," I'm pretty sure I'm going to see the Cavalry, come to rescue me! But some others might see an assault force, come to get them.


The thing is, it's not that either/or. At least, it wasn't for me.

I spent the better part of Friday listening for the "inevitable" sounds of massive violence (I live fairly close to where most of the action took place). Wondering what if more bombs go off, what if the suspect takes hostages, what if some trigger-happy dude with a badge sees a flutter of movement and blows an innocent bystander away for taking a step out onto their porch. When it finally all ended and there was no additional loss of life, I breathed a sigh of relief.

I've found it very interesting to read this thread and learn that my having breathed that sigh means I'm a fascist and a coward and a "pussy" and a police state cheerleader.

I don't know why it's being presented in this starkly either/or way. Some of us who live in this area actually have complex feelings about pretty much every element of what happened. We're not somehow divided into two camps, with "fascist", unquestioning cop-adorers on one side and on the other side, morally-superior defenders of liberty waving dismissively at the "mere teenager" suspect with one hand while flipping off the cops with the other.

I can't speak for anyone else, really, but I didn't see an "assault force" coming for me and I didn't see a "cavalry", either.

Thank you, though, Simulist, for trying to see things in a less judgmental light than some of the other folks around here. In fact, let me take this moment to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread without feeling the need to claim that everyone in Boston is an evil embracer of fascism.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Simulist » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:29 pm

Alyxical wrote:Simulist said:

if I knew a crazed bomber were in my neighboorhood, and I saw "cops who look and perform their duties exactly like military troops 'securing' my neighborhood," I'm pretty sure I'm going to see the Cavalry, come to rescue me! But some others might see an assault force, come to get them.


The thing is, it's not that either/or. At least, it wasn't for me.

I spent the better part of Friday listening for the "inevitable" sounds of massive violence (I live fairly close to where most of the action took place). Wondering what if more bombs go off, what if the suspect takes hostages, what if some trigger-happy dude with a badge sees a flutter of movement and blows an innocent bystander away for taking a step out onto their porch. When it finally all ended and there was no additional loss of life, I breathed a sigh of relief.

I've found it very interesting to read this thread and learn that my having breathed that sigh means I'm a fascist and a coward and a "pussy" and a police state cheerleader.

I don't know why it's being presented in this starkly either/or way. Some of us who live in this area actually have complex feelings about pretty much every element of what happened. We're not somehow divided into two camps, with "fascist", unquestioning cop-adorers on one side and on the other side, morally-superior defenders of liberty waving dismissively at the "mere teenager" suspect with one hand while flipping off the cops with the other.

I can't speak for anyone else, really, but I didn't see an "assault force" coming for me and I didn't see a "cavalry", either.

Thank you, though, Simulist, for trying to see things in a less judgmental light than some of the other folks around here. In fact, let me take this moment to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread without feeling the need to claim that everyone in Boston is an evil embracer of fascism.

Thanks so much for your comments. You make some notably important points, in my opinion — especially as regards the complexity concerning thoughts and emotions the people faced with these (and similar) events would naturally feel.

Much appreciated.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby conniption » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:41 pm

Alyxical wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else, really, but I didn't see an "assault force" coming for me and I didn't see a "cavalry", either.

Thank you, though, Simulist, for trying to see things in a less judgmental light than some of the other folks around here. In fact, let me take this moment to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread without feeling the need to claim that everyone in Boston is an evil embracer of fascism.


*

I'm sure most everyone in Boston had mixed feeling about the situation. There was really no choice in the matter, was there. We'd all have done/felt the same. I don't think anyone here is saying "Boston is an evil embracer of fascism." Far from it. Boston has just been severely fucked with.

As far as the "news" of cheering crowds...well they had "cheering crowds" in front of the White House after the killing of Bin Ladin as well. Or "cheering crowds" at the toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Iraq. In other words, if there had been a protest in Boston 10 blocks long following this incident, do you think it would have been on the "news"?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:05 pm

conniption wrote:
Alyxical wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else, really, but I didn't see an "assault force" coming for me and I didn't see a "cavalry", either.

Thank you, though, Simulist, for trying to see things in a less judgmental light than some of the other folks around here. In fact, let me take this moment to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread without feeling the need to claim that everyone in Boston is an evil embracer of fascism.


*

I'm sure most everyone in Boston had mixed feeling about the situation. There was really no choice in the matter, was there. We'd all have done/felt the same. I don't think anyone here is saying "Boston is an evil embracer of fascism." Far from it. Boston has just been severely fucked with.

As far as the "news" of cheering crowds...well they had "cheering crowds" in front of the White House after the killing of Bin Ladin as well. Or "cheering crowds" at the toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Iraq. In other words, if there had been a protest in Boston 10 blocks long following this incident, do you think it would have been on the "news"?


If you are suggesting that the crowds were fake, that the enthusiasm was fake...
If you are even suggesting that they could have been fake...
Let me assure you, in no uncertain terms:
That was all real.

I'm starting to think you actually believe it was a hoax.
Are you, by any chance, one of the people promoting that interpretation elsewhere?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:10 pm

Okay, this gave me a chuckle:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/21/report_ ... eak_again/

Granted, there may be a physiological real reason.
But come on...how funny is that?

Obviously, he can still write. Teach him sign language, if need be. Let him paint a picture.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby conniption » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:20 pm

FourthBase wrote:
If you are suggesting that the crowds were fake, that the enthusiasm was fake...
If you are even suggesting that they could have been fake...
Let me assure you, in no uncertain terms:
That was all real.

I'm starting to think you actually believe it was a hoax.
Are you, by any chance, one of the people promoting that interpretation elsewhere?


*

"If you are even suggesting that they could have been fake..."

I'm suggesting that if there were counter protests or reactions the odds are good we wouldn't hear about it because it doesn't fit into the script/storyline.

*

"Are you, by any chance, one of the people promoting that interpretation elsewhere?"

RI is the only place I post online. No Youtube. No Facebook. No Twitter. Nowhere else. Once I made a comment at the Outlaw's Blog. Maybe 10 years ago signed up to an ACOA forum, but never posted.

I'm done with this, for now. Someone else will have to carry on.

Take Care.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:35 pm

conniption wrote:
FourthBase wrote:
If you are suggesting that the crowds were fake, that the enthusiasm was fake...
If you are even suggesting that they could have been fake...
Let me assure you, in no uncertain terms:
That was all real.

I'm starting to think you actually believe it was a hoax.
Are you, by any chance, one of the people promoting that interpretation elsewhere?


*

"If you are even suggesting that they could have been fake..."

I'm suggesting that if there were counter protests or reactions the odds are good we wouldn't hear about it because it doesn't fit into the script/storyline.


No, you referred to the Saddam-statue-toppling crowds.
We here all know what that is meant to imply.
Cute, though. Your attempt to backtrack.
Must suck for you, getting caught.

*

"Are you, by any chance, one of the people promoting that interpretation elsewhere?"

RI is the only place I post online. No Youtube. No Facebook. No Twitter. Nowhere else. Once I made a comment at the Outlaw's Blog. Maybe 10 years ago signed up to an ACOA forum, but never posted.

I'm done with this, for now. Someone else will have to carry on.

Take Care.


Sure. Tell whomever your friends are that FourthBase says hello.
No, in fact, let's get personal, baby: Paul Chandler says hello.
He also says: It won't work, you won't get your way.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby conniption » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:38 pm

ffs
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby elfismiles » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:38 pm

Sunday, April 21, 2013
Did Watertown's top cop tell a big, big lie?
I'm not at all convinced that there was any larger conspiracy behind the Tzarnaev brothers. (Update: The FBI now says that there were others. More on that soon.) However, I'm increasingly convinced that some cops have conspired to cover-up their own itchified trigger fingers.

Many news articles have stated -- are still stating -- that elder brother Tamerlan was shot dead by the cops. But now we are supposed to believe a new story, which holds that Tamerlan was killed by his younger brother Dzhokhar.

The police chief, Edward Deveau, describes how cops nearly apprehended the older suspect, and were placing handcuffs on him in the middle of the street Thursday night, when the younger suspect came at officers in a carjacked SUV. The cops were able "to dive out of the way," and the younger suspect then continued to drive directly over his brother and dragging him through the street. That's how the older suspect died, according to the police chief.

The younger suspect eventually dumped the SUV and ran into the darkness of the night, according to the police chief.

In the first place, why would a guy in an SUV ditch the vehicle to run from the cops? Would you do that?

More importantly, if Tamerlan was killed because a car struck him, then how can we explain the morgue photo that shows at least one bullet hole in his body? I don't want to reproduce so gruesome a photo on this site, at least not in its entirety; you can see the image here.

But I can show you a close-up of what is clearly a bullet entrance wound. You can see how he bled out from it -- the blood trails first in one direction then in the other.

(The morgue photo also shows a large gaping hole cut into the left side of his chest, apparently made post-mortem.)

In a statement made before the Boston cops issued their revised account, one doctor who worked on Tamerlan was very clear about the cause of death:

Police took Tamerlan ­Tsarnaev to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center about 1:10 a.m. Friday. He was pronounced dead at 1:35 a.m. Dr. Richard Wolfe said the suspect had been hit by shrapnel from an explosion and that he had died from “a combination of blasts” and “multiple gunshot wounds.”

But after the cops issued their "Dzhokhar did it" yarn, the medical witnesses suddenly became frustratingly vague:

Dr. David Schoenfeld said 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev was unconscious and had so many penetrating wounds when he arrived at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center early Friday that it isn't clear which ones killed him, and a medical examiner will have to determine the cause of death.

The second bombing suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was in serious condition at the same hospital after his capture Friday night. The FBI has not allowed hospital officials to say any more about his wounds or condition.

Why not?

"From head to toe, every region of his body had injuries," he said. "His legs and arms were intact – he wasn't blown into a million pieces" – but he lost a pulse and was in cardiac arrest, meaning his heart and circulation had stopped, so CPR, or cardio-pulmonary resuscitation, was started.

Schoenfeld did not address police's assertion that Tsarnaev was run over by a car driven by his brother as he fled the gunfire.

Way I see it, even one bullet wound in Tamerlan's body damages the new "Dzhokhar did it" story. Do Boston's police officials actually expect us to believe that Dr. Wolfe was wrong when he spoke of multiple bullet wounds? How could a doctor examining a body possibly be mistaken about so basic a fact?

Recall that the initial reports held that Tamerlan had been captured alive -- a story which stayed in place for at least an hour. Several news outlets even published a photo of a naked man (allegedly Tamerlan) in police custody; we were later told that this was another fellow entirely.

The claim that Tamerlan was struck by bullets was made by journalists who spoke with police at the scene. Example:

Tamerlan went down fighting, hit by police bullets. According to the police he was wearing a suicide vest.

How could a cop know about the vest but not know about the guy being dragged down the street by an SUV?

There is no photographic evidence to substantiate the tale that one brother ran over the other, even though police cars often have video cameras, as do civilian cell phones. Journalists were on the scene; NBC had video of the firefight. Under those circumstances, how is it possible that we could be learning of so dramatic a development only now?

Let me once again make myself clear: I am not making any grand conspiratorial claims about the bombing itself. The comments above concern the conduct of the police -- nothing else. Perhaps I'm wrong; perhaps Deveau has an explanation that addresses all of the concerns raised above. Right now, though, I don't see how he can account for the photo of the bullet hole, and I don't see how he can brush aside the statement by Dr. Wolfe.

Other questions: Why was the MIT cop killed? If the brothers had no car, then how did they get to that location? Why does this report say that they stole the cop's cruiser and drove it to commit the 7-Eleven robbery -- a robbery which cops now say was committed by someone else? If they stole a cop car, why did they later hijack an SUV?

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2013/04/ ... lshit.html
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:40 pm

conniption wrote:ffs


Yeah, sucks, huh? For you.

That's what you get for pimping the mind-poison of Boston-hoaxdom on a board where I am.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:59 pm

I've searched through the first 63 pages looking for the two dudes with cowboy hats standing near the bleachers, one of whom was holding an American flag and the other is the fellow pinching-off the double amputee's artery. Any of you remember who posted it? Anyone with high-speed able to locate it for me? (I may have missed it while checking. It can take 5 minutes or longer for a single photo to load with my 28.8 dial-up.)
Any and all assistance will be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby General Patton » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:08 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:I've searched through the first 63 pages looking for the two dudes with cowboy hats standing near the bleachers, one of whom was holding an American flag and the other is the fellow pinching-off the double amputee's artery. Any of you remember who posted it? Anyone with high-speed able to locate it for me? (I may have missed it while checking. It can take 5 minutes or longer for a single photo to load with my 28.8 dial-up.)
Any and all assistance will be greatly appreciated.


It's the same dude, name's Carlos Arredondo.

Here's the Salon version that doesn't show the bone:
http://media.salon.com/2013/04/boston-m ... 80x960.jpg
штрафбат вперед
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:12 pm

I had assumed everyone knew who Carlos Arredondo is, by now. Guess not.
It's completely worth knowing who he is. Iamwhomiam, you especially.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibs ... 94748.html
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:24 pm

conniption wrote:
Russia Today

'Confusion and inconsistencies': How US plans to distract public from real truth about Boston

April 21, 2013

The initial questions about the Boston bombing are behind us, but former FBI employee Sibel Edmonds believes the pursuit of truth will eventually lead to a far more secret agenda by the US, which she reveals to RT.

The United States is having to quickly wake up to the possibility that Chechens are not the ‘freedom fighters’ Western media has been categorizing them as, especially when it came to the Republic’s relationship to Russia. But even the newly formed perceptions may not be enough when it comes to investigating the motives and planning behind the Boston bombing, according to Edmonds, who is also a founder of the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

With the dust somewhat settled after the capture of the younger suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Edmonds believes there will only be more unanswered questions in an investigation already plagued by obvious inconsistencies and falsities, which she recounts at length.

RT: We've learned in the last hour that Russia warned the FBI about the older Tsarnaev brother and his potential links with radical Islamists, but the FBI found nothing suspicious. How is that possible?

Sibel Edmonds: Actually, we predicted that the unnamed foreign country [Western media didn’t name the source immediately] was in fact Russia, two days ago. We have too little facts, too much false information and speculations. But just look at the period they are talking about. When you listen to the suspect’s mother, she’s talking about a period of three to five years. According to FBI officials, they received this information, this warning, in 2011. So we have that inconsistency right there. The other important inconsistency that we should pay attention to is the mother’s description of FBI mannerisms and conversation with the suspects and the family when they were visiting them for the last three to five years. That fits exactly the recruitment style of the intelligence community. When you go to the suspects, and one moment you’re saying “We know you’re decent, we know you’re doing nothing wrong, we know you’re good”, and the next minute they’re saying “You can be dangerous”, right after receiving that information from the Russian government, to threaten them with that information for what purpose – to recruit them as informants or for other agendas.

RT: We spoke to the mother last night. She said there is no way on earth they could have been involved in a heinous crime like this, that she knew everything about them and they could not have been potential terrorists. However, could there be another side to these people that they didn’t even let their mother know, is that not feasible?

SE: Well, again, we don’t have real information from our source in the last 48hours. I found out that they had been associating the brothers – especially the older one –with very wealthy individual Turkish persons, some of them students in Boston, some businessmen…really modern people. And we haven’t received any information that they [the brothers] had been associating with Chechens, even the radicals. So that itself is another major inconsistency in this story.

RT: Similarities are being drawn between the 'pressure cooker' bombs used in Boston and those which Al Qaeda gets English-speaking terrorists to use. Just how much does this prove in terms of the bombers' links with the terrorist group?

SE: Again, it’s way too early to comment on this and I think that whole notion right now sounds really, really weak. Because the US government, when it is convenient, one minute talk about how sophisticated Al Qaeda has become – in fact they’re as sophisticated as the NSA [US National Security Agency] – they are talking about their ability to obtain laptop, or suitcase bombs, nuclear bombs…and the next moment they are talking about this amateurish home-made ability. So, as far as the government is concerned, I think it’s too early to buy this either from the US media or the government.

This situation is really similar to the Bin Laden shooting. Every day the story changed. And this is what we are going to see in the next few days. They are going to change the story, they are going to throw so much confusion and inconsistencies and conflicting data that no one is going to figure out what actually happened, especially if the second suspect dies.

RT: There's been a tendency in the Western media to portray armed groups in the Chechnya as freedom fighters. Is that going to change at all after this?

SE: We all have to really look at the timing of this, because again the US media is portraying this incident by itself. It’s not putting it in the context of things that have been happening in the past – let’s say one year so – or recent stuff – we had this case of NGOs being shut down by the Russian government, which was a very smart move, because we know that the majority of these NGOs have CIA agendas, as they’re operated and managed by CIA people. And this is one way of infiltrating Russia by the US government, the CIA. And on the other hand, from this side, we had the 12 individuals from Russia, and what the US has done.

So, if you start putting these in context and also add the fact that Russia has been the biggest obstacle for the United States to get in and directly attack Syria – that’s when you start to see the bigger picture and that’s what the people should be paying attention to. And as far as the perception, up until recently you had individuals like Bolton, Armitage… in a group called The Friends of Chechnya, and they have been around for a while. Again, the false information that is being put forth by US media is that since the fall of the Soviet Union the United States has refrained from intervening in the Russia-Chechnya situation. And that is purely false. Since mid-1990’s, the US directly, or through Turkey has been arming, training, managing, orchestrating not only Chechens but also other factions in the region – and we are looking at Central Asia and the Caucasus. And of course the Russian government is fully aware of this.

RT: What about those resources?

SE: Alternative media has been waiting and reporting on this for years – the US operations in the region against Russia. And we are kind of puzzled in terms of the silence from the Russian government, because the FSB at any given moment can put a lot of information that would expose the fact that we actually are in the business of crating terrorists and bringing about terrorism in the region, as we have done for the last several decades in the Middle East, but especially since the fall of the Soviet Union – in Central Asia and the Caucasus. And again, there are tons of facts backing this up and there is much more in the hands of the Russian government, and I think this is a pretty good opportunity for some of this information to come out and enlighten the American public here in the United States.

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.


I was hoping Edmonds would weigh in on this. As usual, she's cautious and restrained giving that the knowledge of the situation is still evolving, but brings good insight to the table. I found this insight particularly chilling:

Sibel Edmonds wrote:"The other important inconsistency that we should pay attention to is the mother’s description of FBI mannerisms and conversation with the suspects and the family when they were visiting them for the last three to five years. That fits exactly the recruitment style of the intelligence community."


Again, this is really starting to smell like the 1993 WTC Bombing all over. Didn't the uncle also say he was sure someone converted the older brother here in the US, not abroad? Maybe this person knew some "Friends of Chechnya" to send Tsarnaev to visit.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:42 pm

FourthBase wrote:Okay, this gave me a chuckle:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/21/report_ ... eak_again/

Granted, there may be a physiological real reason.
But come on...how funny is that?

Obviously, he can still write. Teach him sign language, if need be. Let him paint a picture.


Hey whaddya know. Good news. Again.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metro/Bo ... index.html
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