"Secret History of Freemasons"; Ritual Weirdness

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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:28 am

freemason9 wrote:
We are into mathematics and geometry. I happend to see deep meaning in those sciences.


Would you agree with the notion that Washington DC was created, through street layouts and other means by Masons to be some sort of celestial symbolic "as above, so below" city? Sacred Geometry has been long noted as a key component of the layout of DC, along with Egyptian mystery.

I think FourthBase, as much as we agree on a lot, is in a wrong place to attack you like that. I mean there's a lot I don't agree with Catholicism but Im not going to attack it.

I believe most Masons are upstanding people, tho they should recognize *how* freemasonry has been used

Also, I still find it intriguing that everyone from Masons to Christians to Satanists seem obsessed with King Solomon and Solomon's temple.
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:32 am

Heh, Im intrigued by what Kultleader said...kind of an "open source esotericism for ones own path"...like Linux.
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Washington, DC

Postby philipacentaur » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:39 am

Do you know that David Ovason became a Freemason, 8bitagent?

Also:

As chief designer of the new national capital, L'Enfant quickly antagonized the three commissioners in charge of making sure the place got built. When they complained, he alienated his principal supporters, including George Washington, who reluctantly fired him.

He spent the rest of his life dunning Congress for back pay, as lean and ragged as the dog that trailed him through the streets.

When L'Enfant died in poverty in 1825 his obituary called him "an interesting but eccentric gentleman."

Most people supposed that was the end of Pierre L'Enfant.
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Source: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/l-enfant.htm
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Re: Washington, DC

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:50 am

philipacentaur wrote:Do you know that David Ovason became a Freemason, 8bitagent?

Also:

As chief designer of the new national capital, L'Enfant quickly antagonized the three commissioners in charge of making sure the place got built. When they complained, he alienated his principal supporters, including George Washington, who reluctantly fired him.

He spent the rest of his life dunning Congress for back pay, as lean and ragged as the dog that trailed him through the streets.

When L'Enfant died in poverty in 1825 his obituary called him "an interesting but eccentric gentleman."

Most people supposed that was the end of Pierre L'Enfant.
--
Source: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/l-enfant.htm



Well regardless, his legacy stands today

Image


...just a big "coincidence" Im sure
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Postby philipacentaur » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:54 am

I would appreciate if you'd at least attempt to respond to my question and its implications.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:05 am

But what do the Freemasons today actually know, Kultie?
They know how to keep shit secret. What else?
What else do they know that we don't know?

Also, funny you mention no automatic kindness for those cults.
I have an automatic antipathy (a learned, justified antipathy IMNSHO).

I'm not so sure about the demise of secret societies. I'd like to think you're right, that the future of secrecy is bearish. Secrets are generally not a good thing, and I think life tends toward abolishing secrecy. I'm hoping the same will apply to rituals. Not that I would like to see a world without rituals. But at least let's have group rituals that don't take themselves seriously as ritual, that don't take ritual seriously, period. Religions that don't take their precepts to be gospel, their notepads to be scripture. And if there really is a deep human need for ritual, a deep need for religion, then it will manifest itself individually, in private, and it should be mostly kept to oneself to protect it from being misapplied, misappropriated, overstated, exploited. I respect humble religion, personal religion, personal rituals. Religions should treat as a cardinal sin the ambition to spread religion and persuade vast quantities of people conform to one way. That would be the sign of a special religion, one that nearly prohibited its own memetic/tenetic transmission. But instead, what is the case? The opposite: Most religions cast meme-transmission conquests as a fucking holy virtue, even as the most noble and sacred virtue! LOL! Evangelists become fucking saints! When they're usually metaphysical parasites, mental bacteria multiplying, yearning to devour all other frames of mind, being exterminators themselves of competing ways of thinking. And what has made such a fucking terrific vehicle of that holy meme war? Rituals. Getting the body to literally cave, fold into the mind through habits. Ritual is a resistance depressant. That can be a good thing, especially in private, because existing as a super-sentient primate can be exhausting. Take bathing for instance. One could wash oneself in a significantly different sequence every day, it's possible, trust me. But people develop individual rituals of bathing, some of it passed on as good advice (a lot of it having to do with not contaminating the body with shit), some of it improvised along the way, and those rituals make the task of washing oneself mentally easier, more efficient. Perhaps there are people who take constitutional baths, to be more in touch with how wonderful it is to be a human, to be alive. Now, that's a form of ritual, bathing, which is good and natural and honest. If you don't have a ritual when bathing, then you wind up thinking a little bit more about what you're doing, but that's okay you're still bathing and still tied to a physical sense of who you are, and can appreciate all of what a ritualistic bather can appreciate. Imagine bathing as a church ritual, though. Not baptisms, but everyday bathing and showering. How degrading would that be. It's just not something that should be ritualized as a group. Why? Why should anything be ritualized as a group?

But for the most part, ritualization is just another way that the meme species has developed evolutionarily to persist in human society, to devour other memes and strut atop the dung pile. Ritual is a meme species's exoskeleton. Memes aren't all bad. I mean, they're inescapable. Any and every thing that is worth knowing and intellectually appreciating about life is experienced through the medium of memes. But bad memes are the bane of humanity. Bad memes, bad ideas. Memes enslave us. Rituals are central to the meme army's advancement. Sure, there's some casualties, and some change. But rituals, chants, symbols, codes, fantasies, myths, threats, scripture...that's the best way for a meme species to propagate successfully, smoothly, with a good signal-to-noise ratio, generation to generation. Cults. Rituals. Memes.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:24 am

4B, your understanding of the underlying mechanisms of ritual is poor.
Last edited by theeKultleeder on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:24 am

kool maudit wrote:^ this guy shouldn't be getting away with these ad hominems.

this forum is full of little warriors.


Oh please. Who the fuck are you?

I think FourthBase, as much as we agree on a lot, is in a wrong place to attack you like that. I mean there's a lot I don't agree with Catholicism but Im not going to attack it.


And why the fuck not, 8bit???? It deserves intellectual hostility!!! Catholicism itself sure is fucking hostile to rational thinking, so I'm not sure why rational thinking needs to pay it any respect let alone be polite. Same goes for Freemasonry. Let's cut the fucking shit, we don't need to perform an intellectual curtsy to these freaking abominable institutions just because they're wicked old and people suckered into them take them deadly serious. Fuck that. I know people whose lives were ruined by Catholicism. Not merely by priests, but by the tenets of Catholicism. Catholicism is hostile to life. Freemasonry's rituals are full of positively asinine reasoning and bizarre "seals" to their secrecy oaths, secrey oaths which are themselves a tool of fundamentally bad (some of it evil) behavior. Freemasonry is bad for humanity. I don't care if Benjamin Franklin was a Freemason. Scientology is bad for humanity. I don't care if Beck is one. Catholicism, Judaism, Islam...I don't care who has been what, it's all bad for this world, bad for humanity. Extremism and competitive annihilation are inevitable traits at the head of every system of religious dictates based on irrational memes which want to take over the world. People around the world need to wake the fuck up, soon. There's not much time. A species of primate led by insipid and self-destructive dogma but, almost like a feverish toddler given a loaded handgun, in possession of multiple technologies that could each annihilate all of humankind in quick order. There's really no time for pleasantries, courtesies, or any of that gratuitous happy horseshit.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:25 am

theeKultleeder wrote:4B, your understanding of the underlying mechanisms of ritual are poor.


ORLY? Explain.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:27 am

Ritual makes some magic work.

You don't have to agree 4B, but that doesn't stop it working.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:40 am

Okay, so the minute degree to which rituals are physically useful to the ritualized, supposedly happens to be in the way of paranormally affecting the fabric of existence? Is that what I'm being told? That's not supposed to make rituals something to admire and help perpetuate by silent assent, is it?
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Postby philipacentaur » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:53 am

What do you propose should be done about Freemasonry? Let's get down to it.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:06 am

philipacentaur wrote:What do you propose should be done about Freemasonry? Let's get down to it.


I don't know. It should be mocked mercilessly and justifiably, for starters. Recruits should be embarrassed to join it, not proud. Terrified of joining it, actually, considering the weight behind their secrets and oaths. Everything secret about it which can be discovered about it legally should be discovered and disseminated and if it meets a wall of indifference/resistance, re-disseminated. If you're talking legal action? Probably targeting the oaths and how they conflict with other loyalty oaths? RICO maybe? I've been occupied with how Freemasonry is a problem, not how to solve it. You got any ideas?
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:50 am

FourthBase wrote:Okay, so the minute degree to which rituals are physically useful to the ritualized, supposedly happens to be in the way of paranormally affecting the fabric of existence? Is that what I'm being told?


Pretty much yep. Tho some people might argue about the minuteness of the effect.

For a non paranormal effect tho, try thinking about 911 as a ritual that was imposed on people, and the effect thats had on the US populace, and other populations round the world.

I dunno about Freemason riituals tho. They are pretty weird. I dunno what paranormal effect they'd have either. They seem a bit old and dated and lacking the necessary tension.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:59 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
FourthBase wrote:Okay, so the minute degree to which rituals are physically useful to the ritualized, supposedly happens to be in the way of paranormally affecting the fabric of existence? Is that what I'm being told?


Pretty much yep. Tho some people might argue about the minuteness of the effect.


I understand you're talking about rarely-practiced rituals which have an intensely real effect. I meant that most rituals in the world don't paranormally affect the fabric of existence at all, unless there's some paranormal side effect in the ritual of brushing one's teeth, making coffee in the morning...or walking up a church aisle, repeating a few words, and letting an old man stick a wafer in your mouth. As far as I know, there is no paranormal power within those everyday rituals. It's just a very normal social and psychological power, enacted upon the ritualized.

For a non paranormal effect tho, try thinking about 911 as a ritual that was imposed on people, and the effect thats had on the US populace, and other populations round the world.

I dunno about Freemason riituals tho. They are pretty weird. I dunno what paranormal effect they'd have either. They seem a bit old and dated and lacking the necessary tension.


Thank you Joe, for again stating the obvious!!! Sincerely!

They are pretty weird. I might say pretty fucking weird...
But they are certainly weird, with or without the profane modifier.
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