Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:58 am

Thanks chump, you are the morning light of my day.

I don’t understand quite where this author is coming from, but the last two paragraphs make a lot of sense.


Regrettably, this area of consciousness studies has been neglected by scientists (although artists have been involved with it since art began). I cannot claim to be more than an amateur myself. All the same, I will not hold back from telling you my own main conclusion from a lifetime's interest in what consciousness does. I may shock you by what may seem the naivety of my conclusion (I've shocked myself): I think the plain and simple fact is that consciousness—on various levels—makes life more worth living.

We like being phenomenally conscious. We like the world in which we're phenomenally conscious. We like ourselves for being phenomenally conscious. And the resulting joie de vivre, the enchantment with the world we live in, and the enhanced sense of our own metaphysical importance have, in the course of evolutionary history, turned our lives around.


I listened to the rest of the Ishwar Puri video and found the time spent to be quite worthwhile. His exhortation to listen for the sound behind the eyes is an intriguing ‘trick’ for getting past some of the verbiage of our minds. Ishwar’s notion that mind is a tool of consciousness rather than consciousness being a by-product of mind is spot on.



It would seem that our understanding is always mediated through form. The forms derive meanings through associations with other forms via intellectual structures that provide correspondences between the various forms. Some very wise folk seem to feel a need to ‘return to the One’, so as, it seems to me, to transcend inherent limitations of this form based world.

My opinion, and this is not said simply to be the contrarian that will fulfill your image of me, is that these otherwise very wise folk are wrong.

I feel that they take one part of ‘the great project’ and claim it as being the whole thing.

The first part of ‘the great project’ is for the soul to reach for spirit. Many people do this quietly and in many ways during the course of mundane life. Others have formulated a bit more of a fast track for refining the ‘spiritual impulse’ and along the way have come to advocate for the soul to disavow physical attachments.

But, if everything vibrates and resonance is a significant element in how the possibilities within reality play out over time, then it may be that ‘soul energy’ is better spent trying to become a proper receptacle for spirit, here and now like, rather than going on about the inherent limitations illusions and injustices of Maya.

We create the openings for Source to feed our imaginations with all varieties of soul reaching for spirit, hell even the atheists do it. But we pervert the message according to the pretences of our minds. Ishwar Puri says that the mind is a tool of consciousness. Then the mind does not ‘have’ consciousness and we did a deep brainwash on ourselves when society accepted Descartes dictum of “I think, therefore I am” rather than the equally plausible ‘I am therefore, I think. It’s more likely that consciousness uses the mind to assist evolution. By creating ‘meaning’ as the OP author suggests perhaps.

Potential expressions of consciousness evolve. Freud, Jung and Reich show us potential gains from integrating the various layers of psyche. Many innovators help mind evolution along as imagination seeks to create new correspondences (connections) for our field of categories (forms).

Its my opinion that if we become welcoming vessels for spirit, then the ‘greater works’ might be fulfilled and ‘spirit’ will inform us with progressively deeper levels of understanding.

The ‘lesser works’ are critical to making space for the ‘greater works’, but the real fireworks start if we choose to light the fuse for the greater works to commence.

Peace and Happy New Year
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:06 am

This one is for you HoL, and for the HoL in anyone else for that matter.

A worthy six pages of Pdf.



http://facta.junis.ni.ac.rs/pas/pas2009/pas2009-05.pdf

FACTA UNIVERSITATIS
Series:
Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology and History
Vol. 8, No1, 2009, pp. 55 - 60
THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE SOUL AND THE LOGOS
IN HERACLITUS' FRAGMENTS
UDC 1 Heraclitus
Sladjana Risti
ć
Gorgiev
Faculty of Philosophy, Niš, Republic of Serbia
E-mail: slabra@eunet.rs
Abstract
.
In Heraclitus' teaching, the concepts of the soul and the logos are interrelated.
According to Heraclitus, the soul is a part of the omnipresent logos and fire, and the
essence of the individual soul is reflected in its ability to get closer to logos. The world of
logos and eternity is the law that all shall bow before, whether or not they are aware of it
in this life. What logos is for cosmos, mind is for man. The principal moral of Heraclitus'
Fragments is subjection to the laws of the mind and harmonization of all life with logos.
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Questioning Consciousness? Welcome to Life

Postby Allegro » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:57 am


^ Welcome to Life
Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
~ Timothy White (b 1952), American rock music journalist
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:08 am

Thanks Allegro.

I read an essay a few weeks ago that could well have used this video as its source.

It came to the obvious conclusion that Trans-humanism requires the full acceptance of brainwashing as a social good.

Modern mental expressions create the room needed to for ideas such as trans-humanism.

Current forms of skepticism also contain the seeds for the total negation of liberty. By asserting a-priori (begging the question) the non-existence of the ineffable, skeptics try to impose a (faith based) agenda that effectively keeps our attention focused toward objects (and their manipulation) rather than relationships, a more, say, natural field of play for consciousness.

Consciousness would seem to be more appropriately found at the beginning of the causal chain rather than at its end, as is the current fashion.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Saurian Tail » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:02 pm

Sounder » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:08 am wrote:Consciousness would seem to be more appropriately found at the beginning of the causal chain rather than at its end, as is the current fashion.

Building on that observation, it would seem that perhaps the most effective way to approach the issue of consciousness is to reverse the direction of exploration from without to within ... going to the source rather than fixating on the shadows flickering on the cave wall.
"Taking it in its deepest sense, the shadow is the invisible saurian tail that man still drags behind him." -Carl Jung
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Ben D » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:09 pm

^^ That which seeks is this which is sought, and that which is sought is this which seeks. - Zen saying
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:06 am

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/interview-r ... ction-188/
An Interview with Randy Mabe – “Astrotheology: Fact or Fiction?” – #188




Published on Jan 5, 2014

Randy Mabe joins us for this episode, titled "Astrotheology: Fact or Fiction?". This episode is being released on Sunday, January 05, 2014, and was recorded December 27, 2013.

Randy Mabe has been a Real Estate Appraiser for over 20 years.
He has a Bachelor's degree in Business Administration with an emphasis in Real Estate. He also has 2 Associates Degrees one in Accounting and the other in Computer Science.
Recently, Randy has gone back to school and has taken the following classes:

Mythology
World Religions
The New Testament
Ancient Egypt
Astronomy

After watching Part 1 of the Movie Zeitgeist, Randy began an intense study of Religion and Astrotheology.

This study includes watching/listing to nearly 4 hours of documentaries every working day. Basically, by working out of the home and as he types real estate appraisals he listens to documentaries on youtube.

One night while sitting in a hot tub, Randy noticed something in the stars, it was a cross. Shortly after that Randy made a connection between the quatrains of Nostradamus and Astrotheology.

So, after 4 years of taking college classes, reading books and watching documentaries Randy is here on Gnostic Media to present the following theory:

That Nostradamus did not predict Hitler, Napoleon or any future events. What Nostradamus is really trying to tell us is that the Astronomy of 2012 is the astronomy for the greatest story ever told, or the bible narratives.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Allegro » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:22 am

Saurian Tail » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:02 pm wrote:
Sounder » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:08 am wrote:Consciousness would seem to be more appropriately found at the beginning of the causal chain rather than at its end, as is the current fashion.
Building on that observation, it would seem that perhaps the most effective way to approach the issue of consciousness is to reverse the direction of exploration from without to within ... going to the source rather than fixating on the shadows flickering on the cave wall.
Ben D » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:09 pm wrote:^^ That which seeks is this which is sought, and that which is sought is this which seeks. - Zen saying
Hi, All. For me, at a moment of thought about consciousness, what comes naturally is ‘I am all of it’, simultaneously, and that’s where listening to and remembering harmonies and melodies brings all of it quickly together, in a manner of speaking.

I cannot for the life of me begin to satisfactorily describe consciousness and intuitive tendencies by dividing them into words; lyrical and other metaphors haven’t worked well, either, for me. So, expressions of the ineffable catalyze through unseen vibrations, I’m pretty sure, in and around my presence and others’ near or far from mine. And, I could change my mind about how I’ve said what I’ve said :). All becomes a little tricky when putting words to it.

~ A.
Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
~ Timothy White (b 1952), American rock music journalist
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:01 pm

I like how you express your feelings through your images, Allegro.

your additions to the "images only thread" are generally awesome.

I hope you excuse my taking advantage of your visually presented insights by my own interjection with a few, personally intended captions.

In the midst of your own images is a wonderful place for my own thinking to exist.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:40 pm

Spoeaking of captions, I thought I'd throw this idea in here, since it seems pretty pertinent to this discussion.

Image
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Consciousness

Postby Allegro » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:40 pm

Thank you, slimmouse :) who wrote on Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:01 am.

For me, the film wasn’t about aliens, but this scene has been unforgettable: tones and rhythms—heard and felt, or not—by way of consciousness are communication as in playing musical instruments, remembering musical phrases, singing, reading aloud, conversing, laughing, all of which are tonal and rhythmic. Just a thought.

Image
I know, I know. Someone erased :wink: the caption on this image.
Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
~ Timothy White (b 1952), American rock music journalist
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby slimmouse » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:15 pm

Only one real place for this video. An hour long, 3 guests. A few select quotes for anyone who doesnt have the time,

There is a crack ( a crack ) in everthing
Thats how the light gets in

- Leonard Cohen



consciousness is not a matter of complexity, its a matter of coherence


Science shouldnt be about belief, it should be about following the evidence


(Reminds me of Jakells qoute from Crowley)

And based upon such evidence ,

The gentler the magnetic activity, the less the interference with psychic ability



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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:52 am

This board used to talk a lot about pseudo-skeptics, and the wide sway of their reductionist materialist dogma.

Is it just me, or has popular - ummmmm - consciousness begun to quietly shift on this topic in the past few years? (Inspired in part by the looming futility of the coming fruits of neuroscience and AI once hailed as a holy grail to be.)
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby LilyPatToo » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:01 am

tapitsbo wrote:This board used to talk a lot about pseudo-skeptics, and the wide sway of their reductionist materialist dogma.

Is it just me, or has popular - ummmmm - consciousness begun to quietly shift on this topic in the past few years? (Inspired in part by the looming futility of the coming fruits of neuroscience and AI once hailed as a holy grail to be.)


I would love to see the board return to that discussion. When I first began to post here, it was such a relief to find an intelligent and discerning group of people with an interest in the odd things that fascinated me. Not True Believers, but questioners whose minds were as open and inquiring as Jeff's. But then there definitely was a shift. And not in a good direction. It's not just that I had a personal reason to want to know more about the true nature of consciousness, but also I wanted to be able to understand the adamant, don't-need-to-look-at-the-evidence pseudo skeptics' stance better too. And that isn't going to happen if the group dynamics includes too many of those voices and they're dismissive in a sufficiently authoritative way.

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby guruilla » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:37 pm

LilyPatToo » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:01 am wrote:I would love to see the board return to that discussion. When I first began to post here, it was such a relief to find an intelligent and discerning group of people with an interest in the odd things that fascinated me. Not True Believers, but questioners whose minds were as open and inquiring as Jeff's. But then there definitely was a shift. And not in a good direction. It's not just that I had a personal reason to want to know more about the true nature of consciousness, but also I wanted to be able to understand the adamant, don't-need-to-look-at-the-evidence pseudo skeptics' stance better too. And that isn't going to happen if the group dynamics includes too many of those voices and they're dismissive in a sufficiently authoritative way.

LilyPat

Hi LP. Have you been following the discussion around gender? (There's a whole cluster of threads now, the main one is "What's your gender?" but it seems to have moved now to the "everybody loves feminists" thread, which is curious in itself.) Anyway, one of the ways in which I'm finding it hard to participate in it is that my main interest and focus is the psyche, i.e., consciousness, what happens to it when it becomes fragmented through trauma, and how our ideological beliefs are hardwired into the identity that is formed through this fragmentation (what Lloyd de Mause calls our social alters).

From my perspective, to try and explore and eventually map social reality (which RI is mostly geared toward doing) requires looking at how our identities are formed (identity politics!), those being the same identities that are trying to do the mapping! This means looking, or at least trying to look, beyond the identity and the ideology, at what the ground of our being is that these social alters were forged out of. All roads lead to the question of consciousness, i.e., the psyche. Yet at RI (and in most conversations outside of spiritual groups), it is very hard to introduce this element into the discussion without it seeming to be (and maybe being) another ideological perspective, and an especially "woo" one.

So then it gets delegated to a separate thread, where it can float around without the grittier context of social reality to ground it. The result is that rubber and road rarely get to meet. Rigor is used to banish intuition, and vice versa.

Probably not very eloquently expressed, as i think this tension is in myself right now, so it's difficult to find a position within my own consciousness to express from.
What's my social alter today?? :starz:
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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