One Giant Leap ... for Conspiramedia?

[American Dream]

psynapz wrote:

He owns Genesis Communcations Network, does he not?

8bitagent wrote:

One thing thats never been positively answered, is whether
Alex Jones' GCN Genesis Network is the same Genesis Network that
Adnan Kosshoggi formed...the notorious arms runner-Iran Contra-Jackie O former lover-deep state operative-terror financier of the deep state.

[JackRiddler]

.

One reason that it's always deja vu all over again is that people never, ever seem willing to give up disinformation once they've swallowed it, no matter how completely baseless it proves to be.

Condemning Alex Jones for his wanton exploitation and thus parasitic destruction of what was once the "9/11 Truth Movement"

need not go together with

believing every piece of bullshit that Hopsicker confabulated straight out of his ass in his personal campaign to defame, destroy and discredit that movement (apparently to punish all those who chose Ruppert as the original movement pope, rather than Hopsicker).

Read again how the litigation-conscious Hopsicker (back in 2004!) phrased his suggestion of a link between Kashoggi and GCN: he has no reason to think they're actually related, but he does enjoy thinking of them as "kissing cousins."

Well, that should be good enough, right?

If there was any ownership connection whatsoever, you can be certain that a journalist who (like Hopsicker) specializes in uncovering documents of corporate ownership would have done better than vague insinuations based on the common use of an English word. There is no connection between Kashoggi and GCN, or Kashoggi and the leaders (or "leaders," if you prefer) of the 9/11 truth movement, either then or now, and Hopsicker knows it. That's why, five years later, he hasn't produced a shred of evidence for such a connection: so as not to endanger the continued reproduction of this insinuation by the cut-and-paste brigades. The John Gray defamation is also completely Hopsicker's own invention. There is no Kashoggi connection, and there is barely even a John Gray connection. John Gray indeed briefly wanted to support the movement financially, but broke off the connection, no doubt thanks in large part to how his tentative initial moves were met with a flood of lies and attacks from Hopsicker and Nico Haupt among others. Mission Fucking Accomplished, boys.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Walter, despite an initial period where he at least put a few thousand into constructive activities like the first Zogby poll, proceeded to pump MILLIONS into the most naked and lowest-common-denominator disinformation campaigns available to him, especially the works of von Kleist. And yet many of the same hyperparanoids who swallowed Hopsicker's fables about Kashoggi, GCN, Ruppert and Gray wholesale applauded Walter as a hero and patriot for handing out free DVDs of footage from In Plane Site. Goes to show something...

.

[Sweejak]

It was Daniel Hopsicker, afaik, who first insinuated that rumor, simply on the basis of Kashoggi often using the term Genesis.

Oh yeah, now I remember. When I looked into it a long time ago I found nothing, no connection.

Did Hopsicker ever back off, apologize or nail it down?

I think Ted Anderson owns GCN.

[Percival]

Joseph A. Ball — the principal author of the Warren Commission report — represented Khashoggi in his 1980 divorce from Soraya Khashoggi after the death of her second husband, Jackie Kennedy was romantically involved with Khashoggi, Khashoggi’s daughter Nabila, his former wife Lamia Khashoggi, formerly Laura Biancolini, and Ali Khashoggi are high level members of the Church of Scientology.



http://www.dockersunion.com/phpbb/viewt ... 49871d309a

[8bitagent]

Well I stand corrected on the Kashoggi-Alex Jones GCN controversy.

However a long while back I realized that as nice as people Kevin Barret, David Ray Griffin, Jim Fetzer, Dave Kleist may be, is there much of a difference between these debunked red herring talking points they posit and that of the Bollyn/Hufsmind/Nico Haupt crew?

When Paul Thompson and Kevin Fenton lay out hard hitting undebunkable evidence that many of al Qaeda's top operatives have been financed and safeguarded by America's close business partners in the middle east(and covered up for by Washington), why doesnt THAT get any traction
in the conspiratainment circle?

Kudos to whoever said "Alex Jones Clown Hour".

Joseph A. Ball — the principal author of the Warren Commission report — represented Khashoggi in his 1980 divorce from Soraya Khashoggi after the death of her second husband, Jackie Kennedy was romantically involved with Khashoggi, Khashoggi’s daughter Nabila, his former wife Lamia Khashoggi, formerly Laura Biancolini, and Ali Khashoggi are high level members of the Church of Scientology.



http://www.dockersunion.com/phpbb/viewt ... 49871d309a

Kashoggi is like the Forrest Gump of the deep state world.

[8bitagent]

Of course Hopsicker and Rupert are not infallible, but I find their body of work re: 9/11 and deep state/drug connections to be much more worthwhile than the "drone pod planes hit the towers/missile hit the pentagon/mini nuke at the WTC/shanksville crash was staged" crowd.

[Searcher08]

One of the things that is so exasperating about trying to research 9/11 is that quite quickly you come across people like Nico Haupt - who early on did remarkable detective work in exposing the multiple versions of Atta and Jarrah and much more. Since then, frankly the guy seems a bit err.. loopy. Did he become a no-planer?
Chris 'Joooz Joooz' Bollyn - again what a mixed bag. Friend of Eric "Everyone is a disinformationist except me!!" Huffscmid, then not. Flees country after being beaten up by cops. ZZzzzzz.......
Bollyn's latest research is interesting enough to read, especially his angle on ptech, which looks at it's connections with Guardium, so a different angle from Indira Singh. Approach cautiously, with waffle filter = ON.

[compared2what?]

There's not any very persuasive reason to think that they were forged. Or that they weren't. The only thing you can say with certainty about the authenticity of those documents is that it's not ascertainable because they were copies rather than originals. Which is exactly what the linked article does say, as a matter of fact. It just says it in an extra-Byzantine way. Which might be an interesting augury wrt to what CBS is going to have to admit to under oath, albeit as far on the whispy side of "might be" as it's possible to go without just crossing over into totally arbitrary speculation.


Which is not to say either that they mightn't have come from GOP operatives, or that they were authentic. There's no conclusive evidence on either of those points. (As far as I'm aware, there's no evidence at all on the first one, but it's sure as hell possible.)

Oh, these documents are "genuine forgeries" alright, and were shuttled to CBS by one of the slimier of GOP dirty tricksters (Roger Stone, who got his start as one of Donald Segretti's 'rat fuckers' in '72 and crowned his career by staging the infamous "Brooks Bros. riots" in Miami-Dade in E2K--an event he now regrets given what resulted from it).

As for the docs: (this is from memory--too early to start googling) The personal sec. to Junior's unit-commanding general made several claims about the material given to CBS: first, she never typed them (and she would have been the only person who would have). Second, the language (syntax, sentence structure, wording, etc) were radically different from how her boss actually spoke or gave dictation. These points were brow-beaten into the public consciousness by the M$M until CBS/Rather were totally discredited. But there was a third thing she said--which wasn't reported by the M$M at all: that the CONTENT of the docs (Bush was an AWOL slacker w/discipline--among other--problems; his CO wanted him transfered out of his unit, dismissed from the service altogether, or brought up on charges) were 110% accurate and true.

Junior's handlers knew the original docs. were toxic and couldn't be hidden forever. So they went pre-emptive by retyping them with obvious errors that could become the focus of the 'controversy' rather than the actual facts--in effect, they repackaged the truth as a lie, and got CBS to buy it (either literally or figuratively). And having Stone's greasy fingerprints all over them (as factorum between the Bush campaign and CBS) seals the deal for me (i've followed his career from its inception, as we're both Jersey boys of the same age--i have a vague recollection of having met him once, before he became famous).

You may be right. But I did some pretty extensive original reporting on this point, the specific details of which I very sadly can't share. However, fwiw, although my primary focus wasn't actually the authenticity or provenance of those documents, but rather one or both of two much more consequential fires that some of the smoke they generate obscures, per the absolutely best impartial due diligence that I had it in me to do:

Practically the only thing about any part of any of the stories in the same general vicinity as those documents that it was possible to say with total confidence was that their provenance and authenticity couldn't and was never going to be established. In fact, to go way, way back into the minutiae of ancient history, it was when I was still just reading the initial fall-out coverage and idly contemplating the possibility that these might simply be facts that were too heavily obscured for any gainful information attached to them to be knowable that I first caught a distant glimpse of what turned into the whole other story that I totally failed to report well enough for it to be, um.....reportable.

I mean, the one doesn't rise or fall on the other. Those dox could be exactly what you say they are, and the thing I was interested in looking at would still be there. Dancing around while it taunted and mocked me for all my numerous inadequacies and failures. Which doesn't exactly put it in very exclusive company, to be honest. That's just show business. So it's not like I have a dog in this hunt, in that regard. They absolutely could be oppo forgeries, for all I know. But I don't know, although I made a serious effort to.

Hence: Really? What makes you certain it was Roger Stone? Because if it was, that would actually have implications that aren't at all evident in the part of the picture I'm familiar with. Which naturally makes it just about the most fascinating thing to me imaginable in the whole wide world. Hope springing eternal and all that. I'd love it if there were a new avenue to explore.

[8bitagent]

One of the things that is so exasperating about trying to research 9/11 is that quite quickly you come across people like Nico Haupt - who early on did remarkable detective work in exposing the multiple versions of Atta and Jarrah and much more. Since then, frankly the guy seems a bit err.. loopy. Did he become a no-planer?
Chris 'Joooz Joooz' Bollyn - again what a mixed bag. Friend of Eric "Everyone is a disinformationist except me!!" Huffscmid, then not. Flees country after being beaten up by cops. ZZzzzzz.......
Bollyn's latest research is interesting enough to read, especially his angle on ptech, which looks at it's connections with Guardium, so a different angle from Indira Singh. Approach cautiously, with waffle filter = ON.

That's whats so bizarre. Some of the most earliest, most keen eyed
true 9/11 researchers of the 2001-2004 period regarding the hijackers/al Qaeda financing/etc would later end up becoming the psychotic no plane
and Jew hater crowd. I can think of a number of such cases.

Also, Bollyn did some good writing on Ptech, but he seems to dismiss the Arab aspect and goes right for the Israeli angle. Why not look into both?
He also did an interesting article on the Fuji Bank/Marsh and Mclenlan spots the two planes hit at the WTC.

[Sweejak]

The memos. Buckhead. Lucy Ramirez.

I spent some time with Burkett's lawyer. Both he, Burkett and Rather think it was a trap. "The proportional spacing problem is extremely obscure and extremely difficult to notice - none of CBS' several experts noticed it. Could Buckhead, who is not a document analysis expert or typography expert, notice the proportional spacing problem on his own within a mere couple of hours after the 60 Minutes broadcast? Not on your life."

The original internet poster on the CBS memos, 'Buckhead' (I sometimes get my B's and F's mixed up too)

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2004/09/bloggergate.html

[marshwren]

You may be right. But I did some pretty extensive original reporting on this point, the specific details of which I very sadly can't share. However, fwiw, although my primary focus wasn't actually the authenticity or provenance of those documents, but rather one or both of two much more consequential fires that some of the smoke they generate obscures, per the absolutely best impartial due diligence that I had it in me to do:

Practically the only thing about any part of any of the stories in the same general vicinity as those documents that it was possible to say with total confidence was that their provenance and authenticity couldn't and was never going to be established. In fact, to go way, way back into the minutiae of ancient history, it was when I was still just reading the initial fall-out coverage and idly contemplating the possibility that these might simply be facts that were too heavily obscured for any gainful information attached to them to be knowable that I first caught a distant glimpse of what turned into the whole other story that I totally failed to report well enough for it to be, um.....reportable.

I mean, the one doesn't rise or fall on the other. Those dox could be exactly what you say they are, and the thing I was interested in looking at would still be there. Dancing around while it taunted and mocked me for all my numerous inadequacies and failures. Which doesn't exactly put it in very exclusive company, to be honest. That's just show business. So it's not like I have a dog in this hunt, in that regard. They absolutely could be oppo forgeries, for all I know. But I don't know, although I made a serious effort to.

Hence: Really? What makes you certain it was Roger Stone? Because if it was, that would actually have implications that aren't at all evident in the part of the picture I'm familiar with. Which naturally makes it just about the most fascinating thing to me imaginable in the whole wide world. Hope springing eternal and all that. I'd love it if there were a new avenue to explore.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/18/122051/247

Make of it what you will...i'm quite satisfied Stone's fingerprints are all over this (btw: Nydia is the second, trophy wife),

[compared2what?]

The memos. Buckhead. Lucy Ramirez.

I spent some time with Burkett's lawyer. Both he, Burkett and Rather think it was a trap. "The proportional spacing problem is extremely obscure and extremely difficult to notice - none of CBS' several experts noticed it. Could Buckhead, who is not a document analysis expert or typography expert, notice the proportional spacing problem on his own within a mere couple of hours after the 60 Minutes broadcast? Not on your life."

The original internet poster on the CBS memos, 'Buckhead' (I sometimes get my B's and F's mixed up too)

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2004/09/bloggergate.html

Col. Burkett was in a truly impossible position, owing to the reckless faxing habits of CBS news employees, the poor man. It's a small-scale human injustice as human injustices go, but nonetheless an absolute one that he was. The CBS people probably would have gone down anyway, but at least they knew (or should have known) that might be the ticket they'd bought. Whereas Burkett just totally took the fall for their unprofessional failure to protect his anonymity as they'd said they would. And that was just, like, a negative-triple-A league error on CBS's part. Typical. For television, anyway.

I mean that it was totally podunk for CBS not to immediately and completely remove the headers showing the dox had been faxed from a Kinko's in Abilene before they handed them on to anybody else, for those whose memory of long-ago eensy details may not have been refreshed recently. It was because of that podunk slip-up that Burkett was so easily outed.

I mean, Abilene's kind of a One-Bush-National-Guard-Service-Critic town. They might as well have just put his name on them.

[cptmarginal]

It was Daniel Hopsicker, afaik, who first insinuated that rumor, simply on the basis of Kashoggi often using the term Genesis.

Oh yeah, now I remember. When I looked into it a long time ago I found nothing, no connection.

Did Hopsicker ever back off, apologize or nail it down?

I think Ted Anderson owns GCN.

Thank you guys for clearing this up. I noticed when reading this in 2004 that he was choosing his words carefully, so it was no problem for me at the time to be an Alex Jones listener as well as reading his site. (These days, I can barely muster the attention for 5 minutes of it)

Here's a quote from the accusation:

“From their base in Tampa Florida, Khashoggi and El Batrawi controlled a network of companies, all using the word “Genesis” in their name. The number of Khashoggi-owned Genesis companies we’ve found keeps growing. There is, or was, Genesis Aviation, Inc., Genesis Aviation II, Genesis Diversified Investments, Genesis Studio and Production Corp., Genesis Media Group, Genesis Properties, Genesis Intermedia; GenesisIntermedia.com.; Genesis Delaware; Genesis Florida… The list, it do go on. And on.”

…

And then there’s the Genesis Communications Network. There’s actually two of them, seemingly unrelated, but they’re so extremely similar in the fraud department to each other and to “Saudi Genesis” that the relationship appears strongly familial. We’re still uncertain as to how close they all are; kissing cousins, at the very least.

The first GCN is a so-called “patriot” network hosting Alex Jones and Dave Van Kliest, the, ah, the individual fronting for the latest See the Flash extravaganza, advertisements for which are spamming the Internet at a rate that must be causing concern among conservationists of our digital landscape of ‘1’s and ‘ 0’s.’

VanKliest is our pick for Disinfotainer of the Year… an especial honor, considering that there was some fierce competition. Of course, “See the Flash Dave” from the powerhour, like Alex Jones, is part of the GENESIS Communications Network.

So apparently he was insinuating that the two "Genesis Communication Networks" (the other being in Tampa, Florida - supposedly Adnan Khashoggi's base of operations) have some relationship between them.

Of course Hopsicker and Rupert are not infallible, but I find their body of work re: 9/11 and deep state/drug connections to be much more worthwhile than the "drone pod planes hit the towers/missile hit the pentagon/mini nuke at the WTC/shanksville crash was staged" crowd.

Yep. I'm just watching, with a long attention span. If the FBI was to suddenly release information discrediting everything Hopsicker has been doing up until now in Florida (versus the almost-zero information they've given up to this point, with any mention of Venice carefully omitted) I'd be even more interested in the situation and the things it would imply

[Sweejak]

a negative-triple-A league error on CBS's part

Ok, here is part of my correspondence.

Let me add the following, on my honor as ...

Bill Burkett did not forge any documents. Bill Burkett did not create any
documents. Bill Burkett did not make any claims about the validity of the
documents. Bill Burkett insisted that CBS make sure the documents were
authentic before using them. Bill Burkett did not go to CBS, it came to him.
Bill Burkett did not seek publication of the documents. There is a real
living source who gave the documents to Bill - unsolicited by him. Bill
promised the source that he would not reveal his or her identity, and he is
not going to break that promise. The media will continue to hound him, the
Rove machine will continue to publicly insult him, but he is not going to
divulge that name, because to Bill Burkett a promise is a promise is a
promise, no matter how much personal grief it causes him to honor the
promise.

By the way, regarding the faxing of the documents from the Kinko's in
Abilene. The first time Bill ever heard of documents being faxed from the
Kinko's in Abilene was when he read about it in the Washington Post. The 60
Minutes producer is the person who used the Kinko's to fax the documents to
another party. Bill had to figure this out by calling the producer to find
out. Dan Rather and the rest of CBS readily acknowledge to Bill that this
sloppy action was their doing.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Joseph A. Ball — the principal author of the Warren Commission report — represented Khashoggi in his 1980 divorce from Soraya Khashoggi after the death of her second husband, Jackie Kennedy was romantically involved with Khashoggi, Khashoggi’s daughter Nabila, his former wife Lamia Khashoggi, formerly Laura Biancolini, and Ali Khashoggi are high level members of the Church of Scientology.



http://www.dockersunion.com/phpbb/viewt ... 49871d309a

I love the Painters and Dockers, both the band and the (mildly) corrupt union that should still be around, but sometimes the stuff on that website makes me cringe.

Some of it is good tho.