Catch 'em Young: AIPAC Subversion of the USG

[MacCruiskeen]

Whatever happens to this thread, and to this board, I want to put three things on the record, because it is good to have things clearly stated and out in the open:

1. I have never asked for 17Breezes to be banned, neither on this board nor by PM nor by any other method. I am not even requesting it now. Banning is not the only way to moderate, or to deal with trolls; nor is locking threads.

2. I have never asked any of the mods to "win my arguments for me", as barracuda recently insinuated I had done. (Jeff entered the thread for the very first time to applaud this remark.)

3. I have had no* private communication with Jeff or any of the moderators this year, until five minutes ago, and they instigated it.

Just so that's clear.

*On Edit: Checking, I now see I had two brief exchanges with barracuda in Jan. and Feb., both of them friendly and neither of them having anything to do with trolls, bannings, or any such thing.

[Nordic]

I want him to be banned. The main reason I come exclusively here, and nowhere else these days, is because people like this tool have parked themselves on every other forum out there, to the point where the other forums have become completely intolerable. Which means the trolls are winning. Which is simply wrong.

It would be nice if someone gave a damn enough about this place to keep that kind of shit from happening here. Because now it's happening, and nobody's doing anything about it, except scolding those of us who would like this place to be kept a little oasis of humanity. There are almost none of them left.

How much more of a "fuck you" can this fool give this board, and its owner, than his last post?

[nathan28]

Mac, I'm prone enough to heavy-handed moralizing tantrums in real life that I know no one listens to them except the people who listen to them, who are usually demented to begin with. And I"m not looking for a career as "armed prophet," (hey, look, comma inside the quote, so American) So forgive me my attempt to minimize that on my part here.

There is only one other poster on my ignore list, whose obtuse, inconsistent and inchoate racism and apologism for everything from police abuse to depleted uranium babies to harassment of left-leaning social aide groups in my mind amounts to a permanent case of bad faith, either wittingly or through incompetence, on that poster's part.

Also, I can read 17Breezes's comments in quotes, which is the only terms I'm willing to deal with them. "Arab imperialism" shows such a profound disregard for empirical history that it boggles the mind. Forgive me for outsourcing the work of engaging with it. But unlike the_last_name_left, 17Breezes doesn't throw out choice bits of flame-bait enough for it to be worth engaging.

And, of course, the Alice & Jack Show started on page one, too. I made my sympathies clear in that regard.

Which is part of his point. TLNL actually seemed to care about the crap he (?) was baiting everyone with, enough that he took his own bait. 17Breezes is here to annoy you intermittently. It's far more disruptive, because he's (?) at a distance. He's here to say stupid shit about "Arab imperialism" like it's the Ninth Century CE or something. That would be almost as stupid as calling a client-state of an imperial power, Israel, an "empire." He lives in anti-history. The problem is it's not one I really understand. Teabaggers have the decency to barely disguise their racist motivations and their Koch Institute funding, which makes them easy targets. 17Breezes is some dude who has embraced his own "counter-knowledge" of the exact sort conspiracy theorist face accusations of embracing. I have no idea how it is possible to look at present circumstances and speak of an Arab imperial power. None. It's absurdity.

On the other hand, you engage in national stereotypes yourself quite frequently. Hey, I even watched two hours of TV this week so far.

[MacCruiskeen]

christ, another two-and-a-half hours in here...

An American stereotype of my acquaintance once told me that time is money. At this very moment I am proving that his statement is not necessarily true.

[Nordic]

christ, another two-and-a-half hours in here...

An American stereotype of my acquaintance once told me that time is money. At this very moment I am proving that his statement is not necessarily true.

Time is money but sometimes it's incredibly cheap.

[Jeff]

It would be nice if someone gave a damn enough about this place to keep that kind of shit from happening here. Because now it's happening, and nobody's doing anything about it, except scolding those of us who would like this place to be kept a little oasis of humanity.

Nordic, not to be skullduggerish about it, but not everything pertaining to this board happens on the board.

I've sent 17breezes a warning re his last post. I don't suffer fools gladly, but I do suffer fools, at least for a while. In the meantime, make our jobs easier by watching your own posting habits.

[Nordic]

It would be nice if someone gave a damn enough about this place to keep that kind of shit from happening here. Because now it's happening, and nobody's doing anything about it, except scolding those of us who would like this place to be kept a little oasis of humanity.

Nordic, not to be skullduggerish about it, but not everything pertaining to this board happens on the board.

I've sent 17breezes a warning re his last post. I don't suffer fools gladly, but I do suffer fools, at least for a while. In the meantime, make our jobs easier by watching your own posting habits.

Thanks Jeff. Will do.

[JackRiddler]

christ, another two-and-a-half hours in here...

It's worth it if you're writing great stuff, which you, sir, sometimes really do! (Sometimes is very often compared to average.) Not so much if it's for flame wars.

In another age I had pen pals. Wrote extremely long letters all day long. This is like that, but with more pen pals and a Grand Central Station of people who just step in and out.

One of my favorite cartoons, by the way. We could all use it.

[MacCruiskeen]

Thanks, Jack. The same back in spades. Thanks for the PM too, I'll reply to it later. As for my intended new thread about Israel & Palestine, I now don't honestly know if I'll have the time or the energy for it any more, because I'm busy and the topic is such a minefield. I want to avoid those mines (the double binds especially) without ignoring them. Refusing to ignore them is one good way to avoid stepping on them. In any case, it's rarely a good idea to rush through a minefield, because even if you succeed in not exploding you can easily end up getting shot.

So, later.

[AlicetheKurious]

I want to avoid those mines (the double binds especially) without ignoring them. Refusing to ignore them is one good way to avoid stepping on them. In any case, it's rarely a good idea to rush through a minefield, because even if you succeed in not exploding you can easily end up getting shot.

Nobody's ever been shot here, or lost a limb in a mine explosion as far as I know, and I should know. It's just a discussion board, a place for the exchange of knowledge and opinions. Those aren't explosions you're hearing, Mac. They're just farts. Hold your nose, go where your brain and your heart lead you and don't let them scare you off. I'm looking forward to knowing what specific subject your thread will be about.

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm looking forward to knowing what specific subject your thread will be about.

Oh, please don't hold your breath, Alice, because god knows it's not going to be anything earth-shaking. I've just been trying (and failing) to think a bit about patterns of argument and rhetorical traps and emotional manipulation and thoughtstopping tools and crazy-making ways of communicating or of killing communication. The Double Bind and all that. But I really have to get some other work done right now, because I've just taken on something that's going to demand most of my time and energy for the next three months, plus there's other stuff I've been neglecting. So maybe I'll manage to post some of my Deep Thoughts about these thorny issues in a week or so, if ever. (They'll all be stolen from Gregory Bateson & R.D. Laing & Mark Kaplan anyway.)

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

[MacCruiskeen]

From Mark Kaplan's Notes on Rhetoric :

Criticism of Israel: Concede that of course, in principle, criticisms of Israel are not necessarily anti-Semitic. Give the impression that this is so obvious as hardly to be worth mentioning. Having got this out of the way, every particular criticism of Israel can be exposed as implicitly anti-Semitic.

http://notesonrhetoric.blogspot.com/

[Simulist]

Those "notes on rhetoric" are absolutely fantastic, Mac.

I knew one woman (elsewhere) who may have used most of those tactics in a single post one day.

[stefano]

Thanks for the Jack Handey quotes, too.

[AlicetheKurious]

Those "notes on rhetoric" are absolutely fantastic, Mac.

I'm still going through them. They are fantastic. And funny.