"Big Bamboozle" 9/11 Truth Author And Family Found Dead

[JackRiddler]

I mean, there was a war going on. We're not talking about delivering air mail.

This is assumptions either way.

What's the guy's recruitment story? Who's read his book? I haven't, and now I want to, but no time for many days ahead. (In almost all cases, you can only assign such works to "easily dismissable" or "possibly credible," as that's the nature of claims and research from and about spooks.)

Even for spook work Iran-Contra is on the shadowier side, the activity was generally illegal and in part unauthorized or tolerated to the extent that knowledge of it would not filter up to the head criminals. In such environments there's no iron law about who gets recruited by whom for what reason, and surely the recruiter's perception of whether a recruit can be trusted to keep his trap shut comes as the first concern, before questions of competence. This also a realm of sociopathy and violence, within a larger culture that glorifies revenge stories and makes heroes out of serial killers, long as they're on "our" side, like "the greatest American sniper" RIP. This guy could be wrong about 9/11, he could be lying about a lot of things, and yet if he was involved in this milieu he could have become somebody's target for obscure or unfathomable reasons. A demonstration killing isn't necessarily demonstrating for us, or for the general public.

In short, I see no plausibility obstacle to formulating a spook murder hypothesis in this case (as opposed to murder-suicide). We also have no idea, and we're not going to see 100%-authenticated crime scene evidence released for independent forensic examination. So unless it turns out his 9/11 solution was actually right, we'll never know.

.

[dqueue]

Mayhap he participated in Mena as a decoy pilot, without a need to know on cargo or other ops? Reference Terry Reed's Compromised. Therein, Reed describes practicing flying formations with Seal with the intent to elude or deceive radar.

Sorry. Didn't see the above before I posted. But yes. Great minds. He might have flown drugs domestically.

That doesn't account for the special-activities division claim. And I do find that pretty hard to believe. considering how few jobs the CIA/DEA would have had for pilots; the military or military-esque conditions they had to fly under; and how many pilots with extensive experience doing exactly that in Vietnam there were rattling around looking for work and/or thrills in the early '80s. But it is a partial explanation.

Caveat: I can't assess Terry Reed's credibility. Admittedly, some demonize him as a whole-cloth fabricator.

That said, I vaguely recall Reed describing "working for the CIA" without directly working for the CIA. He was proxied through Seal, or another party introduced by seal. When his shit hit the fan, he found he wasn't really working for CIA. It's possible the Special Activities Division was fabricated to bring in unwitting participants, thus lending a feeling of importance, at the same time encouraging operational security.

[compared2what?]

I've been studiously avoiding dealing with that ever since I got peeved at Marshall for bragging about his work on Iran-Contra. My first take was immediately that maybe he's lying about his involvement, or at least the extent of his involvement. The photo of him with the Lear and his publicist's comments (he claims to have seen flight logs) kinda pushed that out of my thoughts. But he is a publicist, after all. If he's not being completely truthful, it would remove a chunk of the reasons I wasn't happy with Marshall in the first place. And truth be told, I had formed a bit of an attachment to the unhappiness.

Although that sort of background does usually suggest that the person it belongs to is a particular type of jack-ass, I think you might have leapt to a conclusion on that score. The Little-League coaching and "Free Sean Payton" campaign stadium fly-overs don't really go with it.

[justdrew]

this is where he says the pilot-hijackers received training on 'the big birds'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinal_Airpark

[compared2what?]

In short, I see no plausibility obstacle to formulating a murder hypothesis in this case.

Not an obstacle to it, no. But a rigorous examination of same does have to take into account how likely he would have been to be in a position to know the kind of very closely held operational secrets that spookdom might have killed him for wanting to tell. And imo, the odds of anyone having enough firsthand operational experience to know that sort of shit without either having had any prior qualifications for it or going on to have the kind of career for which they come in handy after he'd acquired them are pretty low to begin with. I mean, most people who know secrets that dangerous as a result of having done extremely secretive and dangerous work are professionally trained to take steps to guard against getting themselves and their children slaughtered like sitting ducks while hanging out in their comfortable and undefended suburban homes, by definition.

So his extreme youth and inexperience relative to all known Iran-Contra players of appropriate insider standing isn't something you can just brush away with an oh-who-knows-spooks-do-all-kinds-of-shadow-y-stuff gesture. They actually do make the hypothesis somewhat less plausible than it would be if his credentials were well attested to and non-anomalous. Come on.

[Hunter]

this is where he says the pilot-hijackers received training on 'the big birds'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinal_Airpark

I live exactly 8 miles from that airpark, it is pretty much out in the middle of the desert nothing else out there and the locals have always suspected it is some sort of CIA hub/training facility, everyone around here suspects that and talks about it and you can plainly see a lot of those black copters coming and going at all hours from that area. I have no doubt that this is indeed where all or some of them were trained because we know that many of them were showing up at local mosques near the University of Arizona which is just 10 miles down Interstate 10 from this airpark. It was widely reported that they were attending mosque here in Tucson, which is the nearest metro area to the airport (ten miles) the leadup to the attacks.

[justdrew]

this is where he says the pilot-hijackers received training on 'the big birds'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinal_Airpark

I live exactly 8 miles from that airpark, it is pretty much out in the middle of the desert nothing else out there and the locals have always suspected it is some sort of CIA hub/training facility, everyone around here suspects that and talks about it and you can plainly see a lot of those black copters coming and going at all hours from that area. I have no doubt that this is indeed where all or some of them were trained because we know that many of them were showing up at local mosques near the University of Arizona which is just 10 miles down Interstate 10 from this airpark. It was widely reported that they were attending mosque here in Tucson, which is the nearest metro area to the airport (ten miles) the leadup to the attacks.

he says the FBI (or whatever) reports (in the public domain) show the pilot-hijackers traveling out to the desert on a regular basis and then 'vanishing' out there for 3 days at a time. The tail couldn't/didn't bother to follow them once they got into the desert apparently. It's covered in the sept 8 C2C appearance 'cuda posted back on page 2 or 3.

hopefully someone will flip the ebooks into the pirate world soon, there's not much reason to buy them now. He was trying had to sell though, I do think he was a bit desperate for some income, lawd only knows how much he blew on the "free payton" stunts.

---

since you live in the area, what the heck is the deal with that Red Rock place just north of it? Looks like a quite the Village...


oh and... it looks like route 86 to 85 west from Tuscon is a remarkable drive through a huge desert wilderness, is it a nice trip?

[barracuda]

More murder-suicide details

Written by Sean Janssen, The Union Democrat February 06, 2013 10:23 am
It may be impossible to know why Philip Marshall killed his own two children last week.

Autopsies completed Tuesday on the 54-year-old author and pilot, son Alex, 17, and daughter Macaila, 14, revealed no new information, according to a spokesman for the Calaveras County Coroner’s Office.

The preliminary finding of single gunshots to the head in each case held up as a cause of death.

It could not be determined precisely when the deaths occurred. The children sent out text messages late Thursday night, but the grisly scene at their Forest Meadows home was not discovered until Saturday afternoon.

The time of the discovery, 3 p.m. Saturday, will be listed as the official time of death.

A toxicology screen of Philip Marshall will be conducted and results are expected in four to six weeks.

Calaveras County Sheriff’s Office investigators did not find any sort of note at the home and none could be found on the person of Philip Marshall or his victims before the autopsy.

Sheriff’s Sgt. Chris Hewitt said Tuesday that investigators did determine the 9mm Glock semiautomatic handgun used in the crime had been registered to Philip Marshall.

In many regards, Marshall fit the profile for the perpetrator of a murder-suicide.

In a recent study, Johns Hopkins University researcher Jacquelyn Campbell found that 70 percent of such cases occurring throughout 12 U.S. cities were preceded by domestic violence.

Ninety-one percent of perpetrators were men, 88 percent used a gun and most were white, according to Campbell’s research.

Custody battles, financial collapse and deteriorating physical or mental health are common factors in this type of crime, wrote Richard Gelles, professor and dean of the School of Social Policy and Practice at the University of Pennsylvania, in an email Tuesday.

“My quick read (of news clips) and my experience suggests he might have been in a downward spiral of mental illness,” Gelles said.

Hewitt said any information on Marshall’s mental health revealed in the investigation will not be released, nor could he say whether any medications were discovered at the home.

A report of domestic violence involving Marshall was made in December 2008.

He allegedly slapped Erin Chamberlain, the sister of his estranged wife, Sean Marshall, in the face during an argument with both women about custody of Macaila.

Philip Marshall was arrested and briefly taken into custody but no charges were filed.

About a month before that incident, on Nov. 11, 2008, Philip Marshall called police to allege his wife had illegally entered his Forest Meadows home two months after their separation earlier that year and taken pills for which she did not have a prescription.

Court records state Marshall told a deputy who responded that afternoon that Sean Marshall entered the house “while he was hiding in the shower with a video camera.”

He told police she went straight for a bottle of six 20-milligram pills of Kadian, an extended-release morphine medication prescribed for patients who have shown a tolerance for similar opioid painkillers.

During the response, Sean Marshall drove up and was arrested, the records stated.

She told police she took the pills and hid them in a tree so she could give them to her lawyer.

The Calaveras County District Attorney’s Office charged Sean Marshall with petty theft, trespassing and possession of drugs without a prescription.

Court records show the case continued in the Calaveras County Superior Court while she attended Alcoholics Anonymous and/or Narcotics Anonymous meetings. After providing an attendance card at a Sept. 28, 2009, hearing, all charges against her were dismissed.

Sean Marshall filed for a divorce from her estranged husband in October 2012 with no hearings set in the case until Feb. 25.

Statistics show murder-suicides most often target the perpetrator’s spouse as a victim. Sean Marshall had been traveling in Turkey when notified of the loss, according to a Sheriff’s Office statement.

“Some of these murder suicides are designed to punish the other spouse,” Gelles noted, even if that person is not killed.

Financial troubles do not appear to be a factor. According to county records, the Sandalwood Drive home where Philip Marshall resided was not in foreclosure and taxes were current on the property. The house was refinanced in July, and the couple had taken out a $235,000 home equity loan in 2006.

Philip Marshall had been a commercial pilot for about 20 years before leaving that career for unknown reasons. He published several books claiming to have flown as a contract pilot for the CIA and Drug Enforcement Agency and to have uncovered a Saudi-American plot to perpetrate the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

“We’re unaware of any information that would substantiate Mr. Marshall’s claims,” CIA spokesman Preston Golson wrote in an email Tuesday.

Hewitt said the investigation conclusively showed Philip Marshall as the shooter, but that he could not reveal any further details in that regard.

Whether the full details of the crime are ever revealed or not, those who sympathize with Marshall’s theories about a malicious covert government will likely never be satisfied.

By Tuesday afternoon, numerous websites were positing theories and hosting anonymous posts suggesting that covert operatives were to blame for the tragic loss of life that struck a quiet community.

Those grieving locally were finding more productive ways this week to remember Alex and Macaila Marshall.

A candlelight vigil is scheduled for 7 p.m. today on the quad at Bret Harte High School.

A bereavement fund for the siblings has been set up at the U.S. Bank branch in Angels Camp. Donations can be made out to Alex and Macaila and mailed to the bank at 580 S. Main St., Angels Camp, CA 95222. The donations will go toward the memorials and a student annual scholarship for Bret Harte High School.

The funding will consider students who are involved with the promotion of mental health awareness and gun control regulations in the community, according to organizers.

Donations to the bereavement fund will be accepted in lieu of an entry fee at a dance scheduled to follow the Bret Harte-Calaveras basketball game Friday at Bret Harte High School.

For more information about the fund, call Veronica Stow at 530-574-1129.

[JackRiddler]

In short, I see no plausibility obstacle to formulating a murder hypothesis in this case.

Not an obstacle to it, no. But a rigorous examination of same does have to take into account how likely he would have been to be in a position to know the kind of very closely held operational secrets that spookdom might have killed him for wanting to tell.

Alternatively, secrets or actions that sufficed to piss some motherfucker off enough to desire revenge or to wish to render an example. Inexperience, incompetence, willingness to talk and a touch of bluster are compatible with fucking up that way. The secrets he might have revealed that merit a killing might not be the important-sounding ones he fronted. They might be old and obscure.

And imo, the odds of anyone having enough firsthand operational experience to know that sort of shit without either having had any prior qualifications for it or going on to have the kind of career for which they come in handy after he'd acquired them are pretty low to begin with.

How would you know?

I mean, most people who know secrets that dangerous as a result of having done extremely secretive and dangerous work are professionally trained to take steps to guard against getting themselves and their children slaughtered like sitting ducks while hanging out in their comfortable and undefended suburban homes, by definition.

(Note bolding.) Assumptions. Sufficiently overwhelming force, planning and surprise give the advantage to attackers. I mean, what you're saying would work both ways. As he's out of the game (assuming he was in it), the attackers presumably would be the ones with the surveillance advantage.

So his extreme youth and inexperience relative to all known Iran-Contra players of appropriate insider standing isn't something you can just brush away with an oh-who-knows-spooks-do-all-kinds-of-shadow-y-stuff gesture. They actually do make the hypothesis somewhat less plausible than it would be if his credentials were well attested to and non-anomalous. Come on.

There are plenty of low-level people playing anomalous roles whose known and visible qualifications need not astonish us.

Anyway, we're playing a game of assigning probabilities to scenarios where various scenarios are possible and precedented, and none are yet provable as we have no direct evidence. Sort of like if I assigned a higher probability to your being more ready to consider a spook murder hypothesis if he had been mouthing off about Scientology than you are in this case. I can't know that for sure, it's just Bayesian reasoning in a vacuum, right?

I enjoy playing the game both ways.

[BrandonD]

Thought you guys would be interested to see this post on Above Top Secret, started by someone who was apparently close to the victims. He comes off as a genuine person:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread923848/pg1

[justdrew]

Thought you guys would be interested to see this post on Above Top Secret, started by someone who was apparently close to the victims. He comes off as a genuine person:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread923848/pg1

thanks much

---

and I can't resist a little joke: Clear he was rubbed out buy the Saffron cartel (more expensive than gold by weight).

---

but yeah, odd, he was still in business with the wife, import business? that's news

[82_28]

What are the odds that some kid who sounds like the same age as the deceased boy was up to speed on posting this tale on Above Top Secret above all other venues?

Don't answer. Just curious as in curiouser and curiouser.

[Hunter]

this is where he says the pilot-hijackers received training on 'the big birds'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinal_Airpark

I live exactly 8 miles from that airpark, it is pretty much out in the middle of the desert nothing else out there and the locals have always suspected it is some sort of CIA hub/training facility, everyone around here suspects that and talks about it and you can plainly see a lot of those black copters coming and going at all hours from that area. I have no doubt that this is indeed where all or some of them were trained because we know that many of them were showing up at local mosques near the University of Arizona which is just 10 miles down Interstate 10 from this airpark. It was widely reported that they were attending mosque here in Tucson, which is the nearest metro area to the airport (ten miles) the leadup to the attacks.

he says the FBI (or whatever) reports (in the public domain) show the pilot-hijackers traveling out to the desert on a regular basis and then 'vanishing' out there for 3 days at a time. The tail couldn't/didn't bother to follow them once they got into the desert apparently. It's covered in the sept 8 C2C appearance 'cuda posted back on page 2 or 3.

hopefully someone will flip the ebooks into the pirate world soon, there's not much reason to buy them now. He was trying had to sell though, I do think he was a bit desperate for some income, lawd only knows how much he blew on the "free payton" stunts.

---

since you live in the area, what the heck is the deal with that Red Rock place just north of it? Looks like a quite the Village...


oh and... it looks like route 86 to 85 west from Tuscon is a remarkable drive through a huge desert wilderness, is it a nice trip?

Yea like I said, it is well documented that at least 8 of the hijackers were attending the Mosque right down the street from the University of Arizona and that Mosque is a very simple right down interstate 10 from the airport, about ten miles, ten fifteen minute drive tops. When going to the airpark you take an I-10 exit ramp then down about one mile down a paved road to a secure fenced off and highly secured dirt road, then you drive about 5 miles down that dirt road deep in to the desert and there is the airpark, its not a huge place but very secure and has a lot of various kinds of buildings and hangers as any airpark would, I know many local pilots and they have never used that airpark even though it would be an idea place to land a small private plane for someone who lives locally to Tucson. And every one of them I have spoken to over the years as well as regular people not in the airline industry, seem to very casually suggest that it is a federal government operation and specifically used by the CIA for training purposes, so this all makes sense that they were there,, documented to be attending mospue at the nearest metro area etc. In fact this guy is the first person I have ever read about who connected Pinal Airpark with 9-11 and it makes perfect sense with everything else that has been documented about the hijackers time in Arizona in the few months leading up to the attacks.

[JackRiddler]

Yea like I said, it is well documented that at least 8 of the hijackers were attending the Mosque right down the street from the University of Arizona and that Mosque is a very simple right down interstate 10 from the airport, about ten miles, ten fifteen minute drive tops.

Please document, I'm having trouble recalling.

[Hunter]

this is where he says the pilot-hijackers received training on 'the big birds'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinal_Airpark

I live exactly 8 miles from that airpark, it is pretty much out in the middle of the desert nothing else out there and the locals have always suspected it is some sort of CIA hub/training facility, everyone around here suspects that and talks about it and you can plainly see a lot of those black copters coming and going at all hours from that area. I have no doubt that this is indeed where all or some of them were trained because we know that many of them were showing up at local mosques near the University of Arizona which is just 10 miles down Interstate 10 from this airpark. It was widely reported that they were attending mosque here in Tucson, which is the nearest metro area to the airport (ten miles) the leadup to the attacks.

he says the FBI (or whatever) reports (in the public domain) show the pilot-hijackers traveling out to the desert on a regular basis and then 'vanishing' out there for 3 days at a time. The tail couldn't/didn't bother to follow them once they got into the desert apparently. It's covered in the sept 8 C2C appearance 'cuda posted back on page 2 or 3.

hopefully someone will flip the ebooks into the pirate world soon, there's not much reason to buy them now. He was trying had to sell though, I do think he was a bit desperate for some income, lawd only knows how much he blew on the "free payton" stunts.

---

since you live in the area, what the heck is the deal with that Red Rock place just north of it? Looks like a quite the Village...


oh and... it looks like route 86 to 85 west from Tuscon is a remarkable drive through a huge desert wilderness, is it a nice trip?

DREW that is indeed a very beautiful area and drive, I have driven it many times in my life. Also not sure what Red Rock place you are talking about, there are many. To the North would be SEDONA that is the most famous area and of course is home to a lot of new age and UFO types being that the Native Americans who settled the area claim that some of the red rock mountains in the area are spirtual vortexes. It is just a gorgeous place and unfortunately quite expensive to live there, it is where Mccain has his vacation home and he is very out of place there being that the place is really made up if real liberal hippy new ager types with lots of stores, cafes and businesses catering to that crowd.

Cool place to visit if you ever get the chance and just a few more miles north is the city of Flagstaff which itself is gorgeous and then a few more miles is the Grand Canyon.