Fixed Flat Earth?

[DrEvil]

A question for the Flat Earthers: How do you explain ships coming over the horizon? If the Earth is flat you should see the whole ship the whole time, right?

And if ships come over the horizon (which they do, really. I've seen it with my own two eyes!) that implies curvature, so what holds in the oceans? Why haven't they gone off the edge? Is there a wall? Are we on the back of a giant turtle or four very large elephants?

[JackRiddler]

A question for the Flat Earthers: How do you explain ships coming over the horizon? If the Earth is flat you should see the whole ship the whole time, right?

And if ships come over the horizon (which they do, really. I've seen it with my own two eyes!) that implies curvature, so what holds in the oceans? Why haven't they gone off the edge? Is there a wall? Are we on the back of a giant turtle or four very large elephants?

Engagement obviously isn't going to make a difference, haven't you read this thread already? This is extreme trolling -- as Willow agrees, and it appears she left! -- unforgivable stupidity (very unlikely!), or declaration of an identity, as Luther said.

[divideandconquer]

the vid '200 proofs of a flat earth' is a cut above the rest - some of the geometry/curvature/distance arguments are doing my head in.

beg pardon - 200 proofs earth is not a spinning ball

[zangtang]

some genuinely intriguing stuff, but as you can imagine it falls away at the end (theres a joke in there)
and damned if he doesn't end up blaming.........The Jews!

[Elvis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBv3_0j0y_4

[divideandconquer]

some genuinely intriguing stuff, but as you can imagine it falls away at the end (theres a joke in there)
and damned if he doesn't end up blaming.........The Jews!

Perhaps he is controlled opposition because blaming the Jews is an effective way to discredit yourself and therefore whatever it is you're preaching, exposing, etc. ...or perhaps not.

[stoneonstone]

Looking around, there seems to be a huge rift developing right now, between Eric Dubay, and the NASAChannel guy Matthew Boylan, about the controlled opposition aspect - that Dubay is extremely well spoken, thoughtful etc., but is an apologist for Hitler's Germany and a holocaust denier, and that Boylan is really pissed that that is going to completely discredit the questions of earth model.

A really bizarre, circular, but still legit summary is Boylan's https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... DOKWF0cm9c

Some fucked up, simple-minded fans/hangers on, but the question is still valid, apart from the rants, talking to hear oneself, and support group aspects.

Anyway, I don't know if Dr Evil was being genuine or not, but the model presented of the edge being an ice wall all around the outer edge of the disc, and that the huge expanse is 'mapped' as the coastline of Antarctica. What first caught my attention was the number of early explorations and expeditions that were multi-year in nature. Seemed like a long time. I intend to check out that, and citations that daily, ships in the south, were greatly out of reckoning everyday...meaning that there were model errors in what they were working under.

Not a buyer of this, but always remember the long exploration blocks even as a kid (onie who was really fascinated by explorers and discovery in school) and thought that was odd. But now, seems plausible with the disc model. Ring magnet seems more probable than bipolar oblate spheroid (or are we pear-shaped now?) model...though all publick images I've seen are of a perfect sphere.

So....who knows?

But from zero to 120 mph is what the whole issue has gone to, in just weeks. How why where who?

[JackRiddler]

So not just Apollo but also Mercury/Gemini were faked, right? And I guess the very high altitude flights running from the 50s to today. And obviously the Mars missions, actually all the probes and satellites, Voyager, Pioneer, Galileo, Hubble. And the ten thousand satellites. And the GPS. Every time it knows where you are, all your nav systems, all fake. I mean, these all have in common that they involve the gubmint or the corporations in the development, so nuff said. All fake! And going back to Magellan. Insidious!!!

You see how this works as a trolling, right? They're going to get most of us doing the same style of mockery as the "Skeptics," and never mind that it's justified. Or else, coming up with rules that can never be limited to the extremes (as with the no "no-planes" and no fascists rules), but will have to become increasingly restrictive because the variations and modulation in nonsense keep coming to force the mapping and demarcation of all possible mental territory (kind of like how the state itself grows, how markets grow, etc.) It's perfect.

[stefano]

Oh come on, backtoiam. If you make a fool of yourself in public some people are going to point and laugh. I'm not usually among the pointers and laughers, but d&c made a fool of himself in a way that I found really funny. And interesting, since we're talking about epistemology.

You know nothing about gravity, plasma, or anything else.

No. I do know about quite a lot of sciency things, and that didn't just happen. I read about them, and read about how innovative (non-mainstream!) thinkers worked them out, and those theories make sense to me. Importantly, I have seen nothing to contradict them. Other sciency stuff goes over my head, I'm happy to admit that. You're absolutely right that I don't know about plasma cosmology, because it is insanely complicated. I got that sentence I quoted off Wikipedia and posted it because it is so delightfully arcane, like some shit George Lucas made up to put in Star Wars. But that is, actually, one of the points that the dispute between plasma cosmology and Big Bang cosmology is about. You cannot have an opinion on whether there's something to plasma cosmology if you do not understand that sentence. And d&c doesn't, obviously, because this is his thread calling into question literally the first and most basic fact about cosmology. So you've got the same poster, in the same thread, wanting to posit that every scientist since Eratosthenes has been a bullshit artist, and also that very highly educated astrophysicists, using extremely detailed observations from sophisticated astronomical observatories, have discovered something important. If you don't think that's funny I don't know what to tell you.

Do not belittle people that are attempting to learn.

d&c is not attempting to learn. He is actively running away from reality. Lots of posters have put up facts that contradict Flat Earth theory and he has ignored them. Searcher has posted the bit about the direct flight from Johannesburg to Perth three times. d&c pretends not to see that. Again, in case it was unclear, that flight is impossible on a flat Earth with the North Pole at its centre. Now watch him ignore this again. Do you think that's the sign of an open and inquiring mind? It's not, it is dogmatism in its most literal sense. I'm not dogmatic, I'm just right (about this thing, this time).

That's not to gloss over another important point Searcher's raised, about rigid conformism in science (and in academia more generally). Happy to have that chat. Although I've spent a bit of time on Rupert Sheldrake and have concluded that he's all fart and no poo.

And I'm definitely not anti-woo. Post what you want, you might be surprised. I've read a bit of Reich and am certainly willing to look into more stuff of that kind.

[backtoiam]

Oh come on, backtoiam. If you make a fool of yourself in public some people are going to point and laugh. I'm not usually among the pointers and laughers, but d&c made a fool of himself in a way that I found really funny. And interesting, since we're talking about epistemology.

You know nothing about gravity, plasma, or anything else.

No. I do know about quite a lot of sciency things, and that didn't just happen. I read about them, and read about how innovative (non-mainstream!) thinkers worked them out, and those theories make sense to me. Importantly, I have seen nothing to contradict them. Other sciency stuff goes over my head, I'm happy to admit that. You're absolutely right that I don't know about plasma cosmology, because it is insanely complicated. I got that sentence I quoted off Wikipedia and posted it because it is so delightfully arcane, like some shit George Lucas made up to put in Star Wars. But that is, actually, one of the points that the dispute between plasma cosmology and Big Bang cosmology is about. You cannot have an opinion on whether there's something to plasma cosmology if you do not understand that sentence. And d&c doesn't, obviously, because this is his thread calling into question literally the first and most basic fact about cosmology. So you've got the same poster, in the same thread, wanting to posit that every scientist since Eratosthenes has been a bullshit artist, and also that very highly educated astrophysicists, using extremely detailed observations from sophisticated astronomical observatories, have discovered something important. If you don't think that's funny I don't know what to tell you.

Do not belittle people that are attempting to learn.

d&c is not attempting to learn. He is actively running away from reality. Lots of posters have put up facts that contradict Flat Earth theory and he has ignored them. Searcher has posted the bit about the direct flight from Johannesburg to Perth three times. d&c pretends not to see that. Again, in case it was unclear, that flight is impossible on a flat Earth with the North Pole at its centre. Now watch him ignore this again. Do you think that's the sign of an open and inquiring mind? It's not, it is dogmatism in its most literal sense. I'm not dogmatic, I'm just right (about this thing, this time).

That's not to gloss over another important point Searcher's raised, about rigid conformism in science (and in academia more generally). Happy to have that chat. Although I've spent a bit of time on Rupert Sheldrake and have concluded that he's all fart and no poo.

And I'm definitely not anti-woo. Post what you want, you might be surprised. I've read a bit of Reich and am certainly willing to look into more stuff of that kind.

That was an awesome way to say I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

[stefano]

That was an awesome way to say I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Do you think you know what the fuck you're talking about? And if you do, how do you know you know that?

Again, amusingly, these aren't hip, fresh questions, they're as old as language.

[JackRiddler]

Oh come on, backtoiam. If you make a fool of yourself in public some people are going to point and laugh. I'm not usually among the pointers and laughers, but d&c made a fool of himself in a way that I found really funny. And interesting, since we're talking about epistemology.

You know nothing about gravity, plasma, or anything else.

No. I do know about quite a lot of sciency things, and that didn't just happen. I read about them, and read about how innovative (non-mainstream!) thinkers worked them out, and those theories make sense to me. Importantly, I have seen nothing to contradict them. Other sciency stuff goes over my head, I'm happy to admit that. You're absolutely right that I don't know about plasma cosmology, because it is insanely complicated. I got that sentence I quoted off Wikipedia and posted it because it is so delightfully arcane, like some shit George Lucas made up to put in Star Wars. But that is, actually, one of the points that the dispute between plasma cosmology and Big Bang cosmology is about. You cannot have an opinion on whether there's something to plasma cosmology if you do not understand that sentence. And d&c doesn't, obviously, because this is his thread calling into question literally the first and most basic fact about cosmology. So you've got the same poster, in the same thread, wanting to posit that every scientist since Eratosthenes has been a bullshit artist, and also that very highly educated astrophysicists, using extremely detailed observations from sophisticated astronomical observatories, have discovered something important. If you don't think that's funny I don't know what to tell you.

Do not belittle people that are attempting to learn.

d&c is not attempting to learn. He is actively running away from reality. Lots of posters have put up facts that contradict Flat Earth theory and he has ignored them. Searcher has posted the bit about the direct flight from Johannesburg to Perth three times. d&c pretends not to see that. Again, in case it was unclear, that flight is impossible on a flat Earth with the North Pole at its centre. Now watch him ignore this again. Do you think that's the sign of an open and inquiring mind? It's not, it is dogmatism in its most literal sense. I'm not dogmatic, I'm just right (about this thing, this time).

That's not to gloss over another important point Searcher's raised, about rigid conformism in science (and in academia more generally). Happy to have that chat. Although I've spent a bit of time on Rupert Sheldrake and have concluded that he's all fart and no poo.

And I'm definitely not anti-woo. Post what you want, you might be surprised. I've read a bit of Reich and am certainly willing to look into more stuff of that kind.

That was an awesome way to say I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Oh yes it was! Firm but kind. I am glad to see you show gratitude to stefano for it. I am also grateful, and I think it's worth requoting until everyone's read it.

Do you think you know what the fuck you're talking about? And if you do, how do you know you know that?

Again, amusingly, these aren't hip, fresh questions, they're as old as language.

No, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about either, but I think I do thanks to illusions like perceptions and representations seeming to stably refer to the same things from day to day, other people (assuming they exist) dodging the same cars crawling into the crosswalk, linear logical argument leading to conclusions that test out, money buying french fries and no money no fries, that kind of thing. All the old rational empirical rot. Time to sweep it away, right? I've been waiting to get up out of bed and into a wormhole in which the universe is elsewhere and I'm not "I," but every damn morning it's still my feet finding the same floor.

[divideandconquer]

d&c is not attempting to learn. He is actively running away from reality. Lots of posters have put up facts that contradict Flat Earth theory and he has ignored them. Searcher has posted the bit about the direct flight from Johannesburg to Perth three times. d&c pretends not to see that.

I did see that, but I wasn't on that flight. It's not something I can verify or trust as true. I have no idea. And I can say the same thing about you running away from reality. There are lots of facts that contradict the established theory and you ignore it while claiming I'm some sort of troll.

When a detective determines someone is lying to them, when something doesn't add up, he no longer trusts that person, that story. Suspicion is created and they follow that trail of evidence. That's all I'm doing. I have said over and over again, I don't know what's true. I'm not convinced of flat earth. However, with the exception of a few people posting here, most of you are acting exactly as I think cognitive elitists would respond, bashing my lack of background, lack of intellect, and/or basically my lack of qualification to post here, while basking in the glow of your own superiority. I readily admit I'm average. I'm no Mensa member, not even close. But I didn't have to show credentials or take an IQ test to join so I assumed RI was open to anyone who wants to participate in an ongoing discussion in exploring the truth of our reality...to question the discontinuity, and the perceptive cracks in the narrative. Because if our "reality" wasn't one big mindfuck, if there were no cracks, RI wouldn't exist.

Anyway, they've convinced us that we need credentials, "background" and "experts" to understand our reality, a reality that they increasingly continue to fragment. Whether it's advanced math to determine our habitat...legalese to determine justice...CPAs and tax attorneys to understand taxes..the list is endless. Yet most of these highly specialized, credentialed experts and elitists wouldn't know the first thing about surviving in a world if all of their advanced technology should suddenly disappear.
.

[stoneonstone]

Foregoing the noisy shill & personality debate in the Flat Earther leadership race, which is best done, there a few interesting European videos to ponder - and the first has big dollops of Vaughan Williams restorative Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOsxwBTRXOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm0x9PHrFyQ

[coffin_dodger]

Stef said:

I do know about quite a lot of sciency things, and that didn't just happen. I read about them, and read about how innovative (non-mainstream!) thinkers worked them out, and those theories make sense to me.

I'm not mocking or wanting a fight, Stef - but I'm interested to know what makes you accept that the current theories are any less ridiculous than FET, which itself was absolutely 'correct' and accepted by mainstream science for aeons?

As an example, is there a particular theory that makes sense to you that you can cite here, that we can discuss? (perhaps from a differing perspective)