What constitutes Misogyny?

[WakeUpAndLive]

I understand what you're saying, I think. You seem to be saying that emotion clouds the issue when a person or persons involved in an event try and tell their truth of the event. It seems to me that you are still arguing in support of the argument that parties to an event cannot accurately report on that event.

I agree that it does happen, but I disagree that objectivity is impossible. I also disagree that this presents some sort of insurmountable barrier to discerning which acts can be considered to be misogynistic acts.

Further it would be nice if the perpetrators of misogynistic acts would come out and tell their sides of the story every time one of these events took place. However, that is rarely possible, so we must be allowed some latitude in our judgments - this forum will almost always only have one side of the story.

I can tell you what I heard one of the men say after attacking me in the bathroom. He argued that I had smiled and flirted on the elevator and.. I kid you not .. he actually said the phrase: "She wanted it." I was on the other side of a door with a peephole being asked to positively identify him at the time.

I'm not asking you to comment on this. I just wanted you to hear his defense for yourself.

I am not saying objectivity is impossible, I just feel it is more easily achieved when you have two involved parties willing to talk about and discuss an event. I am not saying that a person cannot accurately report an event, just that MOST LIKELY the event will be shaded with their opinion. As you said, it would be nice if both parties stepped forward and accepted their part, but since that is not the case we must put forth a diligent effort to weed through the emotion to be left with fact.


Humans will rationalize their behaviors in some of the most unbelievable scenarios, it is a shame that is still common.

[Canadian_watcher]

I am not saying objectivity is impossible, I just feel it is more easily achieved when you have two involved parties willing to talk about and discuss an event. I am not saying that a person cannot accurately report an event, just that MOST LIKELY the event will be shaded with their opinion.

Sure - but if someone isn't typically a liar why would you doubt the accuracy of their perspective?

How far will you take this? If someone dear to you recounts a story of what happened at the supermarket are you going to pepper them with "well wait a minute, I'm not hearing the other side, so, I'm sorry but I can't really rely on your account to make any calls on this."

I guess the world needs that sort of person, and I do this myself of course. I try and imagine what the other party might have been up to/how things might have gotten misinterpreted, etc. On balance though, I believe the person I know if they are generally reliable. Not to mention that if this is a question of feelings I am doubly apt to believe the person when they tell me how a situation made them feel.

But like I said, whatever. Do your thing.

[WakeUpAndLive]

I am not saying objectivity is impossible, I just feel it is more easily achieved when you have two involved parties willing to talk about and discuss an event. I am not saying that a person cannot accurately report an event, just that MOST LIKELY the event will be shaded with their opinion.

Sure - but if someone isn't typically a liar why would you doubt the accuracy of their perspective?

How far will you take this? If someone dear to you recounts a story of what happened at the supermarket are you going to pepper them with "well wait a minute, I'm not hearing the other side, so, I'm sorry but I can't really rely on your account to make any calls on this."

I guess the world needs that sort of person, and I do this myself of course. I try and imagine what the other party might have been up to/how things might have gotten misinterpreted, etc. On balance though, I believe the person I know if they are generally reliable. Not to mention that if this is a question of feelings I am doubly apt to believe the person when they tell me how a situation made them feel.

But like I said, whatever. Do your thing.

Lying and shading a story with opinion are two different things as far as I'm concerned. So it is not that I doubt the perspective of the two parties, just that a 3rd party might describe the same event slightly different, changing the viewpoint and opinion of the non viewers drastically. Hence the need for probing questions about the situation, regardless if they are dear to me or not. I want to know as objectively as possible how a situation transpired so in return I can give my honest opinion.

Feelings are affected by our emotions in regards to a subject. I think it is a good indicator of how the event made the person feel, but it is not a good method of determining what transpired during the event, or even who was in the wrong.

I'll keep going back to it until I think it is understood, especially since you were the one who brought it up, Perspective.

[brekin]

WakeUpAndLive: I appreciate your fortitude.

[Canadian_watcher]

hmm. I guess I'm formidable then.

[WakeUpAndLive]

hmm. I guess I'm formidable then.

I would say persistent.

[Canadian_watcher]

hmm. I guess I'm formidable then.

I would say persistent.

I can only be persistent in the face of persistence, no?

------

Here's something from an online comment section re the CDN election:

Etob:
"The American government has a law preventing the sale of these jets to another country for cheaper than they buy them.

The American government watchdog says the jets will cost $125 mill minimum.

Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns"

3 replies:

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"'Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns.'

A jet with no engine, wheels or guns tend to be a leftard godsend.
ALLAH AKBAR!!!!"

Byers23:
"Brutal - your racism is showing."

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"ALLAH AKBAR is racism???"

Do you think Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy's comment was racist?

[WakeUpAndLive]

hmm. I guess I'm formidable then.

I would say persistent.

I can only be persistent in the face of persistence, no?

Actually, no. There are a whole slew of adjectives you have to choose from. But in this instance it is very possible we are both being persistent on our points.

Here's something from an online comment section re the CDN election:

Etob:
"The American government has a law preventing the sale of these jets to another country for cheaper than they buy them.

The American government watchdog says the jets will cost $125 mill minimum.

Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns"

3 replies:

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"'Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns.'

A jet with no engine, wheels or guns tend to be a leftard godsend.
ALLAH AKBAR!!!!"

Byers23:
"Brutal - your racism is showing."

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"ALLAH AKBAR is racism???"

Do you think Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy's comment was racist?

One second let me go find an irrelevant quote to reply with.......

[Canadian_watcher]

Here's something from an online comment section re the CDN election:

Etob:
"The American government has a law preventing the sale of these jets to another country for cheaper than they buy them.

The American government watchdog says the jets will cost $125 mill minimum.

Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns"

3 replies:

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"'Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns.'

A jet with no engine, wheels or guns tend to be a leftard godsend.
ALLAH AKBAR!!!!"

Byers23:
"Brutal - your racism is showing."

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"ALLAH AKBAR is racism???"

Do you think Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy's comment was racist?

One second let me go find an irrelevant quote to reply with.......

It's not relevant to misogyny, but it is relevant in the context of establishing the way context is important.

[Project Willow]

Let me just add briefly, as I can't possibly follow and post to threads this week. WUaL, do a cost-benefit analysis amongst your imagined players, because you're inferring orthodoxies, organization, and most importantly authority on women, that we, as an oppressed group, yet do not possess. Your argument isn't far removed from those that focus on false claims of assault in consensual arrangements, and posit that some pure and immediate advantage accrues to those who make them, which we know from statistics, is a pile of big, green, moldy baloney. The opposite is true, in most cases sexual assault is way under-reported, and so are women's reports of common misogynistic acts.

Women seek to end disparate treatment, while men continue to experience privilege, and as part of that privilege the male view holds sway in any venue, institution, or group you might approach in your project to erect some sort of committee structure to establish objective truth. IOW, with everything we know about how privilege works on individual and societal levels, there is no way you can equate the impact of individual voices of women victims with those who wield the power of established patriarchal culture and its structures, who are, namely, men. That equation is simply not solvable. So if you want to yell perspective, then take the entirety of forces involved in any single perspective into view, otherwise, well, you don't have any grounds to be yelling.

Woah, look at that, we got new smilies! Cool. I'm a bright, shining star... in my imagination anyway.

While I was growing up, all the men in my family took it upon themselves to remind me, on a daily basis, that I was inferior to them, simply because I was born a female. In my house the women waited on the men, literally, bringing them their plates of food at dinner and etc., even during the times my mother was the sole bread winner. Their attitudes were continually reinforced through everyday experince in school and my community and with culture in general. When I was a young girl, people still joked about women getting their "Mrs." degree. The idea that my mind, rather than my breasts and vagina, held any value at all in society, was still considered rather radical. Yet I was the first one in my family in 3 generations to get a college degree. I am thankful everyday that some small part of me never really believed the men in my family, that I cast all of that casual programming into the basin of lies with the rest that had been thrown at me during my childhood, or I have attempted to anyway. When I recount it all from my current defiant stance, I ignore the emotional toll, and the decades of work it took to get here. So chew on that for awhile, or let it sit in answer to the OP. Consider also perhaps that studies show in performance tests people conform to internalized expectations about themselves according to biases based on their race, sex, class, and ethnic heritage. That's a documented vicious cycle. The fact that college enrollment of women now outnumbers that of men is actually quite a miracle.

[Project Willow]

[WakeUpAndLive]

I love that video, she literally jumps as high as she is tall. The look on everyones face is great too.

Your argument isn't far removed from those that focus on false claims of assault in consensual arrangements, and posit that some pure and immediate advantage accrues to those who make them, which we know from statistics, is a pile of big, green, moldy baloney.

I'm not sure if you read my full exchange with CW, but maybe it will give you greater insight into my position on this matter. If you haven't yet understood my position, I can explain a little further. Yes I do feel that being victim to said act can impact explanation of story. But as well, on the flip side, I feel that being perpetrator to said act can impact explanation of story, specifically to excuse oneself/rationalize from any wrongdoing. I am calling for perspective from both sides of the story, not saying that only women need to look at it from our perspective, I should have made that more clear from the get go.

Women seek to end disparate treatment, while men continue to experience privilege, and as part of that privilege the male view holds sway in any venue, institution, or group you might approach in your project to erect some sort of committee structure to establish objective truth.

I want to state that this isn't the first time I have felt like because of my sex I was labeled as a misogynist in this thread, specifically because of comments like this that group all men in the same category. I like to think I am equally concerned about the growth of identity for both male and females, hearing this multiple times in this thread makes me wonder if my actions do not match my intent.

IOW, with everything we know about how privilege works on individual and societal levels, there is no way you can equate the impact of individual voices of women victims with those who wield the power of established patriarchal culture and its structures, who are, namely, men.

Just as you are saying with men, once any group becomes a dominant authority on anything, imparting a counter viewpoint can be difficult. To prevent such an event from happening I suggest balance and perspective, from both sides. I believe balance helps foster improved perspective and as such feel women need to be a bigger part of decision making in society.

[WakeUpAndLive]

Here's something from an online comment section re the CDN election:

Etob:
"The American government has a law preventing the sale of these jets to another country for cheaper than they buy them.

The American government watchdog says the jets will cost $125 mill minimum.

Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns"

3 replies:

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"'Harper will never be able to buy a jet for $75 mill unless the jet has no engine, wheels or guns.'

A jet with no engine, wheels or guns tend to be a leftard godsend.
ALLAH AKBAR!!!!"

Byers23:
"Brutal - your racism is showing."

Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy:
"ALLAH AKBAR is racism???"

Do you think Brutal Planet Moonbat Autopsy's comment was racist?

One second let me go find an irrelevant quote to reply with.......

It's not relevant to misogyny, but it is relevant in the context of establishing the way context is important.

Instead of making me jump through hoops why not go straight to proving your point about analyzing context to establish a medium for deciphering future scenarios (or this scenario at hand) based on lexicon?

[Canadian_watcher]

Instead of making me jump through hoops why not go straight to proving your point about analyzing context to establish a medium for deciphering future scenarios (or this scenario at hand) based on lexicon?

I am far more plain spoken than this. I'm not even sure if I get what you mean, or if you know what I was getting at.

[WakeUpAndLive]

Instead of making me jump through hoops why not go straight to proving your point about analyzing context to establish a medium for deciphering future scenarios (or this scenario at hand) based on lexicon?

I am far more plain spoken than this. I'm not even sure if I get what you mean, or if you know what I was getting at.

I've thought a bit more about it since my first reply and I think you have a good point actually. We need to analyze context to determine more in depth a persons position/story of an event. Being on this board I will assume we are all aware that the manner in which our word is spoken can drastically change the implications of said words. As such, establishing a baseline for the way context is analyzed could definitely be a step towards helping determine misogyny by more closely representing the true facts of an event. It could help us weed through emotional attachments and rationalizations by analyzing questions and answers about the event from both parties.


I do wish this could have just been said in plain english, seeing as you are a proponent of plain speak.