What's Happening? It? (TRIGGERS UPON TRIGGERS)

[Elihu]

didn't see what was posted and i trust you that i am glad i didn't. a ban's a ban so be it. peace

[Wombaticus Rex]

where are we at with the stefano stuff? a ban is different than a suspension.

Stefano isn't banned or suspended. What are you asking?

[Elihu]

so the images are up, where is the line? context counts

[Wombaticus Rex]

so the images are up, where is the line? context counts

Ah, "spell it out." Gotcha.

What backtoiam posted was a .jpg of a big, veiny, erect human penis shooting little cheese pizzas.

Is that a clear enough line for everyone here to toe?

[General Patton]

so the images are up, where is the line? context counts

Ah, "spell it out." Gotcha.

What backtoiam posted was a .jpg of a big, veiny, erect human penis shooting little cheese pizzas.

Is that a clear enough line for everyone here to toe?

HAHAHAHA I'd take a ban for that well played

[dada]

it was walter benjamin who first spoke of the photograph's history, tracing the image from personal cult item to index of facticity. the photograph had the ability to make misery into a commodity; benjamin thought the caption might have revolutionary potential, and this matrix of word and image would have political significance.

so, yes, but not as originally imagined, plutonia. i like your reading.

Well, it would depend on who is using this matrix. One person that knows what they're doing might shake the pyramid down to its foundations. An army of Mickey Mice playing at sorcerer's apprentice might make a big mess. Revolutionary potential, and political significance are relative terms. A gun could have revolutionary potential. A handshake, political significance.

plutonia, I like your reading, as well.

I'm wondering, where is the line between 'cult' and 'culture?' Both develop their own codes and lingo, provide 'connotational frameworks.' A cult is usually something considered malevolent by the culture, and vice-versa. A sub-culture is kind of a non-malevolent cult.

And what role does the internet play. Television, whatever the content, is a manufacturer, a reproducer of culture. Does the internet serve a similar function? It's interactive, to a point. But is it really so revolutionary? We like to think it is.

I hesitate to say 'the medium is the message,' here. I think the medium in this case is more like the paratext. From the great and powerful wiki:

"Literary theorist Gérard Genette defines paratext as those things in a published work that accompany the text, things such as the author's name, the title, preface or introduction, or illustrations. Genette states "More than a boundary or a sealed border, the paratext is, rather, a threshold." It is "a zone between text and off-text, a zone not only of transition but also of transaction: a privileged place of pragmatics and a strategy, of an influence on the public, an influence that ... is at the service of a better reception for the text and a more pertinent reading of it". Then quoting Philippe Lejeune, Genette further describes paratext as "a fringe of the printed text which in reality controls one's whole reading of the text"."

So like a contextual membrane. The website, the wiki, the message board, the meme. If the observer is unaware of the paratext, are they more easily manipulated?

So these are some thoughts that your reading led me to, plutonia. Thanks:)

--

I want reality to break. But I haven't noticed it breaking. Shared belief systems, reality-tunnels breaking apart, maybe?

My reality-test is Phil Dick's 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.'

Driving at six am today, the roads were wet. Even if I didn't believe it, my car still slipped and slid. My gas tank was almost empty. If I didn't believe it, my car would have stopped. I don't know that for sure, but I didn't chance it, and filled up.

That's reality stuff. Shared delusions, on the other hand, are reinforced by consensus. Doesn't make them 'realities.' And I like it when those break.

---

Maybe nobody is going to cure this derangement, maybe our best hope is amoral charismatics who use this broken culture for something better, despite themselves. Nicer cult leaders, more pragmatic messiahs.

Probably not, though.

Oh, no. Probably not.

[Project Willow]

I know that ritual abuse is part of the history of humanity and does still take place, but I wonder if the prevalence of ritualistic activity devoid of political and criminal motives is being exaggerated. Rituals don't put food on the table whereas gov funding and sex industry profits enrich.

Ra is not devoid of those concerns, it consistently overlaps with child porn, child prostitution and networking for political and business gain. Think of the occult beliefs of RA groups as a group cohesion device, a set of culture bound organizing principles that are no different in function than those that maintain order within other organized crime families (Omerta, etc.).

Even in some of the convictions it's possible that not all the motives were uncovered. Satanic rituals involving killing, cannabalism, etc, tend to make people turn away in horror which can work very well for thought stopping and cover-up.

I believe that building resilience among bystanders and advocates is necessary if any of these crimes are to be taken seriously. This is something that can be done through culture and community relationships.

n Mexico I've heard indigenous scholars and leaders say that the sacrifices did take place but the prevalence was greatly exaggerated by colonizers in order to paint the indigenous as bloodthirsty savages.

The difficulty is we live in a Christian culture, so many of the responses will tend to over emphasize the belief systems of perpetrators and sensationalize the most extreme aspects of cases. The activists I work with are keenly aware of the messaging problem, and there are long discussions that have taken place about renaming as a means of refocusing. As Ellen Lacter said in an interview this weekend, I don't care what costumes people dress up in, I just care that people are getting hurt. I have myself advocated for dropping the term ritual abuse. Non-State Torture covers the activities quite well. http://bornepress.com/naming-the-unspeakable-non-state-torture/ Others prefer Organized Abuse or Extreme Abuse. There is as yet no consensus.

I think when trying to get at the truth of Pizzagate type accusations it's also important to be very aware of how the sensationalistic and horrifying nature of RA can be used to shock, disorient and manipulate. Basing claims on word associations without victims or evidence in a vicious electoral climate reeks of smear campaign and psyop.

That's rather impossible to control, what could I do about it, be forever silent? I also don't think the suspicions are entirely unwarranted. I and several survivors I know have a perp in common. We are also all RA survivors. The Clintons spend their Christmases with this perp, in other words, the High Holidays for RA groups. This is not direct proof of course, but it certainly surpasses completely baseless fantasy.

[OP ED]

Personally I would be surprised if the Clintons weren't neck deep in
RA style practices, given their rings of associates. Guilt by associations is weak though, not nearly enough to invoke the guillotine. The most telling aspect of the verifiable factology for me is the continued tolerance for and association with convicted child abusers. Although really, the CF/CGI openly courts influence among dictators, terrorists, narco States, etc etc. It would be odd for them to NOT be involved in the most profitable of crimes, human trafficking, as well.

Call me optimistic. I didn't even need wikileaks to help me assume that.

[Project Willow]

Personally I would be surprised if the Clintons weren't neck deep in
RA style practices, given their rings of associates. Guilt by associations is weak though, not nearly enough to invoke the guillotine. The most telling aspect of the verifiable factology for me is the continued tolerance for and association with convicted child abusers. Although really, the CF/CGI openly courts influence among dictators, terrorists, narco States, etc etc. It would be odd for them to NOT be involved in the most profitable of crimes, human trafficking, as well.

Call me optimistic. I didn't even need wikileaks to help me assume that.

I would only invoke the guillotine for the stated perp at this point, but I'd hardly be alone in it, international war criminal that he is.

[stefano]

Yet, the opposite is true. It is their power and wealth that gives this kind of "art" its value and distinguishes it from, let's say, pornography, therefore making it irrelevant to the discussion of that powerful and wealthy person's guilt or innocence. The same art hanging in the house of your average Joe would raise eyebrows to high heaven. And if that person, "god forbid" came under suspicion, the "art" would practically confirm that person's guilt in the public eye and possibly even a court of law.

Yeah, good point too. I think Graham Ovenden just recently came up here - there's another guy who's a much worse example of a child molester who got away with it in plain sight because he was rich, Roger Took. Or, you know, Polanski.

[stefano]

[the more esoteric goals of soul-control, psychic possession, energy-harvesting through violent sexual abuse and torture, and so on, may well precede those of ordinary mundane graft and greed which HeavenSwan wants to make the primary motivation for these power-abuses.

Considering some very rich people - billionaires - I've often thought that, past a certain point, business is really about soul control and energy-harvesting for them. Well into their seventies, they're still working six-day weeks, and bringing in young people and giving them insane workloads. Paying them very well, but what's it to them? Screaming down phones, firing the ones who try to maintain balance, sidelining the ones who argue, marrying their daughters to bright young men who'll do what it takes. But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.

[BrandonD]

I know that ritual abuse is part of the history of humanity and does still take place, but I wonder if the prevalence of ritualistic activity devoid of political and criminal motives is being exaggerated. Rituals don't put food on the table whereas gov funding and sex industry profits enrich.

I think the fact that these global pedophilia organizations are so unbelievably corrupt and secretive is one thing that indicates its ritual/occult nature. In my opinion, it is that occult element which allows a group of people to become so deeply corrupt and depraved, as well as cohesive and able to keep a secret so thoroughly.

This occult element is capable of giving a group of people a feeling of tight brotherhood and superiority through possession of "secret knowledge", and this sense of superiority above the masses can serve to kill their humanity and sense of empathy. I say this based upon personal experience in several groups/cults in the past, including a cult that I discovered was sexually deviant at its center.

There is a quote out there which says something like "Good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." There is some insight in that quote which relates to this subject, often the result of participating in these occult groups (whether intentional or not) is that one is pulled deeper into his vices and weaknesses of character.

[Heaven Swan]

"BrandonD » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:39 am

I think the fact that these global pedophilia organizations are so unbelievably corrupt and secretive is one thing that indicates its ritual/occult nature. In my opinion, it is that occult element which allows a group of people to become so deeply corrupt and depraved, as well as cohesive and able to keep a secret so thoroughly.

This occult element is capable of giving a group of people a feeling of tight brotherhood and superiority through possession of "secret knowledge", and this sense of superiority above the masses can serve to kill their humanity and sense of empathy. I say this based upon personal experience in several groups/cults in the past, including a cult that I discovered was sexually deviant at its center.

There is a quote out there which says something like "Good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." There is some insight in that quote which relates to this subject, often the result of participating in these occult groups (whether intentional or not) is that one is pulled deeper into his vices and weaknesses of character.

I didn't know you before Brandon D but I'm sure glad you're back. This is exactly where this fruitful discussion has been leading my thinking i.e. that the key to rooting out this seemingly intractable problem of collusion and corruption at the top is by looking at and highlighting it's cultlike formation.

I'm not wanting to minimize in any way the child abuse (but why do they do it? I'm inclined to believe, based on real study and interviews, that the main purpose of the child abuse is to traumatize and structure the minds of these victims with the hope of creating compliant member/slaves). The survivors are the non-compliant ones who have or are trying to break free.

I don't have time to say much more right now but it seems that focusing on the cultlike structure of the secret groups may be the key to an effective takedown.

[Heaven Swan]

I know that ritual abuse is part of the history of humanity and does still take place, but I wonder if the prevalence of ritualistic activity devoid of political and criminal motives is being exaggerated. Rituals don't put food on the table whereas gov funding and sex industry profits enrich.

Ra is not devoid of those concerns, it consistently overlaps with child porn, child prostitution and networking for political and business gain. Think of the occult beliefs of RA groups as a group cohesion device, a set of culture bound organizing principles that are no different in function than those that maintain order within other organized crime families (Omerta, etc.).

Even in some of the convictions it's possible that not all the motives were uncovered. Satanic rituals involving killing, cannabalism, etc, tend to make people turn away in horror which can work very well for thought stopping and cover-up.

I believe that building resilience among bystanders and advocates is necessary if any of these crimes are to be taken seriously. This is something that can be done through culture and community relationships.

n Mexico I've heard indigenous scholars and leaders say that the sacrifices did take place but the prevalence was greatly exaggerated by colonizers in order to paint the indigenous as bloodthirsty savages.

The difficulty is we live in a Christian culture, so many of the responses will tend to over emphasize the belief systems of perpetrators and sensationalize the most extreme aspects of cases. The activists I work with are keenly aware of the messaging problem, and there are long discussions that have taken place about renaming as a means of refocusing. As Ellen Lacter said in an interview this weekend, I don't care what costumes people dress up in, I just care that people are getting hurt. I have myself advocated for dropping the term ritual abuse. Non-State Torture covers the activities quite well. http://bornepress.com/naming-the-unspeakable-non-state-torture/ Others prefer Organized Abuse or Extreme Abuse. There is as yet no consensus.

I think when trying to get at the truth of Pizzagate type accusations it's also important to be very aware of how the sensationalistic and horrifying nature of RA can be used to shock, disorient and manipulate. Basing claims on word associations without victims or evidence in a vicious electoral climate reeks of smear campaign and psyop.

That's rather impossible to control, what could I do about it, be forever silent? I also don't think the suspicions are entirely unwarranted. I and several survivors I know have a perp in common. We are also all RA survivors. The Clintons spend their Christmases with this perp, in other words, the High Holidays for RA groups. This is not direct proof of course, but it certainly surpasses completely baseless fantasy.

There's so much here that I want to unpack together. What a weath of ideas and angles worth pursuing.

So frustrated right now that I got up late. Thanks for the comments though. I will pick this up later when I have a bit more time.

I"d just like to say, regarding the last paragraph, that the last thing I would ever want is for you or any survivor to remain silent. What I meant about being aware of the shock value of RA is for everyone, survivors included, i.e that I hope we don't let the shocking details blitz our ability to think clearly and analyze what is going on here. That would be allowing ourselves to be manipulated by perps.

[Elihu]

the key to rooting out this seemingly intractable problem of collusion and corruption at the top

i consider it an at war situation. cern? pedophilia? what comes next? can all be forgiven under the democrat and republican label?