Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

[orz]

You mean this type of stuff? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hkNnltFfR4

Well it certainly proves that Bart Sibrel is good at harrassing a bunch of old guys...

The thing is, if you assume (coz it's true) that the moon landings were real, then these guys are acting EXACTLY as you'd expect some old all-american nasa guys to act if some aggressive nut with a video camera and a bible pesters them in public and calls them cowards and liars. What exactly is supposed to be suspicous here? Even with absurdly selective editing like this they guy just comes off as an annoying jackass.

I haven't watched the whole film as i'm not paying for that rubbish but I'm looking for more clips of it now.

[erosoplier]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. This is the footage I have seen of it (30+ minutes worth, starting 10 minutes in).

I don't think they acted anything like what one would expect. Maybe age has made them all stubborn/cantankerous/vain, but I would have expected a little more professional confidence and pride to be mixed in there as well. Once they found out where Sibrel was coming from, I would have expected their overall mood to be that of exasperation, and/or derision, but most of all, calm confidence. Maybe, as is quite likely I guess, all of that kind of stuff landed on the cutting room floor. But Aldrin, Young and Collins acted like they earned their living ripping off little old ladies and were being confronted by a TV current-affairs crew. And the others look shonky in various other ways. I can understand 1 or 2 of them having a bad day, but not 6 or 8 of them.

They all came off looking as if they had something to hide, and if the moon landings were real, and if they weren't actually cooperating with Sibrel, I would have expected nearly none of them to end up looking as if they had something to hide. The Buzz "Well, we sit and we talk about things ahead of time" Aldrin footage (12:15) is enough to convince me that something strange is going on. (And Ed Mitchell "accidentally" having a moon hoax documentary playing in the background in his own home...well that's just too convenient afaic. And the perfect sound quality of the "wanna call the CIA and have em waxed" line. It goes on and on).

Given the appearances, and seeing as we don't know the truth, I think it's worth keeping the possibility in mind that they were willing participants in making themselves look shonky.

[Occult Means Hidden]

euro, your link doesn't work. Please provide another.

[erosoplier]

Well that's odd and annoying - it's been available for the last month at least, and it was there earlier today, but it's unavailable now.

I haven't been able to find anything similar to it either. I'll post if I do.

[Shoogie]

Nope. It makes perfect sense for an astronaut to act irritable if someone is accusing him of being a liar. I was referring to a press conference which took place soon after they returned from the moon and it wasn't that they acted "tired" or "sleepy".

They hung their heads, recited their "lines" as if they were acting in a bad highschool production and took long pauses between sentences while looking at each other with worried looks on their faces. Something was clearly off with what they were saying and how they felt saying it.

[Shoogie]

double post

[orz]

Maybe so (i don't really see it from the clips of that i've watched) but the thing is this:

There's very little room for coverup, once you account for the aspects of the moon mission which are documented provable science. (ie pretty much everything being documented, recorded etc etc)

There isn't really (alas) anywhere to fit big important stuff like them having discovered moon pyramids or whatever, and as far as I know there's no evidence for it; once all incorrect theories are discounted you're just left with a yearning for something to be wrong, and vague innuendo about the astronauts' behaviour, based on framed and selectively edited clips. (would you really have found that press conference so suspect out of the moon hoax video context? Did anyone at the time find it suspect?)

So what's left, if you really insist they're hiding something, is some mundane crime or some personal embarrasment/scandal... you're basically digging up the dirt on some old guys' private life decades ago. Is that really so important when so many immensely evil and insane things are going on in the world right now that our government's aren't even trying to cover up?... are proudly getting away with right in the open?

Come to think of it, that goes for full blown moon hoax believers: Even if their claims were not insane nonsense, so what? What would it mean that the government faked it, and what actual importance does it have in the year 2007? And what are people supposed to do with this information?

[erosoplier]

Well that Astronauts Gone Wild link seems to be working again.

Edit: Or not.

Here is the address if that link doesn't work for you (remove the space between the slashes):

http:/ /video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2265515730495966561&q=astronauts+gone+wild

[Shoogie]

Here is proof that should put the matter to rest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0

[Ben D]

New company aims to send humans back to the moon

by Staff Writers Washington (AFP) Dec 6, 2012

Two former top NASA officials unveiled plans Thursday to sell manned flights to the moon by the end of the decade, in an announcement 40 years after the last human set foot there.

Spaceflight, long the province of national governments, has moved toward increased commercialization in recent years, with private companies for the first time successfully launching rockets into orbit.

The US space agency, in the hopes of keeping costs down, even retired its space shuttles in 2011. NASA has instead paid for space on Russian craft to get people and supplies to the International Space Station -- and, more recently, on one built and operated by SpaceX that carried just cargo.

But with ever shrinking budgets, manned flights beyond Earth's orbit have been put on hold, with the US space agency relying on robots to do its exploring of the rest of the solar system.

The Golden Spike Company, its name a reference to the spike that completed the first railway to traverse the United States, aims to take part in the new wave of private spaceflight, as well as open up new frontiers by getting humans back into outer space.

The company estimates it will cost $1.5 billion for a round-trip expedition to the moon, a price tag it says is roughly equivalent to the amount government-funded space programs spend to send robots there now.

Golden Spike said it can reduce costs by "capitalizing on available rockets and emerging commercial-crew spacecraft."

The company aims to sell flights "to nations, individuals and corporations with lunar exploration objectives and ambitions," it said, adding that the estimated prices "are a fraction of any lunar program ever conceived."

Golden Spike has been working on its business plan for the last two years, and the unveiling comes a day before the 40th anniversary of the launch of Apollo 17, the last mission that put humans on the moon.

The two entrepreneurs behind the company include a former Apollo flight director, Gerry Griffin, who also directed NASA's Johnson Space Center, and planetary scientist and former NASA science chief Alan Stern.

The company counts high-profile politicians among its advisers, including former speaker of the US House of Representatives Newt Gingrich, and Bill Richardson, a former New Mexico governor and a top official under president Bill Clinton.

The Apollo space program ran from 1963 to 1972, and included the iconic Apollo 11 mission that saw Neil Armstrong take the first steps on the moon.

The last mission launched on December 7, 1972, and returned to Earth 12 days later, after astronaut Eugene Cernan took the last steps on the moon by a human to date.

SpaceX, founded by PayPal co-founder Elon Musk is one of several private firms working with the US space agency to send flights to and from the ISS, and the first to become operational.

[Allegro]

^^^ Well, hmm. If remembered correctly, SpaceX has been recently applauded by familiar, online articulate scientists. While I may be enjoying astronomy these days, I find on my part a neglect for which reminders are necessary with regard to probable U.S. military space defense plans and space warfare operations within certain corporations as in-our-faces Lockheed Martin at NASA Science, 21APR10.
Yet, eloquent scientists know where their toast is buttered.

From SpaceWeather dot com on 01APR11.

SECRET SPACE PLANE FLARES: The US Air Force’s X-37B space plane is circling Earth and, although it is on a classified mission with an officially unpublished orbit, sky watchers have spotted it. “I saw the X-37B from my home in Pasadena, California, around sunrise on March 31st,” reports Anthony Cook of the Griffith Observatory. “The spacecraft’s appearance was remarkable. When overhead it was a little brighter than a 2nd magnitude star with a slight yellow hue. Then it flared. As the X-37B moved toward the horizon it became silvery and brightened to around magnitude -6, far outshining Venus below it.” The flare was presumably caused by sunlight glinting from some flat surface on the shuttle-shaped spacecraft, but no one can say for sure because it is a classified mission. Ready for a secret flare of your own? Space plane flyby preditions may be found on the Simple Satellite Tracker or on your cell phone.

_________________
Among others in RI archives, refer Tomgram: Engelhardt, The Arrival of the Warrior Corporation.

[Allegro]

40 Years Ago Today: The Last Human Left the Moon ... for now | Phil Plait
Bad Astronomy | 14DEC12


^ Astronaut Gene Cernan, the last human on the Moon. Image credit: NASA

Today marks a bittersweet anniversary: It was 40 years ago that a human being left the last bootprint on the Moon. Astronaut Gene Cernan stood on that barren surface, took a final look around, made a short statement, and stepped back onto the lander.

My friend, space historian and author Andrewy Chaikin, made a video to mark this date.



I agree with Andrew: Exploring the Moon should be a priority for NASA, which at the moment does not have—and most certainly needs—a big goal. I would love to see us go to Mars, but I suspect that may be too big a step without an intermediate goal first. The travel times are so long that a host of challenges are introduced, including bringing supplies, protecting people from radiation exposure, and the natural atrophying of the human body in prolonged weightlessness. All of these issues are avoided or hugely minimized by going back to the Moon.

These are the words Cernan spoke before leaving the Moon:


I’m on the surface; and, as I take man’s last step from the surface, back home for some time to come—but we believe not too long into the future—I’d like to just (say) what I believe history will record. That America’s challenge of today has forged man’s destiny of tomorrow. And as we leave the Moon at Taurus–Littrow, we leave as we came and, God willing, as we shall return, with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17.

Melancholy words, perhaps, but a little while later Cernan followed up with this:


Too many years have passed for me to still be the last man to have left his footprints on the Moon. I believe with all my heart that somewhere out there is a young boy or girl with indomitable will and courage who will lift that dubious distinction from my shoulders and take us back where we belong. Let us give that dream a chance.

Dreaming is something we do very well, and turning those dreams into reality is what NASA can and will do. The dream is alive, and it’s time once again to make a giant leap.

[BrandonD]

I have a background in digital photo manipulation, working for a time in a Kodak photo lab digitally restoring old photos.

I can tell you that in my opinion, those high quality photos of the Apollo moon landings we all know and love were not taken under the conditions said to have existed on the moon. The most tell-tale sign is the very clear indications of artificial lighting used to make the photos more clear and "cinematic", a trick used frequently by professional photographers and which is very apparent in the photos, IMO.

In my opinion, the rest is speculation, but of course one cannot help but wonder, "If they faked photographs, WHY did they do it?" Of course the simplest and most logical reason is that they never went to the moon in the first place. But there is also a possibility that they went and saw something they weren't supposed to see.

However, in my opinion they were staged. Just offering my opinion, if there are any raging Apollo-lovers out there please don't bother trying to spur a "debate", this is not a crusade of mine just offering friendly info.

[brainpanhandler]

I can tell you that in my opinion, those high quality photos of the Apollo moon landings we all know and love were not taken under the conditions said to have existed on the moon. The most tell-tale sign is the very clear indications of artificial lighting used to make the photos more clear and "cinematic", a trick used frequently by professional photographers and which is very apparent in the photos, IMO.

I don't really want to "debate" either, so don't take this as an invitation to debate or feel you have to respond in any way, but imo it seems the photo clarity is probably more easily explained by the lack of an atmosphere and the superior optics of the cameras used and the "cinematic" look of the photos is a result of the one sourcing dramatic side lighting. Just my opinion.

[BrandonD]

I don't really want to "debate" either, so don't take this as an invitation to debate or feel you have to respond in any way, but imo it seems the photo clarity is probably more easily explained by the lack of an atmosphere and the superior optics of the cameras used and the "cinematic" look of the photos is a result of the one sourcing dramatic side lighting. Just my opinion.

It's ok, I'm totally fine with people thinking either way on this subject. I really appreciate the civil dialogue, I've brought up this subject once or twice before on other forums and you wouldn't BELIEVE the kind of zealotry and rudeness that goes on around this subject.