"Nothing is Real"; 'live' CNN coverage, 1991 Gulf

[Harvey]

Irony is dead. Has been for some time tho.

[DrEvil]

Still no idea what you're saying, unless you're engaging in whataboutism and defending a military invasion/regime change operation because the west has done the same.

[RocketMan]

Oh sheeeeesh, are we using this probably CIA-seeded propaganda term "WHATABOUTISM" here? Surely not... Soon we'll be hearing TANKIE as well I guess...

[DrEvil]

It would help if Harvey would just say what he means. What's his problem with me thinking someone who invades another country can get fucked?

[Elvis]

I've been watching this guy, an RT reporter. He's good. He's reported from separatist areas during shelling & fighting, so the helmet might just make him feel safer.

[Elvis]

Since we're on Ukraine now in this thread, we note the news about "A kindergarten in eastern Ukraine was one of the civilian structures hit by artillery from Russian-backed separatists" -- you'll find dozens of Western media stories saying it was either "Russian troops" or "Russian-backed separatists" who shelled the kindergarten.

However, the shelling clearly came from Ukrainian units—presumably the Azov-type groups who've done most of the attacking in the eastern independent Russian-speaking regions. This was all covered on RT, on the ground, in detail---not with sweeping, unsupported accusations.

It's no surprise the ultranationalist Ukraine units shell civilian neighborhoods: they openly declare hatred of Russians and a desire to kill them.

[JackRiddler]

Still no idea what you're saying, unless you're engaging in whataboutism and defending a military invasion/regime change operation because the west has done the same.

Let's do note the 'West' IS doing the same, simultaneously, to worse effect, in several places.

[DrEvil]

But that's no excuse for more of the same. Even with the legitimate reasons Russia has to be pissed off at the west, invading another country in response is insane. What did Putin think would happen? That NATO would become less belligerent? All he managed was to drastically increase the chances of things going straight to hell.

Of course the west/NATO shares blame in that, but Putin is the one who lit the match and threw it on the bonfire. Overnight we went from disliking each other to being one bad call away from nuclear war.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Still no idea what you're saying, unless you're engaging in whataboutism and defending a military invasion/regime change operation because the west has done the same.

Let's do note the 'West' IS doing the same, simultaneously, to worse effect, in several places.

I find it appalling that people in Australia are saying the things they are saying and doing things like calling Yemeni people "goat herders".

That particular person was in the ADF Afghanistan tho so he's probably got to be as shrill as he can to distract us from our own war crimes.

[alloneword]

I'm seeing a few in this genre:



(The smoke is a nice touch).

[MacCruiskeen]

The capacity for fakery has never been greater. We've probably all seen those very convincing-looking photos of "human" faces entirely generated by computers, but check out something called Speechelo to see how far-advanced computerised speech now is.

[drstrangelove]

A tribute to an old classic:

[stickdog99]

A Highly Intelligent and Highly Educated Good Friend of Mine Just Wrote This Note

I always find it strange that the people rattling the sabers the loudest are usually the folks that aren’t about to get stabbed. Putin may claim to be a tough guy, but he seems like a grade A punk to me. A scared little man with scared little man visions of monsters under his bed. Same goes for Tucker. All talk, no walk. You want a fight, why don’t you do the fighting? Show us how tough you are. Real tough guys don’t need words or let other people to do their fighting, they let their actions speak for themselves.

I hope this is a wakeup call for Europe and NATO. For too long Europeans have been taking the easy way out, thinking there was no Piper to pay for the long peace they’ve enjoyed. America has taken on too much of the burden. We take all the blame for the world’s troubles and have reaped little in terms of gratitude for the good works we have done to keep the world from the deep darkness we know is lurking out there. Everybody wants something for nothing and everyone is a critic. Russia is a nation ruled by thieves and to the extent that the world does business with them, they are enabling that corruption. Putin is a direct consequence of the easy way out. You want peace, guess what, it’s gonna cost you. No more cheap Russian energy. No more relying on America to do all the fighting and put out all the fires in the world. It’s time to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your own house. History ain’t over, it’s barely begun. That is, just so long as we can keep those big missiles in their silos.

Frankly, I am dumbfounded by the rollercoaster ride of heartfelt wisdom, ridiculous jingoism, and profound geopolitical ignorance that I experienced reading these two paragraphs.

I can't even begin to imagine how to respond to this. Any suggestions?

[liminalOyster]

Still no idea what you're saying, unless you're engaging in whataboutism and defending a military invasion/regime change operation because the west has done the same.

Let's do note the 'West' IS doing the same, simultaneously, to worse effect, in several places.

Jack, those aren't, you know, *real* places. They're outside Europe.

[MacCruiskeen]

stickdog,
I wish I could think of something truthful to say to your friend that wouldn't just stoke his already-raging resentment. It's an extreme example of what you can read every day on Twitter, though most well-educated bourgeois twitterers still cover themselves with some kind of attempt at what passes for irony (de rigeur until very recently, because it was uncool to be seen to be sincere or serious about anything) . A middle-aged middle-class man (I guess) fearing a fall from relative prosperity (I guess) identifies with a big strong nation state and erupts into a tough-talking tirade on its behalf. I can't think of anything to call that but Classic Fascism. Victor Klemperer described these sudden and shocking transformations of old friends, neighbours and colleagues in Germany eight decades ago, and he too moved in educated circles.

People talk as if "COVID" marked some kind of unforeseeable "mass psychosis", but the seeds of that madness were sown at least twenty years ago.* .I remember being taken aback immediately after 9/11 by the closing of ranks, the closing of minds, the indignation at any questioning, the rise of the term "conspiracy theory", the vilification of dissidents, the flight to the protector, the furious identification with Daddy, especially among soi-disant liberals. Consequences were inevitable. We're now reaping the harvest, or rather our rulers are. The middle classes themselves are ripe for the picking.

* We can trace it back to any point between the invention of agriculture and the assassination of JFK, but let's keep it mamageable and stick to the New American Century.