Space.com article SUPPORTS Cydonia research

[Joe Hillshoist]

Cheers man, that was funny.

[MaxtheKnife]

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
- Carl Sagan

Sorry Max, but you failed.

Not quite... the failure is yours for not understanding the politics behind Sagan's infamous statement.

Quoting a friend here:

"This is the MOST toxic "skeptic's argument" of all ....

For Carl Sagan to REALLY have believed this, he also had to believe that injecting a "subjective criteria" -- the concept of "extraordinary" -- into a "quantative science," somehow would serve a useful propose ...

NOT!

By introducing this totally NON-scientific criteria --
"extraordinary" -- into scientific discussions involving "anomalous phenomenon" ... Sagan instantly reduced ALL science to a totally SUBJECTIVE level--

Where ANY scientific evidence -- like our (and other) redundant, overwhelmingly meaningful mathematical and geometric measurements at Cydonia -- could be dismissed with a wave of his hand ... and a murmered "not extraordinary enough ...."

It was the single, MOST damaging, "subjective criteria" EVER introduced into the entire discussion of "anomalies" ... by ANYONE ....

And -- it was a deliberate and TOTALLY political decision on Carl's part--

Which has resulted in a set of "constantly moving goal posts" ever since -- as, NO evidence presented can EVER be considered "extraordinary enough" ... IF the "judges" are determined to suppress any particular "extraordinary discovery"--

Like ... "intelligent life on Mars ...." "

[Simulist]

"Extraordinary evidence" is too much to hope for at this point. But how about some "evidence"?

Evidence would be a welcome reprieve from nonsense.

[barracuda]

For Carl Sagan to REALLY have believed this, he also had to believe that injecting a "subjective criteria" -- the concept of "extraordinary" -- into a "quantative science," somehow would serve a useful propose ...

NOT!

It's kinda funny to see you, Max, bemoaning the introduction of subjectivity into levels of scientific evidence. As I recall, your last major update, here, "Dog Star" essestially posits that because you think you see a dog's face in a reflected image of Cydonian rock features, the architects of the plaza must be from a planet inhabiting the system of the binary Dog Star!

You can't be Sirius.

[MaxtheKnife]

essestially posits that because you think you see a dog's face in a reflected image of Cydonian rock features, the architects of the plaza must be from a planet inhabiting the system of the binary Dog Star!

Lol... Essentially? Not quite... but that sure is a nice looking strawman.



And bemoaning?!

Definitely not 'bemoaning'... simply stating the facts of the matter.

[barracuda]

Insread of just winking at me, explain what I've misunderstood. Are you not saying that the creators of Cydonia are from Sirius?

And the Gods come from Orion and Sirius, The Dog Star.

Where's the strawman now, maximillian?

Everything about your entire thesis is subjectively based on your personal interpretation of imaginary imagery. Essentially you write half-assed poetry, taking the form of psuedo-science. And from that vantage point, I kind of like the whole thing.

[82_28]

There are any number of maxims that can be applied to your technique, writing and overall material. I won't use any of them. But, dude, leave out the mysticism, leave out the appeal to authority (you) and just explain what the hell you think in a way that passes the muster of those who are still responding to this thread. I really don't know why I care about this thread, honestly. It makes no sense, I don't get your preoccupation and at the same time I've always been interested in this "face on Mars".

And honestly, how can a layman, sitting at home on his computer really know what data he is "researching" is actually genuine? We cover CONSPIRACIES here dawg! Scientifically, prosaically, and even WOOeely you have many levels of theory failure to contend with.

Nasa could have been photoshopping this shit for years! I don't believe that, but c'mon mang. Spit it out, Max. What are you trying to say and begin by detailing your research methods.

[barracuda]

I'd be happy if he'd simply explain his thinking behind his original post in the thread. I mean, is there ANYONE reading here who has got any kind of a handle on that yet? Anyone at all? Talk to me here...

[waugs]

[Perelandra]

[82_28]

Another thing:

By introducing this totally NON-scientific criteria --
"extraordinary" -- into scientific discussions involving "anomalous phenomenon" ... Sagan instantly reduced ALL science to a totally SUBJECTIVE level--

Where ANY scientific evidence -- like our (and other) redundant, overwhelmingly meaningful mathematical and geometric measurements at Cydonia -- could be dismissed with a wave of his hand ... and a murmered "not extraordinary enough ...."

Bullfuckingshit. While some may have their personal qualms with Sagan, he was a mystic/skeptic at heart. There is absolutely nothing unscientific about his methods of science or writing. In fact, he ponders Cydonia numerous times in his writings. But concludes that people such as you Max are going to believe in what you're going to believe anyways. That's his conclusion. Did he ever conclude that an ancient civilization was IMPOSSIBLE on Mars? Nope. He merely stated the obvious -- extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. One can ponder anything -- and I welcome such activity. But claims need evidence, methods must be delineated -- such is science. It's just the way it is. It must be proven -- not the OUTCOMES -- but the methods must be proven. It will always be that way as the humble humans we are. Always. No getting around it.

[smoking since 1879]

re: something mr B said/thought up thread....

Erm..., Max, life is a bit short dude, and erm.... where are you going with this idea? it gonna save us from oil spills, greed and history?

If so Max, please, show us the way man... cuz, like wow, this could be imporant.. no dude, really.

(this isn't even funny any more.. )



(on edit.. missed a question mark, and bad punctuation(blush))

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Wow.

I'm utterly fascinated that this thread has reached 9 pages. 9!! And yet, some here REMAIN amazingly, patiently [though the patience has now worn thin for most] waiting for any semblance of a coherent [non-circuitous] response from this Mr. Knife.

Along with the rest of you, I've visited Mr. Knife's website a few times in a futile attempt to see something I did not catch before [and perhaps therein lies the genius of The Knife: keep it vague and absurd enough to increase page counts and return visits]; I've examined the mirror-manipulated photos of various mounds and rocks, the computer-generated lines and arrows blinking randomly across the manipulated images, only to be left bewildered and mildly [I say mildly because I refuse to invest much emotional energy in this apparent tripe] frustrated by images that look nothing more than mounds and rocks reflected and split by mirrors... nothing more.

..and then we come to this thread and observe the almost comically obtuse/vague responses to earnest questions. Cavalier non-rebuttals, avoidance of direct questions, obfuscations.

This guy missed his calling: he would thrive as a politician.

Granted, at this point it seems most of us are just hanging around this thread rubber-necking, cajoling the lad to entertain us further with his absurdities, mildly curious as to where this hall-of-mirrors of a thread will eventually lead... if anywhere at all.

Or can it be that he, and he alone [along with Hoagland of course] can see what most of us cannot? Perhaps The LIGHT was only meant for the few to bare witness, while the rest of us can only strain our eyes in a futile attempt to see what is apparently right THERE before us. Alas, perhaps we are all simply envious of Max, the Knife, the Visionary, the Messenger.

Perhaps I should just delete my response altogether, as it is an exercise in futility to have dedicated so many words to this thread... ... .... ... ah, F it.

[Perelandra]

[MaxtheKnife]

Ah, yes... the several preceeding posts...

Now they're...

BEMOANING.