"Helicopterless" Norway & the Utøya massacre

[JackRiddler]

You can call them by their names, Hege Dalen and Toril Hansen.

[stickdog99]

Parent who called emergency line not believed

We were ready to eat dinner when the phone rang. It was our daughter who was Utøya of AUF-camp with his brother. She said it was loose shot on the island, and that it broke out panic. I asked the kids get the coverage, said Johnson told the newspaper Forward .

He shows the phone log, which states that he called 112 several times without making contact. After turning the first phone 17.26 came at last through at 17.30.

Had to call themselves

- What happened then was that I simply was not believed when I told her what her daughter on Utøya told me. I was told that if this were the case, as the children call themselves, said Johnsen.

Along the way he got back in touch with his son on another phone, but even when he referred to this he received the same message by the police.

- Children need to call yourself. Even though I told her to take me seriously, he says to Forward.

The feeling he had was that he simply was not believed. Towards the end of the conversation, which he estimates to have lasted for 2-3 minutes, he admits that the frustration was the roof.

Sorry

- I think I said something like "There was not much help available in today, fucking bitch." When I received the reply that I would not call her a bitch. And I realized that there was no help available here, he said.

Instead, he called rather an old friend with an office in the Labour Party offices at Youngstorget in Oslo, and Johnson was told that the operation was started.

Police sorry case, but can not confirm the incident.

- If this is the case, it is terrible. It described should not happen, says Hugo Magne Nilsen, head of the operations center at the middle Hålogaland police, the future.

Investigating the case

Middle Hålogaland police went Wednesday with a press release in which they regret that their families were met in a way that seemed dismissive when they phoned the police operations center.

- Operations Centre received numerous inquiries from relatives from ca. 17.30 that the continued shooting at Utøya and that a number of youths had already been shot. This information was relayed to Southern Buskerud Police District, who stated that Utøya was in Northern Buskerud police and that they were already familiar with the events there, writes Chief of Staff Magne-Hugo Nilsen in the press release.

[stickdog99]

Two Timelines

Fuller (police spokesperson) said that there are two timelines when it comes to police response to a terrorist attack, one formal and one informal. He said that the two timelines are different and that at a later time may release the informal timeline and provide comments.

[stickdog99]

Kid called his dad at 17:15

Just at that low because 18-year-old and hid in the water's edge on Utøya. Even if the perpetrator was not far away, so he ventured to call his dad at 17.15.

Called Dad

First he had tried to call the police in Oslo, but did not come through.

"I then called my dad and told him that there was a man with a gun that shot people on Utøya and I hid myself. I asked him to call the police," said Erik.

The father immediately called the police in Ålesund. They contacted the police in Oslo.

And this report surprises whom here?

[barracuda]

That report is confusing. Did he call the Oslo police at 17:15? It sounds like it. Then he didn't get through, so he called his dad, his dad called the local Ålesund police, and they called Oslo. Not much of a smoking gun.

[stickdog99]

That report is confusing. Did he call the Oslo police at 17:15? It sounds like it. Then he didn't get through, so he called his dad, his dad called the local Ålesund police, and they called Oslo. Not much of a smoking gun.

This is what I have been talking about. How I am supposed to interpret your post other than you will go to any length to defend the official police timeline? Remember when you asked loopy what evidence it would take to convince him? How about looking in the mirror on that count?

What about "so he ventured to call his dad at 17:15" is so "confusing" to you?

How many reports do you need? Kids started calling and texting the cops, the emergency number, and their parents as soon as the shooting began. Why is this so unbelievable to you? How could you possibly think otherwise? Why do you require a "smoking gun" to admit the obvious?

We have one documented report of a mother getting a text at 17:10. We have another documented report of a father getting a call at 17:15. There is nothing confusing about looking at your cellphone and reading the time you received or placed a call or message on it.

[Dradin Kastell]

Now, the AMK panel presented its overview:

At 5:24 p.m. got AMK first message. (3 minutes before the local police claim they were first informed!)

Stickdog, you are doing a great job amassing and translating articles from Norway. But they will need some more analysis. For example in this case "AMK" is the Buskerud emergency centre at Drammen who first called the Nordre Buskerud police at about 17.27. This was mentioned in the two links I posted above. So this and other similar stories confirm that Nordre Buskerud police got their first official call via the local emergency centre a few minutes after 17.24.

But like I wrote, they also had received some word about shooting in Utoya some time before this, like the emergency centre operator said. A private local call (or calls) perhaps? This is something I would like to know more about.

[barracuda]

I'm just saying this report is confusing. "First he had tried to call the police in Oslo, but did not come through. 'I then called my dad...'"

And if he called his dad and spoke with him, then his dad called local police and spoke with them, then local police called Oslo and spoke with them, it's impossible to tell at what time Oslo police received this particular call from reading the article.

[stickdog99]

Now, the AMK panel presented its overview:

At 5:24 p.m. got AMK first message. (3 minutes before the local police claim they were first informed!)

Stickdog, you are doing a great job amassing and translating articles from Norway. But they will need some more analysis. For example in this case "AMK" is the Buskerud emergency centre at Drammen who first called the Nordre Buskerud police at about 17.27. This was mentioned in the two links I posted above. So this and other similar stories confirm that Nordre Buskerud police got their first official call via the local emergency centre a few minutes after 17.24.

But like I wrote, they also had received some word about shooting in Utoya some time before this, like the emergency centre operator said. A private local call (or calls) perhaps? This is something I would like to know more about.

How is it that the first ambulance arrived on at the opposite shore, 600 meters across the water from Utoya, a full 53 minutes before the police managed to get to Utoya?

Meanwhile, dozens of kids and young adults are being murdered during this time period. Don't you find the difference between the response of the ambulances and campers and that of the cops in the least bit striking?

[stickdog99]

I'm just saying this report is confusing. "First he had tried to call the police in Oslo, but did not come through. 'I then called my dad...'"

And if he called his dad and spoke with him, then his dad called local police and spoke with them, then local police called Oslo and spoke with them, it's impossible to tell at what time Oslo police received this particular call from reading the article.

The article says point blank that he called both the police and his dad at 17:15. When he didn't get through the police at 17:15, he immediately dialed his dad within the same minute. Imagine that! When your first call doesn't go through, you immediately try a different number!

But I guess that only works for this kid or you or me. If instead, you are a police station or emergency call center, well in those cases making a call takes more like 6-8 minutes. Right?

Look, anything's possible. But what do you think happened when the dad got this message at 17:15? Would it normally take a frantic parent more than a minute to get through to his local police station one way or another? Would the local police normally go on a coffee break once they got this info?

This has been my problem the whole time. Maybe there are some strange but legitimate reasons for all of these delays. Certainly stranger things have happened. But you (and others) have been acting as if these delays, while perhaps lamentable, are no big deal and basically standard operating procedure -- as if no explanations are actually necessary.

[Dradin Kastell]

How is it that the first ambulance arrived on at the opposite shore, 600 meters across the water from Utoya, a full 53 minutes before the police managed to get to Utoya?

Meanwhile, dozens of kids and young adults are being murdered during this time period. Don't you find the difference between the response of the ambulances and campers and that of the cops in the least bit striking?

Well, yes, the local police first arrived at the lakefront 19 minutes after the first ambulance was "in place" according to the emergency centre timeline, even though presumably both the ambulance and the police would come from Honefoss. There is a big difference, but was it deliberate? I don't have enough information yet to say for sure.

[barracuda]

I guess what I'm saying is these things don't happen instantaneously. The kid spoke to his dad. What did he say? "Dad there's shooting here on the island!" Do you think his father immediately hung up the phone without further conversation? I don't. I'd find out more details, and make sure my kid was unhurt, and remind him to stay hidden. Then I'd call the cops and I'd have to tell them my story as well. Now five minutes have easily passed. Then local police contact Oslo.

[barracuda]

...presumably both the ambulance and the police would come from Honefoss.

Dradin, Google Maps says Honefoss is 20 kilometers from Utoya, and a 24 minute drive, so I have to assume for the ambulance to have arrived there in 9 minutes that they were somewhere in the area.

[stickdog99]

I guess what I'm saying is these things don't happen instantaneously. The kid spoke to his dad. What did he say? "Dad there's shooting here on the island!" Do you think his father immediately hung up the phone without further conversation? I don't. I'd find out more details, and make sure my kid was unhurt, and remind him to stay hidden. Then I'd call the cops and I'd have to tell them my story as well. Now five minutes have easily passed. Then local police contact Oslo.

LOL. Remind me never to call you in an emergency.

[barracuda]

Do you have any kids? I wouldn't hang up from that conversation without asking a few questions and giving some reassurance. I doubt seriously that many parents would. LOL yourself.