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JackRiddler wrote:Please use the quote function to distinguish my words (and those of others) from yours. Thank you.
vanlose kid wrote:is there an atheist who has read Dostoevsky?
Nowhere. But since that's the same place I suggested that you said it, I guess you're just going to have to practice tolerating agreement.vanlose kid wrote:I wrote: don't have one. I have a problem with the claim that atheism was identifiably an influence on Nazism. Because it's false.
I didn't see Jack conclusively say that. I saw him say "pro-Christian." And that struck me as an acceptably scrupulous way of avoiding saying they were Christian in context, although I wouldn't want to see anybody making a habit out of it when questions of religion weren't in play, They were fascists, Religiosity was definitely a part of their program Whether or not religion was is more debatable. But i'd probably say it was, personally.
And that being so, I guess I'd have to find some way of saying that the religion that happened to be lying around was Christianity without saying that Nazism was a Christian movement. Because it wasn't. And also without omitting to say that, in fact, the Nazis persecuted some Christians and suppressed some forms of Christianity. Because that's what happened.
I don't see how that's a disservice to theists. But if it is, I'm sure you'll let me know.
*****
where did i say it was a disservice to theists?
as for the part about nazis not being atheist or in any way influenced by atheists (Nietzsche, the superman)--woohoo! if you say so ma'am. you jus' mus' be rayt.
as for this: "that atheism was identifiably an influence on Nazism is false" i'm sure that you, like Jack, woould love to dictate what the truth is. i'll say, however, your claim that it is false is false. and that just like Jack you know it is.
82_28 wrote:There is such a thing called "Christian atheism" of which I figure I probably count as one.Jesus, although not seen as divine, is still a central feature of Christian atheism. Most Christian atheists think of Jesus as a wise and good man, accepting his moral teachings but rejecting the idea of his divinity. Hamilton said that to the Christian atheist, Jesus is not really the foundation of faith; instead he is a "place to be, a standpoint".[4] Christian atheists look to Jesus as an example of what a Christian should be, but they do not see him as a god.
Hamilton wrote that following Jesus means being "alongside the neighbor, being for him",[4] and that to follow Jesus means to be human, to help other humans, and to further mankind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. ... Now it seems to me obvious that He was neither a lunatic nor a fiend: and consequently, however strange or terrifying or unlikely it may seem, I have to accept the view that He was and is God." -- C.S. Lewis
A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
"Creation is not finished. Man is clearly approaching a phase of metamorphosis. The earlier human species has already reached the stage of dying out.... All of the force of creation will be concentrated in a new species... [which] will surpass infinitely modern man.... Do you understand now the profound meaning of our National Socialist movement?" (Adolf Hitler, quoted by Hermann Rauschning, _Hitler ma'a dit [Hitler Speaks]_ p.147, translated in _The Occult and the Third Reich_, Jean & Michel Angebert, p.178.)
"You'll think I'm crazy, but listen to me: Hitler will bring us to a catastrophe. But his ideas, once they have been transformed, will acquire a new strength." (Joseph Goebbels to his aide-de-camp, Prince Schaumburg-Lippe, quoted in Angeberts, p.234)
divideandconquer wrote:Hitler, Nazis, the religion of the blood and Nietzsche's overman.
The Third Reich was an occult-based religious movement to usher in the New Age. He was a great admirer of Helena Blavatsky and other occultists. Hitler hated Christianity and Catholics BUT he admired the discipline, doctrine, and pageantry of the Roman Catholic Chruch (Read Ominous Parallels by Leonard Peikoff ) And he obviously subscribed to Nietzsche "overman"
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