Drawing Lines Against Racism and Fascism

[jakell]

The Denver punk scene and the shifting face of Fascist organizing

http://rockymountainantifa.blogspot.com ... e.html?m=1

Oh god, they're back! It never goes away does it? There have to be a shit ton of disgruntled old skinheads in that city that have just exponentiated. They lost their perch it appeared when I moved to Seattle in the late 90s. Me and Twyla (sorry we couldn't hang out one last time ) have stories. One involves her sister who moved that way because of the white power scene. And I have my stories about skins that I have told here numerous times. In the 90s they came out of nowhere. Bummer.

You didn't really expect this sort of thing to go away did you?

It's this sort of expectation that feeds the inefficacy of a large part of the antifa scene, and the trouble is that this shouty simplicity still seems to dominate. Reference the anti's version of that podcast with the real thing and how they are so intent on inventing problems out of thin air that they overlook the real thing.

[jakell]

It's sad but true that when Jeff Wells was more actively involved with this place, characters like the above would be dealt with much more clearly and consistently in the light of principles consonant with those of the original post.

Oh, for those glorious days, yeah?

Back when you and Jeff would ride, side by side, laying down the Banhammer upon any and all who would take your posts seriously enough to actually engage with them.

I'd ask you to keep your fanfic historical revisionism to yourself, but damn it, I want to hear more. TELL US. TELL US OF THE TIMES BEFORE BEFORE.

TBH, it's the distortions presented that are instructive. A lot of the time we bemoan the extent to which TPTB and Mainstream media distorts things (ie, top down), and overlook it on a peer level.

[82_28]

AURORA, Colo., Feb. 22— Tall, handsome and affable, Shawn Slater is being groomed for a future in politics. He is only 25, but he already enjoys wide name recognition in Colorado, a supporting organization and a message he says is perfect for the 1990's: "Equal rights for all; special privileges for nobody."

Mr. Slater, who has announced a bid for City Council in this Denver suburb, is the state's head of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. "This is only the beginning," he said, sipping a cola in a shopping mall here. "I hope to be the governor of Colorado someday."

Such dreams might once have been dismissed with a derisive laugh. But the example of David Duke, the former Klan leader who made a serious run for governor in Louisiana, has left the Klan with a blueprint. Inspired by Mr. Duke's showing, the Klan has begun to cultivate savvy, clean-cut disciples to carry its updated message. On Love and Hate

Mr. Slater's shrewdness and talent for plain-spoken appeals has won praise from his tutor, Thomas Robb of Harrison, Ark., the national leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, who says the "new Klan" does not hate blacks, but "loves whites." Mr. Slater, he said, is "just the kind of bright, stable young man we think can articulate our viewpoint and reach a mass of people."

Mr. Slater's biggest career triumph came last month, after he won a court ruling to hold a Klan rally in Denver during a parade for the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. At the rally protesters began a melee that brought national television exposure.

Mr. Slater describes himself as a level-headed suburbanite who fears for his nation. He does not use racial slurs, at least during interviews, and he says he has black friends, though he was unable to produce the name of any. He said he did not allow his followers to wear Nazi insignia at Klan rallies. "I'm not a white supremacist," he said.

But his self-portrait omits a few elements. He hardly looked the picture of the earnest social conservative in his high school graduation picture, in which his hair was spiked and tinged with purple. And he was suspended from Smoky Hill High School in Aurora for wearing Nazi emblems.

Read the rest here:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/23/us/co ... wanted=all

That's the way it was. I pissed on skinheads around a bunch us punks -- a tale I already told. They never retaliated and in fact they renounced it soon there afterwards.

[jakell]

But it didn't go away did it? Too much antifa material revolves around these sort of 'set pieces' and war stories, it barely achieves anything apart from a sense of short lived victory

[Wombaticus Rex]

Such dreams might once have been dismissed with a derisive laugh. But the example of David Duke, the former Klan leader who made a serious run for governor in Louisiana, has left the Klan with a blueprint.

Well, sweet white jeebus, they sure don't use it very often.

That's probably a function of how difficult it is for the KKK to recruit photogenic men who can speak in public without any teeth falling out, to be fair. Perhaps Mr. Slater is just the first such specimen they've had since 1989.

[Iamwhomiam]

^^^^ Quite so. I was astonished by Dukes' success. The future is gonna be very interesting, but strange. (said in the voice of Arte Johnson).

[82_28]

LOL. Totally. But they came out of thin air, so to speak. I think it was maybe in those days what music got to you first. It was mix tape time back then. I remember a show that this skinhead dude I was hanging out with along with others (it was hard to parse back then!) and he said let's go to this show downtown and beat up the hippies in the moshpit. I wasn't down but was young and possibly impressionable. I instantly fell in love with the band and still love my memories of them. My band played with them a few times. This is a sample of the music skins loved to go to in order to hurt people. I present to you Lord Groovy and the Psychodelic Zombiez. Enjoy.



Everyone dumped that kid right quick. Bear in mind half of that band went to the same high school known as Columbine. About 5 years before the massacre. I can tell you there was a "battle" between fierce anti-racists and the racists in Denver back then. There's way more to it. Funk and Jazz stuff sorta pushed them out. It was big in Denver back then. Since I spent a half of a day trying to digitize this yesterday I'll just share it, these guys (82_28 singing) opened for them a number of times.

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T0A70 ... ad/sgb.mp3

A lot of music came out of Denver in those days that was similar to that. Like 92-97. . .

[American Dream]

So I guess neo-fascist causes are able to channel young men's anger and violence into a belonging, a group identity. It probably helps to find confused/hurting kids who are impressionable.

Definitely lots of violent racist/fascist type skins do leave and they never come back.

I wonder what makes the difference?

[jakell]

LOL. Totally. But they came out of thin air, so to speak. I think it was maybe in those days what music got to you first. It was mix tape time back then. I remember a show that this skinhead dude I was hanging out with along with others (it was hard to parse back then!) and he said let's go to this show downtown and beat up the hippies in the moshpit. I wasn't down but was young and possibly impressionable. I instantly fell in love with the band and still love my memories of them. My band played with them a few times. This is a sample of the music skins loved to go to in order to hurt people. I present to you Lord Groovy and the Psychodelic Zombiez. Enjoy.



Everyone dumped that kid right quick. Bear in mind half of that band went to the same high school known as Columbine. About 5 years before the massacre. I can tell you there was a "battle" between fierce anti-racists and the racists in Denver back then. There's way more to it. Funk and Jazz stuff sorta pushed them out. It was big in Denver back then. Since I spent a half of a day trying to digitize this yesterday I'll just share it, these guys (82_28 singing) opened for them a number of times.

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T0A70 ... ad/sgb.mp3

A lot of music came out of Denver in those days that was similar to that. Like 92-97. . .

Nothing has come out of thin air, everything we see has come about fairly organically. Possibly you took your eye off of the ball, or even never did and were distracted by brief street scuffles thinking that was the real deal.

Granted, I took my eye off of the ball between 2004 and 2009 (when the BNP started making significant electoral gains) but made sure I properly got to grips again and learned the new landscape, and it was certainly different to the old landscape.

[82_28]

So I guess neo-fascist causes are able to channel young men's anger and violence into a belonging, a group identity. It probably helps to find confused/hurting kids who are impressionable.

Definitely lots of violent racist/fascist type skins do leave and they never come back.

I wonder what makes the difference?

Probably shame. But if there is no one else left to shame them, who will? In this era of trump we have on our hands along with BLM it seems somewhat insurmountable.

Look, I knew skinheads who would routinely put on brass knuckles and when someone they didn't like walked away they would punch them full force in the back of the head. Kids became scared and didn't want to cross them. I was "safe" because I was liked by basically everybody. But everyone would whisper around when the big skinheads would roll up and by big I mean their names got around and they were treated like a scary form of royalty.

Not to bring it up again but I had to save skinheads' lives before because of what they did to us. These kids don't know what they are doing now. They didn't know then. Someone prompts them to act like this. It doesn't emerge from a vacuum.

[82_28]

LOL. Totally. But they came out of thin air, so to speak. I think it was maybe in those days what music got to you first. It was mix tape time back then. I remember a show that this skinhead dude I was hanging out with along with others (it was hard to parse back then!) and he said let's go to this show downtown and beat up the hippies in the moshpit. I wasn't down but was young and possibly impressionable. I instantly fell in love with the band and still love my memories of them. My band played with them a few times. This is a sample of the music skins loved to go to in order to hurt people. I present to you Lord Groovy and the Psychodelic Zombiez. Enjoy.



Everyone dumped that kid right quick. Bear in mind half of that band went to the same high school known as Columbine. About 5 years before the massacre. I can tell you there was a "battle" between fierce anti-racists and the racists in Denver back then. There's way more to it. Funk and Jazz stuff sorta pushed them out. It was big in Denver back then. Since I spent a half of a day trying to digitize this yesterday I'll just share it, these guys (82_28 singing) opened for them a number of times.

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T0A70 ... ad/sgb.mp3

A lot of music came out of Denver in those days that was similar to that. Like 92-97. . .

Nothing has come out of thin air, everything we see has come about fairly organically. Possibly you took your eye off of the ball, or even never did and were distracted by brief street scuffles thinking that was the real deal.

Granted, I took my eye off of the ball between 2004 and 2009 (when the BNP started making significant electoral gains) but made sure I properly got to grips again and learned the new landscape, and it was certainly different to the old landscape.

Dude that was my whole fucking point. I knew of no one growing up who were totally raised that way. Some incursion happened along the way and it was out of my sight. I only detected the symptoms -- like is so and so a skin now? type shit. It was totally cheesy but I would wear one of those colored leather Africa necklaces. Also never been in a "scuffle" or fight.

I think that kids sorta conflate their experiences at the time with the "real world" that they know nothing about yet. They know what they know up to that point in their lives. It is very convoluted but should be suggested it must not fester.

[jakell]

LOL. Totally. But they came out of thin air, so to speak. I think it was maybe in those days what music got to you first. It was mix tape time back then. I remember a show that this skinhead dude I was hanging out with along with others (it was hard to parse back then!) and he said let's go to this show downtown and beat up the hippies in the moshpit. I wasn't down but was young and possibly impressionable. I instantly fell in love with the band and still love my memories of them. My band played with them a few times. This is a sample of the music skins loved to go to in order to hurt people. I present to you Lord Groovy and the Psychodelic Zombiez. Enjoy.



Everyone dumped that kid right quick. Bear in mind half of that band went to the same high school known as Columbine. About 5 years before the massacre. I can tell you there was a "battle" between fierce anti-racists and the racists in Denver back then. There's way more to it. Funk and Jazz stuff sorta pushed them out. It was big in Denver back then. Since I spent a half of a day trying to digitize this yesterday I'll just share it, these guys (82_28 singing) opened for them a number of times.

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T0A70 ... ad/sgb.mp3

A lot of music came out of Denver in those days that was similar to that. Like 92-97. . .

Nothing has come out of thin air, everything we see has come about fairly organically. Possibly you took your eye off of the ball, or even never did and were distracted by brief street scuffles thinking that was the real deal.

Granted, I took my eye off of the ball between 2004 and 2009 (when the BNP started making significant electoral gains) but made sure I properly got to grips again and learned the new landscape, and it was certainly different to the old landscape.

Dude that was my whole fucking point. I knew of no one growing up who were totally raised that way. Some incursion happened along the way and it was out of my sight. I only detected the symptoms -- like is so and so a skin now? type shit. It was totally cheesy but I would wear one of those colored leather Africa necklaces. Also never been in a "scuffle" or fight.

I think that kids sorta conflate their experiences at the time with the "real world" that they know nothing about yet. They know what they know up to that point in their lives. It is very convoluted but should be suggested it must not fester.

So. would you agree that nothing went away, it just hung around? I haven't found the 'incursion' you speak of difficult to see to see and understand

In the UK it's been as bit easier for us as it has been mainly linked to visible parties with a noticeable history, or can be seen on the edges of them with a bit of detective work.
I know the situation in the US is different, White Nationalism qualitatively different to British Nationalism, but I'm sure, like me, that invisibility was due to taking your eye off of the ball.

[82_28]

I would say this:

This was before the widespread use of the Internet. Everybody was just getting their first AOL coasters to install on their 386s. There had to be recruiters. Who they were I do not know. I know of figures back over 20 years ago, but I never consorted with them. I know they affected some kids because they did. Overnight some kids went from happy go lucky well, kids, and then said they were members of the KKK. I know that one of the most violent skins had his father as like a sergeant for DPD, know the name but won't mention. I knew of others whose fathers were illegal weapons dealers. I knew of some kid who was the most feared of them all who would show up to malls and talk around. Never got involved other than notice it. I was at a show at this skatepark where the skins came barging in, hands in the air, maced us and then broke the black singer's arm. Turned into a riot where I and this other guy had to somehow stop the riot because the skin was about to be killed. Went to the hospital where all the other skins ran off to because my friend got hurt. I wound up getting into an argument in the waiting room with the skins as they told us we were "race traitors" -- that was actually the first I'd ever heard of that term. I went to prom/homecoming (whatever) with basically the only black girl at my school, but did not pursue the relationship because of fear of the racists. Which was hella stupid cos she was hot and very smart. One of my best friends was black and female and her dad never trusted me. I'd go to her house and they wouldn't let me in because of fear. I was lucky that they would let her go with me to wherever it is we would go. Racism was nuts back then in Denver.

This guy ruled the roost:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Tancredo

Bear in mind, this was totally from a school that had at the most only three black kids out of a body of 2.5k. It's why the SouthPark guys have the character of "Token". I can always tell exactly what they are talking about.

[jakell]

Yes, before the far right grasped internet usage it was quite different, in fact I regard those days as ancient history as things really changed. In the UK this switch sort of coincided with the move of the BNP from hardline ethnonationalism to a broader and less extreme exterior, so out went the nazi symbolism, hitler salutes, and in-your-face racism. With this came a bigger membership too who craved an ideological basis, internal debate and nuances within nationalism.

When I've spoken of antifascism on here, it's been primarily about the more ideological age, where the far right's ideology and proponents have been accessible via the internet. To those who see this as too abstract, I would say that it is this area which is the basis of any successes they have these days. It has certainly been a vehicle for the spread of White Nationalism to Europe where it was previously regarded as a largely American oddity.

The far-right have altered in this way, but as far as I can see, their opponents haven't much and continue to inflate fascist threats from thin foundations and therefore looking in the wrong directions. This was what I was getting in my post regarding 'Heathen Harvest' on the previous page, which AD seemed to object to for some unstated reason

[American Dream]

These two should be of deep political interest in regards to racist/fascist organizing in Colorado:



Wade Michael Page


Bill White