‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:53 pm

guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:42 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:38 pm wrote:
guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:27 pm wrote:
That Burnt Hill & others are not able to tell the difference between a willingness to look at the evidence presented by various media and analyze it with taking a position of belief is further proof, if proof were needed, of the false dichotomizations that proliferate in times of liminality, when ideology takes over feelings, feelings pass for opinions, opinions get presented as facts, and facts pose as truth.


All that presumptuousness because I took issue with your posting of a Sorcha Faal article and think the video is a hoax?
When I even said other aspects of the discussion were worthy.
Again you are doing what you deride in others.
Come down off your high horse.

The proof of the insincerity of this latest accusation is that you did not choose to focus on the aspects of the discussion that you consider worthy, so I, for one, don't even know what they might be. Why don't you try doing that, as an experiment, and see what sort of results you get? (Just a suggestion)


Again, I clearly stated that discussion of ritual sacrifice and CERN, and I will add media analysis/reaction, are valid.
Using a Sorcha Faal article to validate the video or the analysis is silly.
I am quite sincere.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:13 pm

dada » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:48 pm wrote:Really I'm posting because I want to throw my two cents into the Crowley blood sacrifice discussion. What I get out of it is he's speaking purely symbolic metaphor here, and always. If you don't get it, you misunderstand him, and he's not going to explain it to you. 'Magick' is seeing through appearances to the substance, and acting with a firm grounding in that clear view. 'Blood sacrifice' is cutting down cherished wrong ideas.

The Rosy Cross stuff is both sex, and also interaction between the self and other. Also the continuous act of falling in love, like Rumi and his beloved. It depends on how you look at it. These are poetic concepts, they make 'sense' when looked at poetically.

Reading 'the formula of the rosy cross' as sex with someone you love is particularly insightful, I think. Throws a passage like this in a very different light:

"It is unwise for him to attempt it until he has received regular initiation in the true Order of the Rosy Cross, {97} and he must have taken the vows with the fullest comprehension and experience of their meaning. It is also extremely desirable that he should have attained an absolute degree of moral emancipation, and that purity of spirit which results from a perfect understanding both of the differences and harmonies of the planes upon the Tree of Life.

For this reason FRATER PERDURABO has never dared to use this formula in a fully ceremonial manner, save once only, on an occasion of tremendous import, when, indeed, it was not He that made the offering, but ONE in Him. For he perceived a grave defect in his moral character which he has been able to overcome on the intellectual plane, but not hitherto upon higher planes. Before the conclusion of writing this book he will have done so."

Here's some relevant material, I think. I googled 'Borges blood as symbol,' then clicked through to The Mythmaker: A study of the short stories of Jorge Luis Borges, by Carter Wheelock at google books.

>cut link that blows margins<

Personally, I apply this blood sacrifice thing to writing. The knife is the editing blade. Edit what I cling to as the 'good ideas.' The energy released is the substance beneath the ideas, which I incorporate into better writing. Because I'm growing, what I write now is always better than what I wrote last week. When I wear my editor hat, I have to be dispassionate, brutal.


Excellent exposition of Crowley's blood sacrifice, dada.

Crowley's writings on blood sacrifice are far from unique nor new and maybe are off topic for this specific discussion of what occurred at CERN except for the most general.

Sorcha Faal :bigsmile

Who Is Sorcha Faal

Main Writer of the Site What Does It Mean ?

PURPOSE

The Purpose of this brief document is to alert the innocent and uninformed Internet Navigators of the dangers of deception with the intent of mind manipulation.

BACKGROUND

The site What Does It Mean? presents itself as a legitimate news media source, with inside information, which explains to the unaware public the real meaning of what appears on the mainstream news.

more at: http://www.mgr.org/AboutSorchaFaal.html

CONCLUSION

It may wise to stay as far away from Sorcha Faal and her What Does It Mean? disinformation empire as well as from any domain, blog or alternative news page which may use anything published by them.

Published on March 19, 2015
Last edited by PufPuf93 on Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby OP ED » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:19 pm

Heh. Crowley's merely discussing buggery. Its actually not his fault, though he possessed many, that he lived among those who could find a discussion of human sacrifice less insidious than passages about homosexuality and masturbation. (He was threatened with jailing for his lifestyle on several occasions, so he had ample cause for concerns)

.....

If the story is entirely a prank, and CERN knows the identities of those involved, they may not be permitted to divulge this information, particularly if no threat to public health exists. You assume much when you assume you are naturally entitled to the identity of everyone posting on YouTube.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:29 pm

guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:27 pm wrote:
That Burnt Hill & others are not able to tell the difference between a willingness to look at the evidence presented by various media and analyze it with taking a position of belief is further proof, if proof were needed, of the false dichotomizations that proliferate in times of liminality, when ideology takes over feelings, feelings pass for opinions, opinions get presented as facts, and facts pose as truth. There's nothing to be gained by arguing logically with emotional ideology, as the current back & forth shows. The only thing to do is ignore.

For the record, I do not believe the video shows an actual murder; I simply know that I don't know what it shows and think that its significance, in terms of a recent artifact relating to various themes that have been explored at RI since its inception, makes it worthy of attention.


This is so typical. For the public record, guruilla and Mac engaged me and made personal comments. I throw it right back at them and now it's reduced to something to ignore. Yeah, don't start shit and make it personal and we wont go through this, will we?

Seriously, let's look at my two posts and see how silly this whole thing is:

Novem5er » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:50 pm wrote:If a person was stabbed in the neck and then dropped to the ground, would there be a growing pool of blood?

Would that blood still be there the next morning? Or do you think the cultists would have brought mops and buckets to clean up afterward?

If a person just witnessed a crime (and honestly believed that there WAS a crime) wouldn't they call the police immediately instead of uploading a video to youtube?

Are there probably video surveillance on the CERN campus that could clear up any questions about who arrived and who left the scene (or carried a body off)?

I think if someone were to believe that there was an actual murder in that video, they'd have to believe that CERN officials would then be covering up the crime. That's a possibility, I suppose.


and

Novem5er » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:40 pm wrote:What's so funny about it? It's funny that with maybe $100 (in cloaks) and an hour of planning, a group of friends can get internet-famous (anonymously) and spend a few weeks laughing at the analysis. It's called trolling.

I think it's worthy of analysis, but after that analysis, it's not surprising that most people think it's a hoax. The sneakers. The hooded figured obstructing the camera. The convenient breaking away of the shot. The lack of detailed (aka graphic) footage. It has all the hallmarks of a prank.

And, of course, that doesn't MEAN it was a prank - it just looks like one. So, without anything more to go on, how can people be blamed for shrugging their shoulders and moving on?

How could we make this more like "Old RI"? Should we just go along and say "omg! So real! Yes, this proves CERN is up to no good!" ?



Yes, these are the posts that got told me to basically screw-off of this thread, and that my judgement was so "obviously" unqualified to have an opinion on the subject. Some of y'all have some obvious emotional problems and I'm going to do my best to steer clear.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby backtoiam » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:52 pm

The whole thing looks like a big hoax to me. Of course I see the Shiva reference and I fully understand it. So what? It looks like a prank to me. A school prank....like putting bubbles in a fountain...(yawn)
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby conniption » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:30 pm

Previous RI threads on CERN:

Kung fu nuns teach cosmic energy to CERN scientists
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Fri Nov 16, 2012
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_______

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by Simulist
Mon Dec 12, 2011
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Views: 5195
_______

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22 September 2011 Last updated at 13:28 ET Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern By Jason Palmer Science and technology reporter, BBC News Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles ...

by Jeff
Thu Sep 22, 2011
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Replies: 25
Views: 1537
_______

CERN lists historic catch of antimatter
'CERN lists historic catch of antimatter' Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:29AM Physicists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) say they have managed to ensnare and store atoms of antimatter for the first time. Scientists ...

by Ben D
Thu Nov 18, 2010
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Replies: 1
Views: 94
_______


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... existence of concepts long dear to science-fiction writers such as hidden worlds and extra dimensions. And as their Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN near Geneva moves into high gear, they are talking increasingly of the "New Physics" on the horizon that could totally change current ...

by Jeff
Sat Oct 23, 2010
8:23 am
Replies: 18
Views: 1740
_______

CERN to create ice-9?
... Grail and found this: http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125 Abstract. We have received and will show in this article astonishing documents leaked out of CERN internal servers, about the CASTOR project, a Centauro and STrangelet Object Research to hunt for strangelets ‘likely‘ to be produced at the LHC. ...

by Twyla LaSarc
Sat Oct 09, 2010
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Views: 389
_______

'High level' al Qaeda suspect was Cern LHC physicist
Al-Qaeda suspect was Cern nuclear researcher plotting attacks on France A "high level" al-Qaeda suspect who provided data on terror targets in France and expressed a "desire to carry out an attack" was yesterday ...

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Fri Oct 09, 2009
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Replies: 1
Views: 365

_______

LHC warmup: Cern lab goes 'colder than space'
Cern lab goes 'colder than space' By Paul Rincon Science reporter, BBC News A vast physics experiment built in a tunnel below the French-Swiss border is fast becoming one of the coolest places in the Universe. The Large Hadron ...

by Jeff
Sat Jul 19, 2008
1:46 pm
Replies: 35
Views: 2461
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:54 pm

^^^^^^^^
I just made a CERN post in the Global Warming thread.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:08 pm

dada » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:48 pm wrote:Really I'm posting because I want to throw my two cents into the Crowley blood sacrifice discussion. What I get out of it is he's speaking purely symbolic metaphor here, and always. If you don't get it, you misunderstand him, and he's not going to explain it to you. 'Magick' is seeing through appearances to the substance, and acting with a firm grounding in that clear view. 'Blood sacrifice' is cutting down cherished wrong ideas.

PufPuf93 wrote:Excellent exposition of Crowley's blood sacrifice, dada.

OP ED » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:19 pm wrote:Heh. Crowley's merely discussing buggery. Its actually not his fault, though he possessed many, that he lived among those who could find a discussion of human sacrifice less insidious than passages about homosexuality and masturbation. (He was threatened with jailing for his lifestyle on several occasions, so he had ample cause for concerns)

What a load of bollocks. Crowley-ites are something to behold, the hardest part is figuring out which parts are whitewash and which are only hogwash.

AC is known to have committed blood sacrifice on at least three occasions (toad, goat, & cat, even his latest hagiographer Richard "OTO" Kazysinski doesn't try and hide that fact), never mind the social context which is that ritual blood sacrifice has been prevalent throughout all recorded history and can be found at the very inception of society, modern occultism just being the latest revamping of those "traditions." But the neoliberal set wants us to believe that it's all just a metaphor and that only the uninitiated or credulous would take it literally (and that it's on their fool heads if they do). 'Scuse me while I barf. Reality distortion of this sort is a truly heinous thing to behold.

But: it's off topic & I only point it out in such strong terms & risk losing even more favor than I have already because, well, impressionable minds might be lurking at this thread and actually buy into this crap. Word to the wise: don't.

OK: :backtotopic:
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:46 pm

It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:59 pm

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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:18 pm

guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:08 pm wrote:
dada » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:48 pm wrote:Really I'm posting because I want to throw my two cents into the Crowley blood sacrifice discussion. What I get out of it is he's speaking purely symbolic metaphor here, and always. If you don't get it, you misunderstand him, and he's not going to explain it to you. 'Magick' is seeing through appearances to the substance, and acting with a firm grounding in that clear view. 'Blood sacrifice' is cutting down cherished wrong ideas.

PufPuf93 wrote:Excellent exposition of Crowley's blood sacrifice, dada.

OP ED » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:19 pm wrote:Heh. Crowley's merely discussing buggery. Its actually not his fault, though he possessed many, that he lived among those who could find a discussion of human sacrifice less insidious than passages about homosexuality and masturbation. (He was threatened with jailing for his lifestyle on several occasions, so he had ample cause for concerns)

What a load of bollocks. Crowley-ites are something to behold, the hardest part is figuring out which parts are whitewash and which are only hogwash.

AC is known to have committed blood sacrifice on at least three occasions (toad, goat, & cat, even his latest hagiographer Richard "OTO" Kazysinski doesn't try and hide that fact), never mind the social context which is that ritual blood sacrifice has been prevalent throughout all recorded history and can be found at the very inception of society, modern occultism just being the latest revamping of those "traditions." But the neoliberal set wants us to believe that it's all just a metaphor and that only the uninitiated or credulous would take it literally (and that it's on their fool heads if they do). 'Scuse me while I barf. Reality distortion of this sort is a truly heinous thing to behold.

But: it's off topic & I only point it out in such strong terms & risk losing even more favor than I have already because, well, impressionable minds might be lurking at this thread and actually buy into this crap. Word to the wise: don't.

OK: :backtotopic:


I am not a Crowley-ite and never have been (as I have mentioned). I am a book collector that met some Thelemites along the way and thought they were interesting and OK people.

dada made a very specific and excellent exposition of blood sacrifice.

OP ED was not close to spot on but dada hit the target.

Note that up thread I made mention that the concept of blood and life force capture had been omitted in the wiki link posted and no one else had yet to mention that aspect which I also stated was relevant to CERN.

I noted that ritual blood sacrifice was not something unique nor new when Crowley wrote Magick in Theory and Practice. Do you realize that Crowley has nearly as much text in footnotes in the Chapter you cited from Magick in Theory and Practice in the original edition (Lecram Press 1929)? Crowley states that it is an ancient ritual and cites Frazier's Golden Bough and other sources.

So Crowley sacrificed a toad and a cat and a goat. He was if nothing else professional at being an unsavory person. That does not mean that I approve nor find it other than distasteful or even that practice is followed by Thelemites. Sounds like something a creepy person would consider much less do. It also does not mean that Crowley murdered babies in blood sacrifice. None of the many Crowley researchers, often far more qualified and balanced than you, have taken that vein in any seriousness. You look for material that supports your suppositions and expect echoes. One can find other individuals following dogma in current time and not so recent past that were much more successful in their corruption and inflicted horror than Crowley.

There was no good reason to even bring Crowley up in this thread except your own fixation.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby guruilla » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:22 pm

guruilla » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:47 pm wrote:Here's a thought: what if the "pranksters" were staging a kind of whistleblowers' theater?


I think maybe the above got lost in the shuffle. It only occurred to me as I was writing that post & I figured it was self-explanatory; but in case it wasn’t, what I meant by it was: suppose the enactment was orchestrated by people within CERN who wanted to make a subversive/disruptive statement about the organization regarding things going on there, in the style of Anonymous, i.e., activism as theater? The aim might not even be to draw attention to the possibility of CERN being involved in ritual sacrifice (they might have deduced that people wouldn’t believe the act was real) but to embarrass and discredit the org by showing up its security, and making its staff look like a bunch of frat boys. It’s not hard to imagine high-level CERN operatives, assuming they weren’t in on it and being directed from higher up, getting a serious dressing down from their superodinates.

Various governments are investing billions of $ into CERN research, and they have the eyes of the world on them. Something like this is not supposed to happen. In this sense, it doesn’t make sense for people to be dismissing this as just a prank, because as a prank, it must be having some serious repercussions. Even leaving aside the highly charged content of the enactment (ritual murder, which is something that has been connected to NATO, & NASA, and other orgs; & occultism which has been linked to high-level government operatives like Aquino and Parsons), there’s still the matter of where it occurred and who it involved. CERN & CERN scientists are entrusted with some of the most groundbreaking research in the history of humankind, so this has got to be cause for concern, right? So how come it’s just a “spoof” for which some wrists are going to be seriously slapped?

As Agitprop Theater, it might not even relate to whistleblowing; it could be internal power struggle of some sort… This is just a hypothesis but at least it has the potential to dissolve the false dichotomy of prank vs. murder by introducing a third option.

Another thing I wanted to bring the discussion back to was Mac’s point about class being an unrecognized factor, both in the event and how it is being perceived. As Mac pointed out, we associate knife murders with black kids in ghettos or white trash on housing estates, not with the ruling class or the intellectual elite. This is a major disadvantage we are at, I think, when it comes to interpreting the motions of the ruling class (& is it far-fetched to wonder if, to work at CERN you would have to come from good stock and go through some sort of initiation ritual, a la Skull & Bones?): most of us have no inside knowledge of these sphere & we rely on the impression we’ve been led to adopt by that same class. We don’t associate the intelligentsia with crime (even if we are parapolitically savvy, we still don’t automatically make the link between high status and criminal behavior the way we do between low and same); and we don’t associate them with occult rituals, because we assume they are all secular-minded and scoff at all that stuff. But if we correct that lens according to what we know (some of us anyway), and think of this thing occurring within an intelligentsia elite who are largely comfortable with committing crimes, high and maybe low too, and who participate in occult practices, to one degree or another, how does the picture change?

I think I had another point, but I forgot what it was.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:52 pm

CERN employs over 10,000 scientists at any one time.

Things to consider when hypothesizing about the working of CERN- from the people that actually work there-

André David, PhD in Experimental Particle Physics=

I have a very physics-centric view, very orthogonal to Daniel Lobato García's.
CERN is a place where you can make all sorts of geeky jokes and not be frustrated.
It's a place where the library is open 24/7/365.
It's a place where the contents of what you say matters, regardless of your age, gender, attire, or status.
It's a place where negative results are also important; i.e., there is no shame in publishing that you have looked for something and did not find it.
It's a place where the scientific method is employed in many areas, from metallurgy, to metrology, to computing, to physics.
It's a place where you can speak 5 languages in one day without breaking a sweat.
It's a place where your colleagues' nationality, cultural quirks, or political views are not as important as what they can contribute to get the problem you are both working on solved.
It's a great place to work.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-work-at-CERN
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby dada » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:06 am

Well, I truly do hope the scientists aren't all adult children playing with expensive toys, and the place isn't run by the equivalent of the Dean from Animal House. I like science. I'm rooting for your team, guys.

---

"But the neoliberal set wants us to believe that it's all just a metaphor and that only the uninitiated or credulous would take it literally (and that it's on their fool heads if they do). 'Scuse me while I barf. Reality distortion of this sort is a truly heinous thing to behold."

I think you may have meant 'postmodern' and not 'neoliberal.' Just trying to help.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:20 am

I got called a neoliberal on this board, once. Strange because I've never been an advocate for globalization, free trade, and deregulation . . .

but back on topic (as has been said a few times here lol):

Here's a video of the sacrifice that has been cleaned up, some, zoomed in and slowed down. It's still not entirely clear where the girl is "stabbed", but the video guy makes the case that she is stabbed in the gap between her body and her arm (i.e. no real contact). It does seem clear, to me, that only the tip of the knife ever gets close. It looks like about a 4" blade and maybe an inch or two make "contact". The cultists hand never gets close to the body, i.e. he isn't burying that short blade to the hilt. It's also clear that the lead cultist bought a robe that was about six inches too short, favors over-the-ankle socks, and Vans shoes (or close enough).

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