Russian-Ukrainian War: Live Thread

[drstrangelove]

Live NATO presser:

[JackRiddler]

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Far as I know, RT is off the air in the United States.

As of this evening, we see a screen that reads:

This channel is no longer available on DISH

(Everyone, please download the RI backup... haven't had a chance myself!)

-update-

For the moment, RT's livestreaming on Youtube.

[JackRiddler]

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CNN has announced it will stop broadcasting in Russia. That's the 'breaking' part here. Now the comment.

To get the easy laughs out of the way: we can all imagine how microscopic their ratings there must be.

Motherfucker, just before the U.S. rained death on the Iraqi people, there was still an arrangement to have GHWB deliver a live address on Iraqi TV, and Saddam Hussein to do the same on the American networks.

Italian university canceled a course on Dostoevsky, that famous Soviet Putinist. What's it matter how many years he did in Siberia? He's ruh, ruh, RUSSIAN! A dead one! Still being read, sort of!

And good thing they've stop handicapped kids from playing games at the Paralympics! That's show them!

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[MacCruiskeen]

Live NATO presser:

Message in German: "This video is not available in your country." No explanation.

[RocketMan]

Live NATO presser:

Message in German: "This video is not available in your country." No explanation.

Same here. Is this Sputnik/RT?

[MacCruiskeen]

Of course football too must be gleichgeschaltet. Of course virtue must be signaled, and of course we can trust our Leaders to decide for us exactly what's virtuous and what isn't.

Who the fuck comes up with these ideas and imposes them on clubs, players and fans?

What would happen to a team captain who refused to wear the armband?

What would happen to a fan who, after "a moment of reflection", decided he did not in fact feel complete "solidarity" with this circus and expressed his opinion vocally?

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/976/cpsprodpb/7A8B/production/_123517313_gettyimages-1238807371.jpg

... The [English] Premier League has said it "wholeheartedly rejects Russia's actions" and is set to show solidarity with Ukraine.

"We call for peace and our thoughts are with all those who have been impacted," it added, when announcing its plans earlier this week.

That will include captains wearing special armbands in Ukrainian colours, while stadium screens will display 'Football Stands Together' in front of the country's blue and yellow flag.

Fans have also been encouraged to join "a moment of reflection and solidarity before kick-off at each game". ...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60524865

Only two years into the coup and we've reached the stage where certain people are compelled to wear armbands. That's worth a moment of reflection.

[alloneword]

Message in German: "This video is not available in your country." No explanation.

Same here. Is this Sputnik/RT?

Ruptly - so yes, RT.

I'm currently using VPN exit nodes in Moldova and can view everything (inc FB & Twatter) with no problems. I'd noticed NATO doesn't appear to overfly Moldova for some reason. A week ago I didn't even know Moldova existed, now I want to move there.

If they ban FB & Twatter too, I just might.

[drstrangelove]

Furious Zelensky tears into "weak" NATO for ruling out "no-fly" zone
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky accused NATO leadership of giving the "green light for further bombing of Ukrainian cities" by refusing at Friday's summit to establish a "no-fly" zone over Ukraine, saying those who oppose the move bear responsibility for civilian deaths going forward.

- https://www.axios.com/ukraine-nato-no-f ... 6254b.html.



I imagine that extraordinary' NATO meeting was just diplomatic posturing.

[Gnomad]

I did not think I would see the day when so many posters on Rigorous seem to be saying that Russia Today is objective reporting from a justified russian invasion.

Do you remember how Putin got to power originally? By having russian apartment buildings be blown up, to then blame Chechenia and to start a war there to gain popularity?

And that he has now been the sole dictator in Russia ever since?

But this is all western aggression?

Unarmed civilians meeting armed soldiers in the russian occupied cities? Do you really think regular citizens would put their lives in danger if they really did not feel like defending their homes?

Ukraine has had their independence for a bit longer than Finland had when Soviet Union invaded. Also the Soviets thought that they would just march to Helsinki in a couple of days (they even had marching bands with them for the victory celebrations) and the Finns would cheer them on as liberators. They did not, and what is going on with the population in Ukraine seems just the same.

And of course back then it was also Finland that shelled Soviet Union in Mainila. Of course it was.

Back then it was mostly Ukrainian conscripts who got massacred on Finnish soil. Humans who had been forced there against their will, just like the poor russian conscripts now forced to die for their not-very dear leader.

And I am mostly watching what regular people post on Reddit and the like.
I do not watch any mainstream news, and definitely not state Russian news. That would be like getting your news on CNN and Fox.

The finnish Yle (Finnish public broadcaster) Russia correspondent is a personal friend though, I know I can trust what he reports - I have known the man since I was 16.

I am also a conscription refuser - we still have mandatory conscription in Finland because of Russia. I refused and did civil service for 13 months instead (aka free social work). I refused because I refuse to swear any kind of loyalty to any state, and refuse to kill on orders. One can still defend what one believes in, if it seems necessary.

Of course NATO has its own plans.
That does not change the fact that clearly Ukrainians want to decide for themselves, on their own land.

It really makes me mad that after what Putin has done, NATO is more popular than ever in Finland now. Only about 25% of people have supported joining NATO until now. Now, with Putins urging, it has gone way above 50% and there are two petitions to government to join, with both over the necessary 50 000 signees.

[MacCruiskeen]

I did not think I would see the day when so many posters on Rigorous seem to be saying that Russia Today is objective reporting from a justified russian invasion.

Hi, Gnomad. "So many posters" - really? Can you quote even one RI poster who has said or even insinuated such a thing?

[Gnomad]

Or maybe I misunderstood all the posts about RT feeds.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mi ... 0EPUcMpDXc

Map from Poland, this is all regular people offering to house and help refugees.
Also EU decided that all Ukrainians can stay in EU without applying for refugee status, for one year at least according to principle of General Protection.

What gives me some hope is grassroots movements all around Europe, of normal people wanting to help - several people in Finland too have organized buses to transport ukrainian refugees from Poland to Finland.
People are also reminding to not vent frustration at russians who live in Finland - the war is not their fault either. Finnish - Russian trainline Allegro has also been packed full the last week and all trains are sold out, russians who are able to come here do now. The train is the only way now as flights have been banned.

[MacCruiskeen]

I am still free to visit the websites of CNN, BBC, Fox, Reuters, ARD, and countless other news organisations I don't like and don't trust to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. In fact, on every major issue from 9/11 to "Covid" they have functioned as propagandists, as defenders & propagators of state lies. I find it useful, at times essential, to know what stories these liars are selling. And sometimes they even tell truths I wouldn't necessarily hear from RT, for instance.

I would like to have the same freedom to visit RT, Especially when a war with Russia has just broken out on my doorstep and the Western propaganda machine never stops telling me what to think, feel and believe about it.

[Gnomad]

Ok, fair enough.

One old personal anecdote on media... This was when I was doing my civil service (so about 25 years ago). Two civil service men were sent to prison that year, one for being late to his assigned work place twice for ten minutes, another one for taking an unsanctioned smoke break.

Most civil service men decided to go on a day long strike to protest - and such a strike is illegal and could theoretically be used as a reason to put all participants in prison (though nobody expected that to happen).

I asked for permission to partake in the demonstration that day in the capital, and went to work in the morning until the time of the demo. I got permission from the kindergarten where I worked.

There was a reporter for Ilta-Sanomat (kind of like Daily Mail here), and he asked me what I did for service. I said I work in childrens day care. Then he snidely said that "Whos gonna look after the kids now that you are on strike?". I told him I am not on strike, I worked the morning, and had permission to be here.

Then he asked if I protest the length of service (shortest army is 6 months, longest 12, and civil was 13 months). I said no, I protest that the city is not paying for my housing as it should by law, and I have had to pay rent out of my own pocket, and I would gladly serve if this was done lawfully. At this point the "reporter" realized he is not going to get what he wants to put in the paper next day, turns around while I am still speaking to him, picks a group of 3 guys who think civil service is too long and who are actually on strike.

Next days paper had only their comments, and not mine. I'll never forget that.

A couple years later, my friend were beaten by the police in Gothenburg, protesting the EU meetings and George Bush. The same Ilta-Sanomat had a picture of police with horses riding over protesters, with the caption "Police had to use force to repel attacking protesters."

The picture was actually from Hvitfeldska Gymnasiet ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvitfeldtska_gymnasiet ), a school the city had given for use as a place to sleep for the protesters, that was nowhere near the actual protests, and the police had attacked the school and arrested everyone they could, before they even went to the actual protests. I will never forget that one either.

[JackRiddler]

I did not think I would see the day when so many posters on Rigorous seem to be saying that Russia Today is objective reporting from a justified russian invasion.

Stop. No one said that. I certainly haven't, most here haven't and haven't implied it, and it's not the point.

Do you remember how Putin got to power originally? By having russian apartment buildings be blown up, to then blame Chechenia and to start a war there to gain popularity?

Who are you talking to? Seriously? How many threads here have been about 9/99? It's not the point.

And I am mostly watching what regular people post on Reddit and the like.
I do not watch any mainstream news, and definitely not state Russian news. That would be like getting your news on CNN and Fox.

As it happens, I've watched selections of all of the above, and there's a reason for that. I don't want Western governments telling me what foreign media I'm allowed to access, always based on whatever propaganda campaign is current.

I am also a conscription refuser - we still have mandatory conscription in Finland because of Russia. I refused and did civil service for 13 months instead (aka free social work). I refused because I refuse to swear any kind of loyalty to any state, and refuse to kill on orders. One can still defend what one believes in, if it seems necessary.

Yes. Very good. I'd have done the same. Much respect.

Once again, not the point!

Of course NATO has its own plans.
That does not change the fact that clearly Ukrainians want to decide for themselves, on their own land.

Ukrainians, meaning residents and citizens of the country, are a mix of people. Some of them wanted to decide otherwise, and they got a coup of their elected government (one at least as legitimate by the liberal-democratic rules as any U.S. government). Some of the other-deciders were shelled for it, for years. By actual Nazi battalions.

However, also not the point.

People here talking about, and opposing, state censorship of media not approved by their state, is not the same as approving of the material in the censored media.

This is so elementary and easy to understand that I don't understand what you think you are arguing here.

Seeing and talking about the many US/NATO (coalition) aggressions - worldwide and CURRENT, happening at the same time and related directly and indirectly to the Ukraine attack - is not a defense of anything done by the designated other side.

It really makes me mad that after what Putin has done, NATO is more popular than ever in Finland now. Only about 25% of people have supported joining NATO until now. Now, with Putins urging, it has gone way above 50% and there are two petitions to government to join, with both over the necessary 50 000 signees.

This is the point. All views and sources not explicitly cheerleading for the Ukr government and NATO in ritualistic fashion, and any sources not suppressing inconvenient information, are being banned right in front of you. Your response is to say, well some of them are wrong/stupid/objectionable etc. anyway. Okay.

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[Gnomad]

Yeah, you are right.

(Reading the thread again and not just skimming, I can't justify what I said earlier. Sorry.)