What constitutes Misogyny?

[Maddy]

I knew we'd be seeing him.

Just sayin'.

[barracuda]

How 'bout this: if in the next hour one woman thinks you need to rethink your position, you'll agree to leave the thread.

I think I can work with that. Ladies?

I don't feel this is a fair preposition for a mod to be making.

I was kind of a joke, dude - just my way of letting brekin know that I don't accept the terms of his proposition, at all (unless it happens to work out in my favor). I haven't and don't expect to change my position on the quality of his participation here barring some sea-change on his part.

[Project Willow]

If there is a genuine call for some sort of statement to be made here, within a time frame, then I'll make it. Yes, brekin, I have to say again, I experience your contributions to this thread as examples of all manner of wrong. I view our relative positions at this point as intractably irreconcilable. I think further exchanges will be deleterious to the discussion here, not to mention the general advancement of women, kind of like how the royal wedding is a distraction from the Canadian election.

[WakeUpAndLive]

How 'bout this: if in the next hour one woman thinks you need to rethink your position, you'll agree to leave the thread.

I think I can work with that. Ladies?

I don't feel this is a fair preposition for a mod to be making.

I was kind of a joke, dude - just my way of letting brekin know that I don't accept the terms of his proposition, at all (unless it happens to work out in my favor). I haven't and don't expect to change my position on the quality of his participation here barring some sea-change on his part.

The joys of text based forums leaving out simple nuances like tone.....Anyways this is just my way of letting you know I don't appreciate the terms of your proposition, at all.

I knew we'd be seeing him.

Just sayin'.

Maddy, if my posts were more provocative and less serious, I would maybe have to agree with your trolling comment. I have said some things which I might go back and not say now, for that I do apologize (the toilet seat comment is one that sticks out off the top of my head). Misogyny is hatred towards women and it hurts me to think that people think I hate women, and for that I just want to know why that feeling seems to be so common with the women here.

[WakeUpAndLive]

Certain people continue to accuse me of misogynistic behavior without providing any real examples. Disagreeing
with three women on a misogyny thread I don't think qualifies.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

since when does DISAGREEMENT = HATRED? no trolling just a serious question because I am not privy to your view on this. It is possible one of brekins' post contains the following:

"[Misogyny] is a central part of sexist prejudice and ideology and, as such, is an important basis for the oppression of females in male-dominated societies. Misogyny is manifested in many different ways, from jokes to pornography to violence to the self-contempt women may be taught to feel for their own bodies"

I know if I was provided with examples of my behavior in this thread which demonstrated some of these ideas I truly would question my position on this matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny

[Stephen Morgan]

The present approach to opposing sexism does seem to be to spread the worst of each sex to the other.

here it is again: agreement.
BUT.. I argue that this is a result of the fact that we are labouring for change under a patriarchal structure which benefits from bringing out the the worst in all of us.

You say that about everything.

Women spend a rather large majority of all money,

being that the top 1% own most of the money, I doubt this is the case. If what you mean is that women tend to lay claim to the majority of the scraps left over for the rest of us, I think that that is propaganda.

The top 1% own most of the money, have most of the income, don't necessarily spend that much. Anyway, the I'm getting the figure that women control 85% of discretionary spending from she-conomy.com. Take it up with them. Of course that includes household spending, things women might buy which may be used by the rest of a household. Food, bog rolls, Cravendale, &c.. Nonetheless. Also, those top 1%, they aren't all gay. They have wives who, well I don't know what they do. Take tennis lessons while their husband steals aid money from third world nations, maybe. Or the other way around, in some cases. What's Bill Clinton up to these days?

As far as I'm concerned a civil servant is a civil servant and when he becomes a civil servant he becomes a civil servant and takes on the mantle of being a civil servant, with all the standard practices. IF women are becoming, becoming in more senses than one, civil servants, I'd rather we didn't blame men for their unpleasant behaviour, if you don't mind.

I mind, because it's not even 100 years since women were 'given' the vote..

93, here. Same number of years since men like myself were given the vote. Most suicidal move any Liberal government ever made. And the last. Women mostly vote Tory, working-class men mostly vote Labour. The Liberals were somewhat surprised by all that.

so a lot of the structures in place were put there by dudes. Men are still over-represented in all the halls of power on this planet.

Only if you think those in power represent men, which I don't.

[wintler2]

1. Very little actual discussion of how women experience this male-run world has taken place in this thread entitled "What Constitutes Misogyny."

2. Perhaps a dozen posts (on a supposedly progressive board) out of hundreds have expressed any empathy whatsoever for the status of women and what we endure, in this thread entitled "What Constitutes Misogyny."

3. Most of the exchanges have centered around men defensively denying, shaming, demeaning, and otherwise attacking the input of women, in this thread entitled "What Constitutes Misogyny."

It's a wee bit crazy-making.

It would be more crazy making if it was more surprising, its just same-old really, Ben Okri nailed it, 'the oppressor never knows the language of the oppressed'.

Most interesting for me is how hard some men will work to retain their selfimage as victims, i guess it is essential for the "if she stopped nagging i'd stop hitting her" excuse.

[barracuda]

If in the next hour no one agrees with what
I've said so far I'll exile myself from this thread forever. It is 1:27 right now.

It's 2:32.

[WakeUpAndLive]

If in the next hour no one agrees with what
I've said so far I'll exile myself from this thread forever. It is 1:27 right now.

It's 2:32.

I meant to agree with some of his positions in one of my posts that I accidentally hit the X button on and then didn't re-include it on the retype.

[WakeUpAndLive]

It would be more crazy making if it was more surprising, its just same-old really, Ben Okri nailed it, 'the oppressor never knows the language of the oppressed'.

Most interesting for me is how hard some men will work to retain their selfimage as victims, i guess it is essential for the "if she stopped nagging i'd stop hitting her" excuse.

Can you please provide examples of me oppressing the female? I want to grow...I don't want to be considered misogynistic....I want peace.....I want mutual understanding.

[Canadian_watcher]

I've already tried to make these points elsewhere in this thread (as have other people), and so far these explanations have fallen on deaf ears, but I'm trying it again.

The below is a part of the dynamic at play... and being that it is about invalidation it will be difficult for the people engaged in it to see it unless they will themselves to really pay attention:

Types of Emotional Abuse
Emotional abuse can take many forms. Three general patterns of abusive behavior include aggressing, denying, and minimizing.

Aggressing

Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships.

Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised as “helping.” Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, probing, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances, however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental “I know best” tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships.

Denying

Invalidating seeks to distort or undermine the recipient’s perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, “I never said that,” “I don’t know what you’re talking about, “ etc.

Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the “silent treatment.”

Countering occurs when the abuser views the recipient as an extension of themselves and denies any viewpoints or feelings which differ from their own.

Minimizing

Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient’s emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as “You’re too sensitive,” “You’re exaggerating,” or “You’re blowing this out of proportion” all suggest that the recipient’s emotions and perceptions are faulty and not to be trusted.

Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing.

Denying and minimizing can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience.

when we have tried to answer the question: "Why do you think I've been misogynistic?" we've answered: "because you've invalidated our experiences." The result of that has been more invalidation which is evidenced by the fact that the same question: "Why do you think I've been misogynistic" gets asked again and again, thereby invalidating us once more.

The point is that this level of invalidation verges on being abusive. Since the subject of the invalidation is womens' experiences in a thread about misogyny it does seem that this repeated abusive behaviour might be rooted in sexism.

that's as gently and as fully as I can explain it, I think.

[wintler2]

Can you please provide examples of me oppressing the female? I want to grow...I don't want to be considered misogynistic....I want peace.....I want mutual understanding.

What she said ^^.

[WakeUpAndLive]

I've already tried to make these points elsewhere in this thread (as have other people), and so far these explanations have fallen on deaf ears, but I'm trying it again.

when we have tried to answer the question: "Why do you think I've been misogynistic?" we've answered: "because you've invalidated our experiences." The result of that has been more invalidation which is evidenced by the fact that the same question: "Why do you think I've been misogynistic" gets asked again and again, thereby invalidating us once more.

The point is that this level of invalidation verges on being abusive. Since the subject of the invalidation is womens' experiences in a thread about misogyny it does seem that this repeated abusive behaviour might be rooted in sexism.

that's as gently and as fully as I can explain it, I think.

I might have missed it in my skimming of some pages, but thank you for again(?) clearly stating your opinion. My intentions were never to invalidate an experience, I'm sorry if you've gleamed that from my posts and can see why you might have. My intentions are to determine fact about an event through probing questions, apologies that I stepped over the line.

Would a better question be how can I act differently?



*edit*
Seriously.....what can I do? I just want to improve myself....

[Canadian_watcher]

This is a peonie thread? How'd I miss this? I love peonies!

I do, too. Here's my most recent painting (not quite complete)
It's 30" x 40" on canvas:

[Project Willow]

^ Ah, beautiful!

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to strutting my slutty, feminist self in June...

http://slutwalkseattle.com/about

Whatever reason a person is called a “slut,” the word is always meant to hurt them. In addition, the use of the word “slut” to bring people—primarily women—down for their sexuality feeds into a culture that accepts rape. When people are brought down for their sexual choices, it dehumanizes them and allows others to see them as not as worthy of protection from violence. As long as people are judged for how few or how many sex partners they have, how rarely or how often they have sex, or whatever other choices they make for their own sex lives, we cannot eradicate the myth that survivors of sexual assault were “asking for it.”

We’re sick of slut-shaming and victim-blaming being a part of our culture, so we’re doing something about it: we’re going to make our voices heard. This June we will walk in Seattle to stand together, fight the social acceptance of rape in our culture, and re-appropriate the word “slut” as one that cannot be used to harm.

People of all orientations, gender identities, races, ages, abilities, walks of life, and levels of sluttiness are invited to join us. All we ask is that you stand with us for what is right. We’re sick of being shamed for our sex choices and being told that survivors of sexual assault brought it on themselves. If you’re sick of it too, come walk with us!