Huge explosion in Oslo

[barracuda]

Presumably pre-surgery:





The chin is definitely different, rounder, not squared off. Same ears. Same person?

[lupercal]

No that's the same one, the July 27 Guardian translation of survivor Emma Martinovic's blog, where she describes the shooter as having "a police cap on his head"

Sorry, you're quite correct.

Hey you're catching on.

Regarding the weak justification of your jew-spotting, I'll simply comment that it's a shame you couldn't have invented some of that stuff at the time you made your anti-semitic remark upthread.

My remark was not anti-semitic, and I would prefer that you stop making false accusations. As to "that stuff," of course I already said it upthread, as I imagine you know, but here it is again, with a link:

^^ exactly!

when you think of it, only the victims (if there were victims) saw the killer(s) (if there were killers) and they're all dead.

Incorrect, in case in needs to be said. Survivor Emma Martinovic describes a blond shooter in a police uniform in the Guardian passage I quoted above. Yes, it could be Breivik, but it could also be this character, who from what I can make out is a) gigantic and b) not Breivik, or at least not the Breivik we've seen so far:



Also, note that Martinovic describes "a police cap on his head," and this guy appears to be hatless.

Subject: Huge explosion in Oslo

That was last Saturday and here's the link again so you can check twice: Subject: Huge explosion in Oslo

Not that it would have been any less offensive, but perhaps more demonstrative of where some of your theories originate when viewed in the proper context.

You have a habit of misrepresenting what I say, as I've noted before.

You have yet to see just how craven I can be, zogster.

Sometimes even you surprise me.

[barracuda]

here it is again

Thanks for reposting it and confirming my suspicions that your interpretation of the blur couldn't possibly get any less informative through sheer repetition.

[lupercal]

here it is again

Thanks for reposting it and confirming my suspicions that your interpretation of the blur couldn't possibly get any less informative through sheer repition.

Here's what I just posted which is about as informative as it gets. Can you please show me specifically what "suspicion" and what "blur" you're talking about? Thanks.

No that's the same one, the July 27 Guardian translation of survivor Emma Martinovic's blog, where she describes the shooter as having "a police cap on his head"

Sorry, you're quite correct.

Hey you're catching on.

Regarding the weak justification of your jew-spotting, I'll simply comment that it's a shame you couldn't have invented some of that stuff at the time you made your anti-semitic remark upthread.

My remark was not anti-semitic, and I would prefer that you stop making false accusations. As to "that stuff," of course I already said it upthread, as I imagine you know, but here it is again, with a link:

^^ exactly!

when you think of it, only the victims (if there were victims) saw the killer(s) (if there were killers) and they're all dead.

Incorrect, in case in needs to be said. Survivor Emma Martinovic describes a blond shooter in a police uniform in the Guardian passage I quoted above. Yes, it could be Breivik, but it could also be this character, who from what I can make out is a) gigantic and b) not Breivik, or at least not the Breivik we've seen so far:



Also, note that Martinovic describes "a police cap on his head," and this guy appears to be hatless.

Subject: Huge explosion in Oslo

That was last Saturday and here's the link again so you can check twice: Subject: Huge explosion in Oslo

Not that it would have been any less offensive, but perhaps more demonstrative of where some of your theories originate when viewed in the proper context.

You have a habit of misrepresenting what I say, as I've noted before.

You have yet to see just how craven I can be, zogster.

Sometimes even you surprise me.

[barracuda]

Another survivor account:

To get a better understanding of the location's apperance, and my route, please read this spoiler which includes a picture:



The beginning of that red line is where I was standing, the rest is the way to the "school hut", which I marked with a red dot, since the house isn't visible there.
The Teal-ish one is the route we were evacuated along about half an hour after the police had secured the school hut.
The shooting started right on the left of the big hall building you see just below the start of the red line. At the stairs of the white house by the teal-ish line is where I saw Anders stand handcuffed when we were being evacuated.
...

We then all had to gather in the main meeting hall, where we received information about the bomb and what the camp would do. The day's schedule had been cancelled(wouldn't have mattered if they didn't).
What you should know is that at this point, ABB was already on the island. He could have taken us all right there! He intentionally didn't! He probably wanted a "hunt"; we don't know.

Around twenty or so minutes after the meeting, we heard the first shots.
Previously, I had predicted that someone was going to try to scare people by using firecrackers or something similar.
A horde of youth started running from the "waffle tent" area, and one grown man was basically sprinting through the woodwork of the forest, trying to get away.
Some of us in the camp yelled for people to calm down, seeing what looked like it was about to turn into a deadly stampede.
Then the shots continued, and we in the camp started to move at jogging speed towards the "school hut" just in case.
The cracks continued with increased intensity, many people were screaming hysterically, several were disoriented.
Many were shouting things angrily, and as we picked up a running pace with our heads lowered, I yelled "If this still is a joke, we're going to hang the perpetrator in a tree after his dick", I was cut off by the instantly recognizable noise of shotgun fire.
That was the point at which my rational side became certain that something really bad was going down.
When running through the path in the woods, my friend suddenly stopped and asked where his sister was. Had I not seen her actually having been running ahead of us, and then replied "I don't know", then I am dead sure he'd run right back to the camp to find her.

Two people of the medical staff were telling everyone approaching to quickly enter the house. As I closed in on it, I already felt that it was a rat cage. The second alternative in my head was to run into the sea right behind the house.
The main living room was already crammed with some 30 people. Many were crying, several were shouting around to find out what was going on, or trying to find out if certain people had also entered the building.
The room was really cramped by people sitting/standing around all the overturned furniture, etc, so I quickly skipped into one of the closest side rooms, sat down on a bed and put my head in my hands.
I started to try to gain full control of my breathing, and I tried to hold back my body's shaking as much as possible.
Some people started barricading the windows and others started moving into the other side rooms.

I then heard a girl come in the main living room, probably no older than 15-16 years old, screaming in tears "He is shooting at us, he's going to kill us!"
At first I thought it was just someone having snapped and had a nervous breakdown, but then I noticed she had just entered the building. Then she was led into the room I was sitting alone in by the two medical staff workers. I saw she was holding out her right arm. It was bleeding. The medics patiently got her to calm herself and not to panic and asked her about the injuries.
I then noticed the wounds. Two small round wounds, not usually eyecatching, but I recognized those wounds: Shotgun pellets. He had fired from a distance, and the long range caused only a minor amount of the pellets to reach, two of which got stuck in her arm.
Everything in me, even the optimistic side, was utterly convinced about the nature of the incident from then on. Our lives were in danger.
People completed the barricades and locked the door, we heard some of the shooting come closer and everyone poured into the side-rooms.
In my room was only the two medics(who were the only "adults" in the building), the wounded girl and me.
We then shut the curtains(in the other rooms, they barricaded the windows, but we didn't have the manpower to do it, and decided we didn't have the time), and hid under the bed.
The male medic was too big to fit under the beds, so he let the wounded girl get the space.
Under another bunk, I was laying with the female medic, me being the one closest to the wall.
There isn't much to say about that part. We were laying there silently, not making a noise for 1 and a half hour, listening to the shooting. It is strangely similar to counting the second between lightning strikes and the thunder when you have Astraphobia.
At some point, we heard screams not too far from the building.
One of these screams still scar my mind. I am certain that it was the death scream of someone who then was finished off. I won't go into detail about that.
I was wishing for him to off himself like a lot of maniacal shooters have a tendency to do.

But then at one point, he tried to break into the building.
It was the most terrifying part of it all, and for a moment, I considered my life forfeit.
The feeling of helplessness was crushing.
We first heard him outside, then he tried to open the door, but it was locked. Then he fired two or three shots with the shotgun into the house through the glass in the door.
Some girls in another room screamed in terror.
My mind rushed. Fight or flight. How would I do that? I was blocked by the medic. Even then, how could I resist him if I wasn't? Ambush him at the door? Next to impossible.
Flee? I would probably dead before I got out of the window, and even then I would have to rely on luck not to get shot outside.
Suddenly everything was silent. Adrenaline rushed, seconds turned into minutes. He had left. I was certain at the time that he was simply walking around the house, looking for some fool to look out the window.
We then heard gunshots in the distance. He really had left. Why? WHY?! We didn't get it! He could easily have fired at the lock with the shotgun and then break in.
We don't know why he suddenly left. I have theorized that since the room was dark due to barricaded windows and shut off lights, and then the sight of the sheer amount of side-rooms, made him decide not to break in. He probably thought it risky, as he didn't know the amount of us, and there was a chance that he would end up swarmed by terrified and adrenaline rushed people. And when considering that possibility yes, it was logical for him to at least wait with trying to take us. If he had gotten in a brawl with several people, he would have been overpowered, and maybe even killed in many different ways.
It would jeopardize his mission much sooner than he would have risked.
But it is only a possibility.
The rest was more waiting, and some text messages being exchanged between family and survivors.
Eventually the police decided to break in, and the SWAT team swarmed the building, telling everyone to get on the ground(no problem, as most already were) and show their hands.
When I heard them at the front entrance I had started to crawl out from the bed and started texting my mother, but then realized I shouldn't be doing it right now, so I quickly dropped the phone laid down on my back and made my hands visible right before a fully armed Police man entered the room, with an M-4 with laser sight and a flash light attached. After evaluating the people in the room, he quickly and loudly asked for any wounded, I and one of the medics quickly pointed to the girl. He went over to her and asked for where the injury was, and then grabbed her hand to evaluate the injury.
He yelled the location of a wounded and then left the room.
Eventually the lights were turned on and the police men were done with the search. I sat down in the bed, stretched out my sore muscles and let the feeling of security replace the fear regarding damage to myself and those in the house.
The girl finally managed to have a proper conversation on the phone with her mother.
Her calmness was admirable, as she had to ask her mother to breathe.
She explained that her injuries weren't critical, that she was going to the hospital and that she was now safe.
I asked her name and thanked her for her admirable control, which really helped me stay in my skin.
The male medic was then standing by her, with an obvious sense of relief on his face and tears in his face. I then said said something along the lines of "We survived this". He then looked at me and asked "you wouldn't mind if I give you hug, right?"
I didn't, and gave him a powerful hug. At that point my mind was somewhat hazed, but I remember thanking the medics for their hard work.

I remembered that I hadn't seen my friends again yet, so I went into the main living room where everyone had gathered by now.
I then called out to them. They turned around, yelled my name and at least one of them gave me a nearly bone breaking hug. Due to the circumstances, they didn't know that I had entered the building, and thus had been worrying about me.
Probably something along the lines of 6 different people borrowed my phone, as many didn't have their phones on them when the shooting started. I was also so lucky in the unluck that I had my bankcard on me too, which was really neat for later.
I then called my mother and brother. My mother told me that 7 people had been confirmed killed.
That hit me like a punch to the crotch. I had heard that no one was confirmed dead, but many wounded. Of course I held that to be unrealistic, but I never thought about it.
I then also realized that at least four other friends weren't in the building. I became nervous and had to start to calm down. Then I thought of some friends that decided not to come to camp that year, but who was there last year.
I was so happy that they didn't come, within a few seconds my otherwise calm apperance broke down. It had been half an hour since the police stormed the building. I cried. I cried of a nature I had never cried in my life.
It was a mixture of panic, despair, feeling of dread(that I had kept at bay), happiness, helplessness.
I had already known I was probably going to break down later, since I was so calm during the shooting.
The wounded girl was then escorted out of the house first, as she had higher priority.
We were then ordered to stand in two lines, keep our hands out of our pockets and not do anything sudden. Then we had to run/jog to the ferry place like that.
At the information building, we then saw Anders, but most of us didn't know he was the killer at the time. Had we known, several of us would have assaulted him, police beating or not.

When on the ferry, we were all counted and shipped over. On the other side we saw five corpses covered by white blankets right next to where we went in land.
Some people started screaming hysterically. I was utterly pissed at the people who placed the bodies there right in our sight. I'm not angry at them further than that. We were taken care of well, checked for injuries, counted and registered and then taken to the hotel that was then turned into a crisis center.
I then found all my missing friends alive and well(some cooled down a bit and some stubbed toes and scratches, they all had stories to tell).

[barracuda]

Can you please show me specifically what "suspicion" and what "blur" you're talking about?

The idea that you can manifest your suppositions by placing your preconceptions in proximity to that image in the shape it is in is frankly absurd and valueless, imho. Your random jew comment told me more about your entire theory than anything else you put forth.

[lupercal]

Can you please show me specifically what "suspicion" and what "blur" you're talking about?

The idea that you can manifest your suppositions by placing your preconceptions in proximity to that image in the shape it is in is frankly absurd and valueless, imho.

Thanks to the Norwegian security apparatus, that image, in the shape it's in, is about all we're ever going to get, so we'll just have to make the best of it.

Anyway it turns out Mr. Norwegian potato farmer was a huge fan of late 19th-century English writer-reformer John Henry Cardinal Newman. Who knew he had so much in common with James Joyce? From page 29 of his manifesto:

In his seminal book The Idea of a University, Cardinal John Henry Newman defined the
“liberal arts” as a pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. By way of contrast, he defined
the “servile arts” as those modes of study that serve only specific, immediate ends. The
liberal arts are liberating, Newman argued, because they enable men to discover the
underlying principles that guide us toward wisdom and virtue.

Were he alive today, Newman would view political correctness as “servile” because its
purpose is to advance a political agenda to a position of national power. Militant
professors in increasing numbers are shamelessly turning their podiums into pulpits,
abandoning the search for objective truth and setting about the task of indoctrinating
their students.

http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-conte ... ndence.pdf

And so nicely written too. I gather shameless "militant professors" were a real problem at Breivik's Norwegian high school.

.......................

Before anybody gets busy intentionally misreading this post too, let me spell it out: a) the guy in the red polo shirt, whoever he is, did NOT, repeat not, write a word of this, I can guarantee it, and in all likelihood he doesn't even know what it is; and b) the only "random jew comment," which I see barracuda somehow edited into his post after I quoted it, is the one in his overactive imagination. I have made no such comment.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

But then why would fuckhead himself, Photoshop his noggin onto various costumes, altering the facial features in the process? Leaving other elements, like the gloved hands, intact? Who can say?

I think this is what you meant right Harvey? I have very limited photoshopexperience, but to me it's glaringly obvious that both these pictures tacked onto the manifesto are the same body, with different costumes and heads pasted on. Look at the exact same posture, look at the exact same hands.

Another thing to me that deserves a lot more attention is the fact that the guy supposedly was a paying member of a freemason lodge up to the point of his arrest. So what we are asked to believe is not only does he plan and document his plans on his own for nine years, then goes ahead and does a logistically perfect operation, all on his own, but during all this time he was a member of the freemasons. Why?! What could have possibly attracted an evil hatefilled lonewolf extremist to freemasonry?

Hugh, good point about the plastic surgery in all probability being disinfo to distract from these obvious photoshop shenanigans.

[Peachtree Pam]

From Politiken, 1 August 2011:

http://politiken.dk/udland/article1350779.ece

Brevik has said during the interrogation on Friday that he rang and spoke to police during the massacre. His lawyer confirmed that Breivik has said this but he does not know what he said to the police when he called them from the island.

The French news bureau AFP has reported that witnesses and survivors have said they saw him talking into a phone or a walkie-talkie.

[Dradin Kastell]

From Politiken, 1 August 2011:

http://politiken.dk/udland/article1350779.ece

Brevik has said during the interrogation on Friday that he rang and spoke to police during the massacre. His lawyer confirmed that Breivik has said this but he does not know what he said to the police when he called them from the island.

The French news bureau AFP has reported that witnesses and survivors have said they saw him talking into a phone or a walkie-talkie.

Aftenposten claims that in this call Breivik identified himself as a Brigadier and said that "the mission has been completed".

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4189387.ece

[psynapz]

I think this is what you meant right Harvey? I have very limited photoshopexperience, but to me it's glaringly obvious that both these pictures tacked onto the manifesto are the same body, with different costumes and heads pasted on. Look at the exact same posture, look at the exact same hands.

I dunno, it could have been a conveyor-belt process of individually portraiting a group of them in one go. Quarter turn to the left please. Face the camera. *snap* Thank you. Gents who also need to be photographed in their Templar outfits please go change and return to the back of the line please. Next...

Avoiding "feminine kisses" the way that he did, he had plenty of free time to sit around dropping backgrounds out of photos and touching them up just right for future historical purposes. He's proud of what he has set out to do and wants to be remembered just a certain way, and that way is without backgrounds and with continuity of portraiture style.

Another thing to me that deserves a lot more attention is the fact that the guy supposedly was a paying member of a freemason lodge up to the point of his arrest. So what we are asked to believe is not only does he plan and document his plans on his own for nine years, then goes ahead and does a logistically perfect operation, all on his own, but during all this time he was a member of the freemasons. Why?! What could have possibly attracted an evil hatefilled lonewolf extremist to freemasonry?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29:

The Knights Templar is an international philanthropic chivalric order affiliated with Freemasonry. Unlike the initial degrees conferred in a Masonic Lodge, which only require a belief in a Supreme Being regardless of religious affiliation, the Knights Templar is one of several additional Masonic Orders in which membership is open only to Freemasons who profess a belief in the Christian religion. The full title of this Order is The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta. The word "United" in this title indicates that more than one historical tradition and more than one actual Order are jointly controlled within this system. The individual Orders 'united' within this system are principally the Knights of the Temple (Knights Templar), the Knights of Malta, the Knights of St Paul, and only within the York Rite, the Knights of the Red Cross. The Order derives its name from the historical Knights Templar. One theory of the origins of Freemasonry claims direct descent from the historical Knights Templar through its final fourteenth-century members who took refuge in Scotland, or other countries where the Templar suppression was not enforced. Although the theory may not be dismissed, it is usually deprecated on grounds of lack of evidence by both masonic authorities[1] and historians.

So to me this was, "son, you have been chosen specially to become a Super Double Secret New-Wave Templar Justicar Knight of the Fuckhead Order! One thing though, you gotta go join a lodge first. Technicality. Make sure you pay your dues every month. Welcome to the Conspiracy!"

[barracuda]

I have very limited photoshopexperience, but to me it's glaringly obvious that both these pictures tacked onto the manifesto are the same body, with different costumes and heads pasted on.

It's quite possible that the glaring obviousness you see is a direct result of your limited experience. Look closely at where the subject's neck meets the collars in the pictures. It looks perfectly natural.

These pictures might have been touched up - in fact I'm certain the scuba photo was - but I have no doubt that what you see here, a person wearing two different uniforms, is precisely what was presented to the camera, with the background subsequently cut away.

[stickdog99]

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-wo ... 1i8mo.html

Norway gunman claims he called police
August 2, 2011 - 4:34AM
AFP

Anders Behring Breivik, who has confessed to the twin attacks in Norway on July 22, claims he called police during the massacre of 69 people on the island of Utoeya, his lawyer has told Norwegian public broadcaster NRK.

"He has explained (during a police interrogation Friday) that he called police from Utoeya, but I don't know if that is the case," said Geir Lippestad, who is defending the 32-year-old rightwing extremist.

A call to police could explain some witness accounts from survivors of the bloodbath, saying they heard Behring Breivik speaking on the phone or a walkie-talkie.

Most of the 69 people killed on the island were teenagers attending a youth summer camp hosted by the ruling Labour Party, while another eight people were killed earlier after Behring Breivik set off a car bomb outside government offices in the capital.

Oslo police could not be immediately reached for comment on Behring Breivik's claim he called them.

They meanwhile said earlier on Monday they had gathered all the mobile phones, computers and cameras found on Utoeya as evidence, and were analysing them to trace the killer's movements on the island.

[crikkett]

I have very limited photoshopexperience, but to me it's glaringly obvious that both these pictures tacked onto the manifesto are the same body, with different costumes and heads pasted on.

It's quite possible that the glaring obviousness you see is a direct result of your limited experience. Look closely at where the subject's neck meets the collars in the pictures. It looks perfectly natural.

These pictures might have been touched up - in fact I'm certain the scuba photo was - but I have no doubt that what you see here, a person wearing two different uniforms, is precisely what was presented to the camera, with the background subsequently cut away.

The patch on the scuba photo was obviously an illustration. Or at least I thought so.

[crikkett]

But then why would fuckhead himself, Photoshop his noggin onto various costumes, altering the facial features in the process? Leaving other elements, like the gloved hands, intact? Who can say?

Megalomania is my guess.
If only he had clone dolls to play with maybe he would've kept it all in his head.