Ted Kennedy has passed

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby justdrew » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:48 pm

I agree with marshwren, and thank him for doing the good work on the newspaper message boards, that's an area that needs more attention.

the spectrum isn't from some communism to fascism. It's from rational best practices and an informed electorate to authoritarian private feudalism. Let's make a spectrum out of the alphabet, take A as the left and former description and Z as the right, later description. Now we're sitting not in the middle at M but probably all the way on maybe S. Maybe once upon a time we were around P. If you want to move the country to A, you can't just advocate for A and slag off anyone working to get the country to M, you have to walk the road and lead people along the way. Once we're back at M then you keep going and work to move things toward L
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Postby chlamor » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:22 pm

justdrew wrote:I agree with marshwren, and thank him for doing the good work on the newspaper message boards, that's an area that needs more attention.

the spectrum isn't from some communism to fascism. It's from rational best practices and an informed electorate to authoritarian private feudalism. Let's make a spectrum out of the alphabet, take A as the left and former description and Z as the right, later description. Now we're sitting not in the middle at M but probably all the way on maybe S. Maybe once upon a time we were around P. If you want to move the country to A, you can't just advocate for A and slag off anyone working to get the country to M, you have to walk the road and lead people along the way. Once we're back at M then you keep going and work to move things toward L


Defining people as "the electorate" is part of the problem. Informed or no that connotes passivity.

"Rational best practices" is not only murky but is really little other than the screwy notion of "pragmatism", at least in it's present form ,and that of course is always defined by the status quo, in this case the liberal version of the ruling class. It is not only futile in theory but has a track record of uselessness that is quite the lengthy scroll. For all the "pragmatic" and "reform-oriented" efforts there has been not only zero payback but these screwy ideas serve to keep the powers that be entrenched as the "electorate" flounders around with another of it's many feckless reforms.

There are no historical examples of your alphabet analogy that has lead to anything but further consolidation of power by the ruling class. By the time you moved from Z to Y you've been pushed back to Zed squared before you even had a moment to enjoy Y.

But there are a lot of feel-good liberals who revel in the "heady days of Y" and wonder why it is it didn't last and why it is conditions continue to worsen. Then they head off to try the same thing that got them to Y (candlelight vigils e.g.) forgetting that the same effort was worse than a failure on it's own terms instead continuing with the mistaken idea that it moved them "just a little bit" in the positive direction. It's insane all of it. It ain't working.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby chlamor » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:44 pm

FWIW has anybody noticed that the endless bathos of The Death of American Royalty is dripping from all sides of the Amerikan political aisle?

Just one big fucking family. Ain't it great?

Funny how those of us on the left who find the whole spectacle disgusting are conflated with The Right when we actually see the likes of Nancy Reagan, Bill Frist and so many others trotted out to wax hollow AmerikanSpeak ad nauseam.

Everyone got respect for everybody and at the end of the day we can all just agree to disagree, head off to the local watering hole and have a drink even if others are drowning in our Amerikan gravy spills.

No it seems the khaki-clad liberals are marching to the same drum of American Exceptionalism as their "arch-enemy neo-con brethren" when it comes to this grotesque tribute to one of "America's finest sons." The whole thing is nauseating as one pundit after another drags another liberal or conservative political celebrity out of the board room, usually done in checkerboard fashion to show how we "can all come together as Amerikans", to pay tribute to another Amerikan political figurehead who has died "fighting the good fight." He will be remembered blah, blah, blah...

Now what about the children of Iraq, yes all of them that have perished and tormented during this bi-partisan slaughter? I've not ever heard Teddy say much on the behalf of them. Did I miss it? What about the Palestinian people? Anyone have any quotes from Teddy talking about the brutal war crimes committed by Israel? And what about the slaughterhouse of Amerikan foreign policy? Teddy voted for the war fundnig every time and I don't recall him saying anything or doing anything during the brutal Clinton years as relates to the sanctions that destroyed that country and killed over a million. I not only paid close attention but lived in Massachusetts through much of it and the silence from Teddy was deafening.

Nah this guy ain't no hero by any stretch unless you believe in apple pie, America and God in The Homeland.

What a bunch of well-trained poodles we got here. The Amerikan catechism is being rolled out all day every day during this "sad death" and the liberal denizens of The Homeland are lapping it up as they applaud the legacy of another ruling class politician.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby OP ED » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:01 pm

i dunno chlammy, hearing your polemic actually makes me wish i'd been nicer to him upthread.

don't you have anything better to do?
User avatar
OP ED
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Detroit
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby compared2what? » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:25 pm

marshwren wrote:
compared2what? wrote:
Word. Incidentally, you're missing the closing " in your OMH [quote="et cetera.

But: There are a couple of key differences between the hard left (so-called) and the hard right that are worth noting, imahlo.*

(1) The latter is a genuine part of a large and organized political force, that comes complete with people who understand that the key function of a popular political movement is to be, um, popular. That's why you don't usually see their apparatchiks bombarding a discussion board at which a fair number of people with a natural sympathy for their cause habitually talk political shop with antagonisistic, alienating and self-regarding spam. The former is not.

(2) As a general proposition, the first aim of anyone engaged in any political contest should be to win it. And also to win it fairly, imahlo.* So here's where the wheat gets separated from the chaff, prior to being tied into neat little bundles with axes on one side and blowing aimlessly around overworking its own nerves and those of the general populace on the other:

While the hard right doesn't give a flying fuck about whether it wins by fair means or foul, one of the main ways that you can tell that it is, in point of fact, engaged in a genuinely political fight is that it is always genuinely fighting to win, and picks its battles accordingly.

Whereas while the soi-disant hard left puts a lot of strenuous effort into making fairness a prominent part of its platform -- both rhetorically and to some extent actually -- which can and should be one of its most potent and naturally politically advantageous hallmarks, it gains absolutely fucking nothing of any realpolitik value thereby. Which is the totally predictable outcome of all its endeavors. And while that's obviously a circumstance that would be regarded as the A-#1 subject in dire need of urgent attention if the hard left were in fact enough of a genuinely political movement to grasp that the first aim of a political fight is to win it, it** isn't.*** Because it**** isn't.*****. Because it**** doesn't.******


I quite disagree: the only material difference between L & R is the latter is politically/electorally organized, while the former isn't. Indeed, the further 'left' one goes, the more it is taken as a mark of intellectual sophistication to disparage and trivialize electoral action. Which is why they have so little influence in public life. Fact is, for all of the hard Left's crocodile tears about the working class and the poor, they refuse to do what the Right has done: organize the masses into a political bloc that can influence public discussion and determine elections. In this, they are even more cynical than the Right, which regards "the great unwashed" as being sufficiently stupid and reactionary to be propagandized into voting against their own interests. The Left, OTOH, regards "the great unwashed" as being too stupid and reactionary to trust with the vote at all.

Also, from arguing with the RW'ers at my local paper's on-line reader forum, i've discovered that most RW loudmouths are really paper tigers, once they've been (persistantly) rebutted and refuted with facts. Took me (w/the help of a friend or two) a month or so., but the RW'ers no longer mention birth certificates, death panels, or call Obomb'em a socialist any more. Now that the RW noise machine has been muted, sensible people who avoided such public issues are making their voices heard--and while there's no shortage of misperception and misinformation, they actually appreciate having things explained to them in a calm, objective and respectful manner.

One point: the biggest difference between the L & R is the former actually cares about the competence of those who would represent them in elections; the latter is satisfied with any moron or idiot who passes ideological muster, regardless of their actual abilities or talents--which makes it easier for them to find candidates.


Oh. Yes. I completely agree. By "hard left" I meant "chlamor."
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby marshwren » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:31 pm

chlamor wrote:Defining people as "the electorate" is part of the problem. Informed or no that connotes passivity.

"Rational best practices" is not only murky but is really little other than the screwy notion of "pragmatism", at least in it's present form ,and that of course is always defined by the status quo, in this case the liberal version of the ruling class. It is not only futile in theory but has a track record of uselessness that is quite the lengthy scroll. For all the "pragmatic" and "reform-oriented" efforts there has been not only zero payback but these screwy ideas serve to keep the powers that be entrenched as the "electorate" flounders around with another of it's many feckless reforms.

There are no historical examples of your alphabet analogy that has lead to anything but further consolidation of power by the ruling class. By the time you moved from Z to Y you've been pushed back to Zed squared before you even had a moment to enjoy Y.

But there are a lot of feel-good liberals who revel in the "heady days of Y" and wonder why it is it didn't last and why it is conditions continue to worsen. Then they head off to try the same thing that got them to Y (candlelight vigils e.g.) forgetting that the same effort was worse than a failure on it's own terms instead continuing with the mistaken idea that it moved them "just a little bit" in the positive direction. It's insane all of it. It ain't working.


Well, clams, i've tried explaining this to you before at PI; but obviously the lesson didn't sink in before i got banned (and you said nothing, curiously enough for all your self-proclaimed fidelity to free speech--but, unlike you, i don't hold a grudge, however guilty the pleasure of occasionally bitch-slapping the odd stalking-troll).

I've always found it curious that benighted RW'ers understand human beings much better than "scientificly revolutionary" LW'ers. The problem for them is, one can sustain a movement predicated on fear, loathing, hatred and demogogery for only so long--these are extremely exacting emotions and people just get tired; and sooner rather than later as the problems they were emotionally manipulated to counter either don't change or get worse, or are replaced by bigger problems demanding other solutions (all of which has happened to the Conservative Movement since '06; and would be the road-kill of history were it not for the artificle life-support offered by the M$M).

You see, i understand your implacable hatred of liberals and their reforms--not only do they forestall or preclude your precious "revolution", they actually work (and there is a cause-and-effect relationship here). This is why you and your National People's Gang sneer so viciously at those of us who are doing something besides waiting for a peasant's revolt for us to lead (into the Promised Dictatorship); we're working for the kinds of effective, reforming changes that--if successful--put the kibosh on your storming la Bastille/Bolshevik putsch/Marching-into-Havana fantasies. Bummer, i'm sure; but then, i've always been too practical to fall for revolutionary romanticism like that. That's why you want us to fail, and think that constantly denigrating us and our causes is one way to dispirit, or at least distract, us (sorry to be the one who has to break this to you: we find your churlish whining quite amusing; comic relief, really).

It's also why none of your NPG has ever condescended to answer the oft-put question: so, what are we do to (besides read "Bees" and Pacheyav's "Catechism"; and send out periodic foraging expeditions to DU and RI for new acolytes). When you gain the respect for others necessary to be honest and transparent enough to answer this question, we might then be able to have a more intelligent and useful conservation. Until then, i trust you enjoy "more of the same", which you must, considering how often you come back for more of it...how's that workin' for ya?

PS: Defining the people as the electorate does not connote passivity; it actually connotes activity--it's the politically uninvolved and apathetic who are passive. Like, duh?
marshwren
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: outland
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby sergeant stiletto » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:14 pm

It's honestly shocking how some of the members expressing their views here can be so callous. There's a time and a place for everything.

I deeply feel that W was an idiotic fundy puppet with a messianic delusions but I can still empathize with him as a human being with frailties, a family and a lot to prove to his Dad. On that note, I think his Dad very likely did many evil things in the name of our country but it will still be a poignant human moment for his family when he passes.

Anyway...I wouldn't want to be judged on my best or my worst day, but on the all the days in between, when I am just human.

At the very least, Teddy endeavored to help people from all walks of life and thought of the greater good beyond himself. He was flawed and yet he persevered. I think, if anything, his is a story of redemption.

As a nation, I think we are at least temporarily diminished without him.

I love the passion and truth of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SicFn8rqPPE
User avatar
sergeant stiletto
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: ATL
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby DawnB » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:24 pm

And STILL I get no direct answer to my questions of Clams.

DawnB wrote:Answer me this - and we'll see if you answer the question directly - how many families have you fed for the month? How many families have you helped secure shelter for? How many charities have you written checks to? How many pieces of legislation have you helped pass?
DawnB
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby chlamor » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:08 pm

DawnB wrote:And STILL I get no direct answer to my questions of Clams.

DawnB wrote:Answer me this - and we'll see if you answer the question directly - how many families have you fed for the month? How many families have you helped secure shelter for? How many charities have you written checks to? How many pieces of legislation have you helped pass?


You're talking about charity. Perhaps you can apply for a position at USAID and work in the international development program as a garbologist.

As for how many families have received food from my works as I transport food (funny you should ask this) directly from farmers surplus to various food banks in the Upstater NY area I can't answer the question exactly but let's just say it is quite a few every week and still it don't mean jack.

You are welcome to come visit and check it out.

Charity is nothing more than throwing crumbs.

Pieces of legislation from the Empire?

Answer your own questions and let's compare and contrast. You are a fool and a tool.
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby DawnB » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:29 pm

Clams! At last an answer! That's admirable; of course, and please keep up the good work. I engage in the same type of volunteering, but that's not the point.

I've literally secured food and shelter for thousands over the years first as a social worker, and then as a volunteer. So, I don't have anything to be ashamed of; and, I have worked consistently in places most fear to tread - had MANY guns pointed at me at the same time - and at different times (e.g. when it took some in a particularly bad area a while to understand that I was getting a mother and her seven kids out of there, and getting them to Grandma and Auntie across the country, who had resources, and not harming the community in question) - and, still, that's not the point.

The point is that a few friends have met with Kennedy at various times. He used to take out a checkbook and write a check then and there to a worthy cause. Thom Hartmann was just talking about how he significantly helped Thom's home for kids with behavioral challenges by writing a check after Thom had talked to him but for a short time. Many of us have helped hundreds or thousands; Ted Kennedy helped hundreds of thousands, not only through his donations, but through his fighting for legislation, and getting it through, that has helped SO many (so, you see, I wasn't talking about my good works above; I was talking about Ted Kennedy's).

I sincerely hope you don't believe that what you spout is good argument. If you do, in order to spare your feelings, please don't attend law school classes, because what you think is good argument isn't. It's just opinion and insults, not backed up FACTS; it's ridiculous when you put down good works and good efforts that certainly matter, and have mattered, to many families.

Once again, this isn't about you. This isn't about me. This is about a man who made the world a better place in a huge way, time and time again.

Show some humility, Dear; the arrogance is unbecoming.
Last edited by DawnB on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DawnB
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby chlamor » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:51 am

Kennedy's Sins Against Labor
Mutterings From the Wake in Massachusetts

August 29, 2009 By Steve Early


I was raised, like most Irish-Catholics, not to speak ill of the dead—at least while the wake is still underway. Of course, the affliction known as "Irish Alzheimers" exerts a powerful tug in the opposite direction. Forgetting everything except the grudges keeps you focused on those parts of a departed politician's legacy that won't be highlighted from the pulpit or, in Ted Kennedy's case, in fulsome obituaries run as front-page news stories, op-ed pieces, editorials, and internet encomia throughout the nation.

Here's my own view of the senator. I was not a fan of Ted when he was alive and expressed this dissenting opinion, on several occasions, in our local rag, The Boston Globe, after Kennedy's reccurring lapses as a friend of the working class became too painful to ignore. Ted Kennedy was not on labor's side when key public policy shifts were engineered that disastrously weakened and marginalized American unions. After helping to deliver these legislative hammer blows, Ted was quick to offer his hand to a labor movement now lying flat on its back. But forms of assistance like boosting the minimum wage, helping immigrants, securing local defense plant jobs, or co-sponsoring the Employee Free Choice Act have hardly compensated for the ravages of "neoliberalism" that Kennedy aided and abetted. In the case of EFCA, any fundamental repair of federal labor law becomes more unlikely every day, even if our vacant Senate seat gets filled sooner, rather than later.

Of course, all who speak officially for "labor" would strongly disagree with this assessment. They are busy heaping praise on our fallen champion, as labor's best friend ever. Compared to centrist Democrats who are quick to abandon workers at the drop of a campaign donation, Ted did appear to be the true "liberal lion" and patron of union causes everywhere. But here's what I remember about the same Ted Kennedy, who sided with corporate America in its late 1970s drive for deregulation, who was MIA during the biggest anti-concession battle of the 1980s, who pushed trade liberalization in the 1990s, and who settled short on health care reform for the last several decades. (By the usual count at Fenway, it's three strikes and you're out. Being a Kennedy, Ted always got an extra pitch—so, in the box score below, the strikes against him number four.)



An Architect of Deregulation



In several key industries—trucking, the airlines, and telecom--nothing has undermined union membership and bargaining power more than de-regulation. Kennedy embraced de-regulation with gusto and, despite his other differences with Jimmy Carter thirty years ago, helped ram through industry restructuring harmful to hundreds of thousands of workers and their union contracts. By 1985, as Kim Moody describes in U.S. Labor in Trouble and Transition, the number of workers covered by the Teamsters' biggest trucking contract had been halved. Today, fewer than 100,000 work under the National Master Freight Agreement (NMFA)—down from 450,000 before Carter and Kennedy transformed the role of the Interstate Commerce Commission and codified that regulatory change via the Motor Carrier Act of 1980. The business-backed policy agenda "that would become known as ‘Reaganomics' or more generally as neoliberalism," had its roots in the Carter Administration, Moody points out. Two of its key objectives were deregulation and free trade; the first having been accomplished under Carter, the second was pursued with equal fervor and Kennedy vigor after Clinton became president.

A No-Show At NYNEX

Twenty years ago this month, 60,000 telephone workers in New York and New England began a bruising tussle with our regional phone company, then known as NYNEX. Two workers died, directly or indirectly, as a result of this strike. Hundreds were arrested, fired, or suspended (company discipline that was, in some cases, later modified or reversed). Rallies of up to 15,000 people filled the streets of Boston, as IBEW and CWA members demanded "Health Care For All, Not Health Cuts At NYNEX," and explicitly tied their fight against give-backs to political agitation for national health insurance. To break the strike, management cut off medical coverage for all strikers and their families.



Everyone involved in this struggle assumed, initially, that Ted Kennedy's long-standing advocacy of health care reform would make him a logical ally. Yet, despite repeated union overtures and invitations, Kennedy failed to make a single picket-line appearance or speak out on the strikers' behalf in any way. Kennedy's no-show role became so obvious mid-way through the walk-out that union members booed the very mention of his name at one mass rally in Boston. Finally, after four months, the strikers prevailed. To this day in the northeast, at the company now known as Verizon, workers make no premium contributions for health care, for either individual or family coverage. Although he was more supportive of labor at Verizon recently, Kennedy did nothing to "hold the line in '89"—or help us use that strike to build the movement for national health insurance.

A Free Trade Recidivist


Kennedy's disconnection from local concerns, whether labor-oriented or not, became a political liability when he ran for re-election a few years later. Early in his 1994 campaign against businessman Mitt Romney, Ted was not doing well in the polls. It began to look like Newt Gingrich's mid-term Republican surge might take Kennedy out too. Massachusetts unions had good reason for further disenchantment with their senior senator; over labor's strenuous objections, he had just helped Bill Clinton get the job-killing North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) ratified on Capitol Hill, while labor law reform was being buried in a useless White House study commission. Nevertheless, trade unionists rallied around the incumbent and helped torpedo Romney's campaign, by exposing the union-busting record of Bain Capital, his private equity firm.

After Kennedy was returned to office with only 58 per cent of the vote (his smallest margin ever), I pointed out in a Globe op-ed piece that Ted now had a chance to "repay his debt to labor." He could do this by bucking President Clinton and voting against the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) during the lame-duck session of Congress about to begin. As a post-election concession to his labor supporters, Kennedy convened a one-man Senate hearing in Boston so local manufacturing unions could air their objections to GATT. As one of many labor witnesses, I trooped up to Beacon Hill to inform Ted that GATT, like the already approved NAFTA, "will mean more plant closings, downward pressure on wages, health benefit cuts, and loss of union rights." Kennedy seemed irritated about having to be there at all. He interrupted and strongly objected to my insistence that GATT restrictions on "non-tariff barriers to trade" would lead to weaker protections for workers, particularly child laborers in the Third World. A Boston central labor council leader gave the angriest speech of the day. He told Kennedy that NAFTA was like "a knife you have stuck into the back of organized labor--and now you can either pull it out or plunge it in further."

Kennedy returned to Washington and, one week later, stuck the dagger in deeper. He voted for GATT, which created the World Trade Organization, and accelerated the trend toward "corporate globalization" already underway regionally, thanks to NAFTA. Running for president last year, even Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton expressed belated concern about the fate of workers' rights and environmental safeguards in various free trade deals. Kennedy, however, had no remorse, regrets, or doubts about trade liberalization--despite its negative impact on labor, here and abroad.


A Single-Payer Defector



In a cover piece for Newsweek last month, entitled "The Cause of My Life," Kennedy proudly recalled his backing for Medicare in 1965. After that vote, he continued to advocate expanded public health insurance coverage for another decade or so. But just as more Americans—like the NYNEX strikers in 1989—began to gravitate toward his "Medicare for all" position, Kennedy abandoned it. As he explained in Newsweek, "I came to believe that we'd have to give up on the idea of a government run, single-payer system if we wanted to get universal care."



Kennedy's badly-timed surrender had the effect of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. No matter how many more recruits the single-payer movement generated, political insiders deemed it "off the table." And what better evidence was there that national health insurance was "unachievable" than its one-time champion finally seeing the light and settling for less, in Massachusetts and nationally. Meanwhile, opportunities to build a stronger movement for real reform—like major strikes against health care cost shifting—were ignored, even in Kennedy's own backyard.

In 1993, Kennedy embraced Hillary Clinton's ill-fated "managed competition" plan, helping to deflate grassroots organizing for social insurance instead. He did lend his name to a 2006 bill to expand Medicare coverage but devoted most of his time, lately, to promoting the Massachusetts model of subsidized private insurance coverage, which utilizes individual and employer mandates to prop up our dysfunctional system of job-based benefits. Cooked up as a bi-partisan solution with Republican governor Mitt Romney (who now criticizes the Massachusetts plan), this budget-busting scheme is the current inspiration for "Obamacare."

Despite all of the above, Ted Kennedy's legacy will continue to shine in the eyes of many. The bar for determining what constitutes a "friend of labor" these days is only inches off the ground. In this period of mourning, let's remember that political sins are better forgiven than forgotten. The act of forgetting just sets the stage for future failures by labor to hold other allies—including those far less revered -- accountable either.



Steve Early was a Boston-area Kennedy constituent from 1980 to 2009. During that time, he was also a New England telecom strike organizer, national health insurance advocate, and union campaigner against free trade. He is the author of Embedded With Organized Labor, from Monthly Review Press, and can be reached at Lsupport@aol.com

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/22464
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
chlamor
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby n0x23 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:28 am

This is about a man who made the world a better place in a huge way, time and time again.


And what man are you referring to?
n0x23
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby DawnB » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:12 pm

Why Ted Kennedy, of course - a man who helped secure Meals on Wheels for seniors, the program providing healthcare for kids (SCHIP), saw that these key programs kept on going, etc., etc. He passed, and we remember him for how he made the world a better place. When you die, hopefully people will remember you for the positive things that you did.

Anyone who trashes a man on the day of his funeral, or thereabouts, is .... well, let's just say that such a person has very little credibility with me.
DawnB
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby n0x23 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:13 pm

Anyone who trashes a man on the day of his funeral, or thereabouts, is .... well, let's just say that such a person has very little credibility with me.


Well since he died on the 25th that shouldn't be a problem...oh wait, you also included the "thereabouts" clause. So how long is a thereabouts?

Regardless, I'm not here to trash him, so that doesn't apply to me.


Why Ted Kennedy, of course - a man who helped secure Meals on Wheels for seniors, the program providing healthcare for kids (SCHIP), saw that these key programs kept on going, etc., etc.


Okay, Meals on Wheels and a provisional healthcare...I'm interested in the "etc., etc".

Because with all the posturing in this thread, the only two accomplishment that are displayed as evidence are the same two that you just brought up.
So what else?

What about his ironclad insistence on the Estate Tax and yet him and his family found every trick and loop-hole in the book to avoid paying their "fair share", that Teddy was so adamant about?

So Teddy threw pittance to the serfs...okay, he projected a public persona of sympathizing with the impoverished, fine.... but what did he ever do to actually abolish poverty?
n0x23
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby DawnB » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:49 pm

Hey, we'll make sure that, when YOU die, we have plenty of negative things to say about you (and we'll show no respect at all).

:)
DawnB
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 169 guests