12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby compared2what? » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:40 am

Pazdispenser wrote:As usual, Im a week late and a dollar short (so to speak) coming to this thread.

c2w, I was quite taken aback (but, of course, that is probably because I have put you on such a high pedestal) that you would quote US govt statistics in making some points way back at the beginning of this thread. Long before I ever had cause to find Mr. Wells' musings to support an evolving worldview, I intuited that CPI was shite. Sure enough, the current formula (I like to call it "solve for 2.5%") doesnt include food or energy. In the mid naughts, real estate was removed. When home prices tanked, housing was reintroduced.


I know that it's a limited and blunt instrument. But please, by all means, if there's some reason to think that the CPI and all the other indices that the Bureau of Labor and Statistics are entirely pure fabrications that don't represent anything real at all, please tell me what it is.

Because until somebody does that, I'm just going to have to continue to assume that:

(1) the CPI is a time series table of numbers put together by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics that more or less reflects the prices consumers pay for goods and services including food and energy, and that the government uses the all-items rate on that table (which includes food and energy) to calculate stuff like cost-of-living increases in SS benefits, civil-service wages, food stamp issues, and so forth.

(2) until 2000, the Fed used the all-items-less-food-and-energy rate to represent the "core inflation" rate (which excludes food and energy) from that table as the measure of inflation by which they set interest rates, on the apparently generally statistically sound grounds that food and energy prices are subject to volatile changes that have no predictive applicability or correlation to the prices of other goods and services -- as well as on the grounds that citizens, investors, cats, dogs, journalists and (in short) anyone who either needs or wants to know the month-to-month rates at which prices for food and energy are changing can easily discover it by going to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics website, presumably. I mean, it's not like it's occult information.

(3) since 2000, the Fed has instead used the "core inflation" rate ( which still excludes food and energy) from the Personal Consumption Expenditure Price Index to calculate the inflation rate to which interest rates are pegged. The PCEPI is a hybrid of the CPI and the Producer Price Index put together by the Bureau of Economic Analysis using some different type of statistical approach about which I can't tell you anything, that stuff is only comprehensible to me when I'm looking directly at a very simple explanation of it, immediately after which I forget it all.

(4) I don't know what you're talking about wrt to housing. Back in the '80s, they changed....You know what? I have no clue what you're referring to. Help! Help me! The CPI does include the cost of shelter. They calculate it in a way that assumes stability, since historically, it's been a stable household expenditure by and large. So the CPI right now doesn't reflect the collapse of the real estate market accurately. However, since real estate prices have gone down not up, I don't see how drawing attention to that particular problem would help anybody who was arguing that the CPI was shite because it underestimated inflation. So I didn't bring it up.

I was also taken aback that the discussion would veer so quickly into "Glenn Beck said it? It must be false". Do I really need to bring up the possibility that the likes of Mr Beck are so effective because they will wrap a nugget of truth (in this case, wrt the Fed) in huge gobs of dis/misinformation (or perhaps a sweet crunchy coating surrounding a turd; I digress)? Those that listen to him are utterly confused and ineffective; those that tune him out, lump the element of truth with all things crap. Mission Accomplished.


I was joking the one time I said that. My point was that the source of the information in the OP -- ie, the National Inflation Association -- was demonstrably engaged in making dishonest, deceptive and alarmist claims about the economy for the purpose of suckering investors.

For some reason, I thought people would want to know that. Silly me.

Then there was the "hell with the top 10%" eddy in the stream. People. There are less than one million people worldwide who are driving and benefiting from this ponzi scheme**. They are the "top .001%" (in the US alone [they are, of course, an even smaller % of the pop globally]) That .001% is more than happy to see the rest of us 99.999% bickering and blaming each other. How much energy must be wasted justifying a teacher's salary ffs?

More than anything though, I can tell you that I have been amazed by the certitude displayed by so many presenting their theories in this thread. As someone whose professional success depends on making heads or tails of this subject (with a gold coin c2w), the more I read (and it has been total immersion lately), the less grounded I feel in making an assessment. Like shamus, I had been leaning toward HI. My current perspective is that the global economic system is much like a rotary mechanism (think washing machine). When tightly bound, and operating within spec, everything spins in an efficient structured fashion. But imagine a washing machine tank and motor without its casing. Now imagine that machine with a load of sheets going out of balance. It is eventually going to fly off in one direction or another. Can you predict which way it will spin out?


No, I absolutely can't. If you're asking me. I mean, like I said, since the past is the only predictive model that there is and the only thing that's ever worked during analogous periods of the past has been massive government-financed jobs programs and assorted other investments in the future prosperity of the nation as a whole, I personally would like to see them financing some. As I understand it, that's the lowest-risk/highest-return move available.

But like I also said, things are horrendous and are going to be getting much, much worse, imo. Just not in any way that I can see that implicates inflation and/or hyperinflation right now. What specifically inclines you toward HI? I'd love to hear your case for it.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:51 am

.

Given
- volatility in commodities and basic services (electricity and telephones be among those in modern life),
- extreme differences in how different people are forced to define "necessity" (health care costs being the obvious big ticket there, because they can differ so enormously among people and change so suddenly),
- extreme inequality in wealth and incomes,
- extreme differences in cost of living (from block to block in some places, thanks to rent/property values)
- and hidden income privileges of belonging or not to a set of overlapping groups (for example, the groups of those with expense accounts or company cars, or of those able or not to get a lower-interest loan for looking just right to the local banker),

CPI may be a weak and deceptive measure for understanding the thing we call "inflation" in the world. Did I say "may be"?

(As you consider the following, leave aside the present debate about HI vs. Def, okay? Because to show the inadequacy of CPI and also the political manipulation thereof, generally to lower it, does not mean automatically that one supports an HI thesis or the extremely bad politics usually associated with those who do.)

Personally, I see both a rationale and a problem in extracting the food and fuel measures as separate. There would also be a rationale to try to account for income by class, to devise different baskets of goods for measuring prices (poor folk inflation vs. rich folk inflation). A goods-basket is the basis for CPI and there's just no one goods-basket that you can say should be the sole basis, that makes sense for all the different income levels and classes in society.

The simple first conclusion we must draw is that one number just isn't going to tell you what you need to know, and yet one number is what everyone wants for convenience and what "the economy" needs to function. One number is what the politicians debate. One number seems to scientifically confirm or invalidate the strong feeling that people usually have about prices (usually, they feel that prices are going up, up, up no matter what the stickers say). There's actually no number more important than CPI because it is so closely causally related to the acknowledged king of all numbers ruling our world: GDP, with its massive impact on markets, investment flows and debates over policies and systems. Which is to say, raise the CPI and you lower the all-holy GDP growth. In fact, CPI (or equivalent in each nation) is the king of numbers for the IMF in its dealings with the countries in its clutches.

c2w? your discussion of CPI is not wrong but lacking. Start with the hedonic deflator -- a big issue in the 1990s that led at one point to the Bundesbank complaining about US growth stats and saying it was a nonsense technique for raising GDP. What's the hedonic deflator? I call it the Megabyte Bonus: It reduces inflation in certain sectors like economics [EDIT: gah, electronics] based on the supposed quality advance and thus value to the consumer. As though you were purchasing and consuming megabytes individually, instead of buying a computer. As much as one percent of GDP growth in 1990s was thanks to the hedonic deflator, which the Europeans didn't use, which means at times it accounted for most of the supposed difference between the "dynamic, high-growth" US economy and the "stagnant, socialist" economies of Europe.

That's just a start. The long and short is, no single-number measure of "inflation" can stand alone as an indicator in the same way as, say, straight-up income, which can be given in a fully fungible quantity and specified to-the-dollar on your tax return (assuming an honest filing and given that this is untrue once you get into the top 10% ranges). How many dollars a job pays can be compared directly to the job next door, whereas what goods one spends on and needs to spend on (i.e., the goods basket) cannot.

But John Williams is a lot better at this than I am.



http://harpers.org/archive/2008/05/0082023

Numbers racket
Why the economy is worse than we know


By Kevin P. Phillips

Kevin Phillips’s new book, Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism, is published by Viking.


Almost four decades have passed since the United States scrapped its last currency ties to precious metals. Our copper and nickel coinage still retains some metallic value, but not nearly enough for the purpose of currency tampering—the historic temptation of inflation-plagued or otherwise wayward governments, including, at times, our own. Instead, since the 1960s, Washington has been forced to gull its citizens and creditors by debasing official statistics: the vital instruments with which the vigor and muscle of the American economy are measured. The effect, over the past twenty-five years, has been to create a false sense of economic achievement and rectitude, allowing us to maintain artificially low interest rates, massive government borrowing, and a dangerous reliance on mortgage and financial debt even as real economic growth has been slower than claimed. If Washington’s harping on weapons of mass destruction was essential to buoy public support for the invasion of Iraq, the use of deceptive statistics has played its own vital role in convincing many Americans that the U.S. economy is stronger, fairer, more productive, more dominant, and richer with opportunity than it actually is.

The corruption has tainted the very measures that most shape public perception of the economy—the monthly Consumer Price Index (CPI), which serves as the chief bellwether of inflation; the quarterly Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which tracks the U.S. economy’s overall growth; and the monthly unemployment figure, which for the general public is perhaps the most vivid indicator of economic health or infirmity. Not only do governments, businesses, and individuals use these yardsticks in their decision-making but minor revisions in the data can mean major changes in household circumstances—inflation measurements help determine interest rates, federal interest payments on the national debt, and cost-of-living increases for wages, pensions, and Social Security benefits. And, of course, our statistics have political consequences too. An administration is helped when it can mouth banalities about price levels being “anchored” as food and energy costs begin to soar.

The truth, though it would not exactly set Americans free, would at least open a window to wider economic and political understanding. Readers should ask themselves how much angrier the electorate might be if the media, over the past five years, had been citing 8 percent unemployment (instead of 5 percent), 5 percent inflation (instead of 2 percent), and average annual growth in the 1 percent range (instead of the 3–4 percent range). We might ponder as well who profits from a low-growth U.S. economy hidden under statistical camouflage. Might it be Washington politicos and affluent elites, anxious to mislead voters, coddle the financial markets, and tamp down expensive cost-of-living increases for wages and pensions?

Let me stipulate: the deception arose gradually, at no stage stemming from any concerted or cynical scheme. There was no grand conspiracy, just accumulating opportunisms. As we will see, the political blame for the slow, piecemeal distortion is bipartisan—both Democratic and Republican administrations had a hand in the abetting of political dishonesty, reckless debt, and a casino-like financial sector. To see how, we must revisit forty years of economic and statistical dissembling.

A short history of “pollyanna creep”

This apt phrase originated with John Williams, a California-based economic analyst and statistician who “shadows,” as he puts it, the official Washington numbers. In a 2006 interview, Williams noted that although few Americans ever see the fine print, the government “always footnotes the changes and provides all the fine detail. Nonetheless, some of the changes are nothing short of remarkable, and the pattern over time is what I call Pollyanna Creep.” Williams is one of the small group of economists and analysts who have paid any attention to the phenomenon. A few have pointed out the understatement of the Consumer Price Index—the billionaire bond manager Bill Gross has described it as an “haute con job,” and Bloomberg columnist John Wasik has dismissed it as “a testament to the art of spin.” In 2003, a University of Chicago economist named Austan Goolsbee (now a senior economic adviser to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign) published an op-ed in the New York Times pointing out how the government had minimized the depth of the 2001–2002 U.S. recession, having “cooked the books” to misstate and minimize the unemployment numbers. Unfortunately, the critics have tended to train their axes on a single abuse, missing the broad forest of statistical misinformation that has grown up over the past four decades.

The story starts after the inauguration of John F. Kennedy in 1961, when high jobless numbers marred the image of Camelot-on-the-Potomac and the new administration appointed a committee to weigh changes. The result, implemented a few years later, was that out-of-work Americans who had stopped looking for jobs—even if this was because none could be found—were labeled “discouraged workers” and excluded from the ranks of the unemployed, where many, if not most, of them had been previously classified. Lyndon Johnson, for his part, was widely rumored to have personally scrutinized and sometimes tweaked Gross National Product numbers before their release; and by the 1969 fiscal year, Johnson had orchestrated a “unified budget” that combined Social Security with the rest of the federal outlays. This innovation allowed the surplus receipts in the former to mask the emerging deficit in the latter.

Richard Nixon, besides continuing the unified budget, developed his own taste for statistical improvement. He proposed—albeit unsuccessfully—that the Labor Department, which prepared both seasonally adjusted and non-adjusted unemployment numbers, should just publish whichever number was lower. In a more consequential move, he asked his second Federal Reserve chairman, Arthur Burns, to develop what became an ultimately famous division between “core” inflation and headline inflation. If the Consumer Price Index was calculated by tracking a bundle of prices, so-called core inflation would simply exclude, because of “volatility,” categories that happened to be troublesome: at that time, food and energy. Core inflation could be spotlighted when the headline number was embarrassing, as it was in 1973 and 1974. (The economic commentator Barry Ritholtz has joked that core inflation is better called “inflation ex-inflation”—i.e., inflation after the inflation has been excluded.)

In 1983, under the Reagan Administration, inflation was further finagled when the Bureau of Labor Statistics decided that housing, too, was overstating the Consumer Price Index; the BLS substituted an entirely different “Owner Equivalent Rent” measurement, based on what a homeowner might get for renting his or her house. This methodology, controversial at the time but still in place today, simply sidestepped what was happening in the real world of homeowner costs. Because low inflation encourages low interest rates, which in turn make it much easier to borrow money, the BLS’s decision no doubt encouraged, during the late 1980s, the large and often speculative expansion in private debt—much of which involved real estate, and some of which went spectacularly bad between 1989 and 1992 in the savings-and-loan, real estate, and junk-bond scandals. Also, on the unemployment front, as Austan Goolsbee pointed out in his New York Times op-ed, the Reagan Administration further trimmed the number by reclassifying members of the military as “employed” instead of outside the labor force.

The distortional inclinations of the next president, George H.W. Bush, came into focus in 1990, when Michael Boskin, the chairman of his Council of Economic Advisers, proposed to reorient U.S. economic statistics principally to reduce the measured rate of inflation. His stated grand ambition was to move the calculus away from old industrial-era methodologies toward the emerging services economy and the expanding retail and financial sectors. Skeptics, however, countered that the underlying goal, driven by worry over federal budget deficits, was to reduce the inflation rate in order to reduce federal payments—from interest on the national debt to cost-of-living outlays for government employees, retirees, and Social Security recipients.

It was left to the Clinton Administration to implement these convoluted CPI measurements, which were reiterated in 1996 through a commission headed by Boskin and promoted by Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. The Clintonites also extended the Pollyanna Creep of the nation’s employment figures. Although expunged from the ranks of the unemployed, discouraged workers had nevertheless been counted in the larger workforce. But in 1994, the Bureau of Labor Statistics redefined the workforce to include only that small percentage of the discouraged who had been seeking work for less than a year. The longer-term discouraged—some 4 million U.S. adults—fell out of the main monthly tally. Some now call them the “hidden unemployed.” For its last four years, the Clinton Administration also thinned the monthly household economic sampling by one sixth, from 60,000 to 50,000, and a disproportionate number of the dropped households were in the inner cities; the reduced sample (and a new adjustment formula) is believed to have reduced black unemployment estimates and eased worsening poverty figures.

Despite the present Bush Administration’s overall penchant for manipulating data (e.g., Iraq, climate change), it has yet to match its predecessor in economic revisions. In 2002, the administration did, however, for two months fail to publish the Mass Layoff Statistics report, because of its embarrassing nature after the 2001 recession had supposedly ended; it introduced, that same year, an “experimental” new CPI calculation (the C-CPI-U), which shaved another 0.3 percent off the official CPI; and since 2006 it has stopped publishing the M-3 money supply numbers, which captured rising inflationary impetus from bank credit activity. In 2005, Bush proposed, but Congress shunned, a new, narrower historical wage basis for calculating future retiree Social Security benefits.

By late last year, the Gallup Poll reported that public faith in the federal government had sunk below even post-Watergate levels. Whether statistical deceit played any direct role is unclear, but it does seem that citizens have got the right general idea. After forty years of manipulation, more than a few measurements of the U.S. economy have been distorted beyond recognition.
America’s “opacity” crisis

Last year, the word “opacity,” hitherto reserved for Scrabble games, became a mainstay of the financial press. A credit market panic had been triggered by something called collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which in some cases were too complicated to be fathomed even by experts. The packagers and marketers of CDOs were forced to acknowledge that their hypertechnical securities were fraught with “opacity”—a convenient, ethically and legally judgment-free word for lack of honest labeling. And far from being rare, opacity is commonplace in contemporary finance. Intricacy has become a conduit for deception.

Exotic derivative instruments with alphabet-soup initials command notional values in the hundreds of trillions of dollars, but nobody knows what they are really worth. Some days, half of the trades on major stock exchanges come from so-called black boxes programmed with everything from binomial trees to algorithms; most federal securities regulators couldn’t explain them, much less monitor them.

Transparency is the hallmark of democracy, but we now find ourselves with economic statistics every bit as opaque—and as vulnerable to double- dealing—as a subprime CDO. Of the “big three” statistics, let us start with unemployment. Most of the people tired of looking for work, as mentioned above, are no longer counted in the workforce, though they do still show up in one of the auxiliary unemployment numbers. The BLS has six different regular jobless measurements—U-1, U-2, U-3 (the one routinely cited), U-4, U-5, and U-6. In January 2008, the U-4 to U-6 series produced unemployment numbers ranging from 5.2 percent to 9.0 percent, all above the “official” number. The series nearest to real-world conditions is, not surprisingly, the highest: U-6, which includes part-timers looking for full-time employment as well as other members of the “marginally attached,” a new catchall meaning those not looking for a job but who say they want one. Yet this does not even include the Americans who (as Austan Goolsbee puts it) have been “bought off the unemployment rolls” by government programs such as Social Security disability, whose recipients are classified as outside the labor force.

Second is the Gross Domestic Product, which in itself represents something of a fudge: federal economists used the Gross National Product until 1991, when rising U.S. international debt costs made the narrower GDP assessment more palatable. The GDP has been subject to many further fiddles, the most manipulatable of which are the adjustments made for the presumed starting up and ending of businesses (the “birth/death of businesses” equation) and the amounts that the Bureau of Economic Analysis “imputes” to nationwide personal income data (known as phantom income boosters, or imputations; for example, the imputed income from living in one’s own home, or the benefit one receives from a free checking account, or the value of employer-paid health- and life-insurance premiums). During 2007, believe it or not, imputed income accounted for some 15 percent of GDP. John Williams, the economic statistician, is briskly contemptuous of GDP numbers over the past quarter century. “Upward growth biases built into GDP modeling since the early 1980s have rendered this important series nearly worthless,” he wrote in 2004. “[T]he recessions of 1990/1991 and 2001 were much longer and deeper than currently reported [and] lesser downturns in 1986 and 1995 were missed completely.”

Nothing, however, can match the tortured evolution of the third key number, the somewhat misnamed Consumer Price Index. Government economists themselves admit that the revisions during the Clinton years worked to reduce the current inflation figures by more than a percentage point, but the overall distortion has been considerably more severe. Just the 1983 manipulation, which substituted “owner equivalent rent” for home-ownership costs, served to understate or reduce inflation during the recent housing boom by 3 to 4 percentage points. Moreover, since the 1990s, the CPI has been subjected to three other adjustments, all downward and all dubious: product substitution (if flank steak gets too expensive, people are assumed to shift to hamburger, but nobody is assumed to move up to filet mignon), geometric weighting (goods and services in which costs are rising most rapidly get a lower weighting for a presumed reduction in consumption), and, most bizarrely, hedonic adjustment, an unusual computation by which additional quality is attributed to a product or service.

The hedonic adjustment, in particular, is as hard to estimate as it is to take seriously. (That it was launched during the tenure of the Oval Office’s preeminent hedonist, William Jefferson Clinton, only adds to the absurdity.) No small part of the condemnation must lie in the timing. If quality improvements are to be counted, that count should have begun in the 1950s and 1960s, when such products and services as air-conditioning, air travel, and automatic transmissions—and these are just the A’s!—improved consumer satisfaction to a comparable or greater degree than have more recent innovations. That the change was made only in the late Nineties shrieks of politics and opportunism, not integrity of measurement. Most of the time, hedonic adjustment is used to reduce the effective cost of goods, which in turn reduces the stated rate of inflation. Reversing the theory, however, the declining quality of goods or services should adjust effective prices and thereby add to inflation, but that side of the equation generally goes missing. “All in all,” Williams points out, “if you were to peel back changes that were made in the CPI going back to the Carter years, you’d see that the CPI would now be 3.5 percent to 4 percent higher”—meaning that, because of lost CPI increases, Social Security checks would be 70 percent greater than they currently are.

Furthermore, when discussing price pressure, government officials invariably bring up “core” inflation, which excludes precisely the two categories—food and energy—now verging on another 1970s-style price surge. This year we have already seen major U.S. food and grocery companies, among them Kellogg and Kraft, report sharp declines in earnings caused by rising grain and dairy prices. Central banks from Europe to Japan worry that the biggest inflation jumps in ten to fifteen years could get in the way of reducing interest rates to cope with weakening economies. Even the U.S. Labor Department acknowledged that in January, the price of imported goods had increased 13.7 percent compared with a year earlier, the biggest surge since record-keeping began in 1982. From Maine to Australia, from Alaska to the Middle East, a hydra-headed inflation is on the loose, unleashed by the many years of rapid growth in the supply of money from the world’s central banks (not least the U.S. Federal Reserve), as well as by massive public and private debt creation.
The U.S. economy ex-distortion

The real numbers, to most economically minded Americans, would be a face full of cold water. Based on the criteria in place a quarter century ago, today’s U.S. unemployment rate is somewhere between 9 percent and 12 percent; the inflation rate is as high as 7 or even 10 percent; economic growth since the recession of 2001 has been mediocre, despite a huge surge in the wealth and incomes of the superrich, and we are falling back into recession. If what we have been sold in recent years has been delusional “Pollyanna Creep,” what we really need today is a picture of our economy ex-distortion. For what it would reveal is a nation in deep difficulty not just domestically but globally.

Undermeasurement of inflation, in particular, hangs over our heads like a guillotine. To acknowledge it would send interest rates climbing, and thereby would endanger the viability of the massive buildup of public and private debt (from less than $11 trillion in 1987 to $49 trillion last year) that props up the American economy. Moreover, the rising cost of pensions, benefits, borrowing, and interest payments—all indexed or related to inflation—could join with the cost of financial bailouts to overwhelm the federal budget. As inflation and interest rates have been kept artificially suppressed, the United States has been indentured to its volatile financial sector, with its predilection for leverage and risky buccaneering.

Arguably, the unraveling has already begun. As Robert Hardaway, a professor at the University of Denver, pointed out last September, the subprime lending crisis “can be directly traced back to the [1983] BLS decision to exclude the price of housing from the CPI. . . . With the illusion of low inflation inducing lenders to offer 6 percent loans, not only has speculation run rampant on the expectations of ever-rising home prices, but home buyers by the millions have been tricked into buying homes even though they only qualified for the teaser rates.” Were mainstream interest rates to jump into the 7 to 9 percent range—which could happen if inflation were to spur new concern—both Washington and Wall Street would be walking in quicksand. The make-believe economy of the past two decades, with its asset bubbles, massive borrowing, and rampant data distortion, would be in serious jeopardy. The U.S. dollar, off more than 40 percent against the euro since 2002, could slip down an even rockier slope.

The credit markets are fearful, and the financial markets are nervous. If gloom continues, our humbugged nation may truly regret losing sight of history, risk, and common sense.


SEE ALSO: Gross domestic product; Inflation (Finance); Political ethics; Prices; Standards; Statistical methods; -Statistics; Unemployment

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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:44 am

from the article Jack posted:

Furthermore, when discussing price pressure, government officials invariably bring up “core” inflation, which excludes precisely the two categories—food and energy—now verging on another 1970s-style price surge. This year we have already seen major U.S. food and grocery companies, among them Kellogg and Kraft, report sharp declines in earnings caused by rising grain and dairy prices. Central banks from Europe to Japan worry that the biggest inflation jumps in ten to fifteen years could get in the way of reducing interest rates to cope with weakening economies. Even the U.S. Labor Department acknowledged that in January, the price of imported goods had increased 13.7 percent compared with a year earlier, the biggest surge since record-keeping began in 1982. From Maine to Australia, from Alaska to the Middle East, a hydra-headed inflation is on the loose, unleashed by the many years of rapid growth in the supply of money from the world’s central banks (not least the U.S. Federal Reserve), as well as by massive public and private debt creation


This seems like the most significant stat in the piece. That's really startling - especially if this calculation excludes food and fuel (which I don't know if it dose or dose not, but in keeping with the current methods of calculation inflation, it might)

That the news keeps telling us that these price increases have to do with speculation or shortages might just be cover for the real story - the start of a currency crisis.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby compared2what? » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 am

Jack --

I concede in full that it's a weak indicator, of which many valid criticisms can be made. The issue, to me, is whether it's such a complete shite indicator that it can be rejected out of hand as worthless, along with the twin weak indicators of a personally observable absence of significant, across-the-board price inflation and no particularly observable signs of general nationwide complaints and carrying on about significant price inflation.

In short, I do not hang my hat on that one measure or on any other. I just say that as far as I can see, based on the available indicators, we're in a non-inflationary period of extreme economic crisis and instability due to a contraction of the real economy the market and political causes of which I can identify that, due to its inherent volatility and unpredictability, might at some point become inflationary, because anything's possible. However, at the moment, I do not see anyone making a case that it will become inflationary that's based on anything other than rightwing inveighing against any and all government spending, deficit or otherwise, on a single damn thing besides defense and corporate welfare, the cause of which I can also identify and do identify as (a) political; and (b) not in my political or economic interest.

That's all.

Canadian_watcher wrote:That the news keeps telling us that these price increases have to do with speculation or shortages might just be cover for the real story - the start of a currency crisis.


Okay. I give up. There's a looming currency crisis and runaway inflation is just around the corner, which must be so, because it must. I fully retract all previous arguments predicated on the notion that it's a scenario that primarily entered the general discourse via the arguments of think-tankers funded by the deficit-hawk corporatocracy and, as such, a suspect one, on the grounds that they're not only not getting through to anyone but are actively annoying some.

Plus, I can't see the future, obviously. Especially when the presumption is that what would ordinarily be indicators of it have been intentionally obscured by sinister forces who have also obscured the telltale signs of their evil acts, which is an inherently unrebuttable argument.

So hyperinflation it is. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:24 am

compared2what? wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:That the news keeps telling us that these price increases have to do with speculation or shortages might just be cover for the real story - the start of a currency crisis.


Okay. I give up. There's a looming currency crisis and runaway inflation is just around the corner, which must be so, because it must. I fully retract all previous arguments predicated on the notion that it's a scenario that primarily entered the general discourse via the arguments of think-tankers funded by the deficit-hawk corporatocracy and, as such, a suspect one, on the grounds that they're not only not getting through to anyone but are actively annoying some.

Plus, I can't see the future, obviously. Especially when the presumption is that what would ordinarily be indicators of it have been intentionally obscured by sinister forces who have also obscured the telltale signs of their evil acts, which is an inherently unrebuttable argument.

So hyperinflation it is. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.


By the way thank you for your reply to my question of yesterday...I read it right before shutting my brain down for the night
so I didn't respond. I will go back and read it again though, and might have something intelligent to add (might not though, this stuff is thick for me)

On this post though, I didn't mean to be exasperating. I'm just throwing it out there that I personally have no idea whether or not there are real grain shortages or whatever shortages they report. I haven't done a physical inspection or survey of farms here or anywhere. I'm just pointing out that it's an element of the grand economy that we all seem to take on its face for whatever reason.. like how Oceania is perpetually at war with Eurasia and East Asia in 1984.

I absolutely agree that all of this is being/has been manipulated and I have zero clue to what end, or who will come out of it smelling better (except of course the usual suspects). Just shootin' the shit here.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby 23 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:36 am

Strategic hyperinflation starts to make sense, when it's viewed within the context of intentional pauperization towards the objective of increased dependency on The State.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby barracuda » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:41 am

compared2what? wrote:So hyperinflation it is. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.


I think we just got a "buy" signal, people!

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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby compared2what? » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:00 pm

23 wrote:Strategic hyperinflation starts to make sense, when it's viewed within the context of intentional pauperization towards the objective of increased dependency on The State.


Not if you can have as much intentional pauperization as the state could possibly wish for in its wildest dreams without hyperinflation, which you can. And also not if hyperinflation constitutes a death knell for the state powers on whose watch it occurs as well as for many of the corporate players that can't stay in the game because they can't afford the hyperinflationary ante, which it does.

Additionally, hyperinflation ceases to make sense when its viewed within the context of intentional pauperization towards the objective of increased dependency on the state once you actually try viewing it in that context. Because at that point, the realization that the prospect of hyperinflation is being used as a political justification for reducing and/or eliminating social security, medicare and other entitlement spending, towards the state objective of reneging on its obligations to the people who depend on such programs (which are state programs) will be bound to reveal that it actually makes no sense at all when viewed that way.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby barracuda » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:13 pm

That's right - money is worth-less, so why not just go ahead and pay everyone?

Despite the pain it may cause, hyperinflation could be an appealing economic model for those who wish to immanentize TEOTWAWKI. Things would change, and rapidly. But AFAIK, TPTB prefer TWAWKI. It seems to be working out just fine for them.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby beeline » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:31 pm

.

I don't think we're headed for hyperinflation. But why the hell is cranberry juice $9 a gallon? I need to find something cheaper to mix with my vodka.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:48 pm

23 wrote:Strategic hyperinflation starts to make sense, when it's viewed within the context of intentional pauperization towards the objective of increased dependency on The State.


Don't take it personally, but I would be embarrassed to write such a sentence. (Not that I haven't written such sentences, or been embarrassed afterwards. But my hope is to then eat my humble pie and take corrective measures.) These are incredibly vague and ideologically laden terms. "The State," capital T.S.?! If you're going to start with "strategic," which speaks of agency, a WHO, you've got to actually be able to name this someone, or an institution or organization a bit more definable than... "The State." Lazy.

Also, you should have some damn idea where the motive is, the perceived gain for this mastermind or planning authority of hyperinflation, or what the organized ideology is that's being embodied and where it is rooted and active.

Also, you should be able to explain why this "intentional pauperization" (as opposed to abolishing unions and breaking everyone down to China-level wages without even the China-level benefits, which is what your Tea Party friends a la Paul are already fighting for?) by hyperinflation would, in fact, cause any kind of "increased dependency," given

a) that hyperinflation in most cases leads to fucking giant upheavals and revolutions, rather the opposite of "increased dependency" and

b) this "The State" you think gains more dependents is actually rendered helpless to give them anything by this hyperinflation that's supposedly desired by its hidden supporters.

Geez, the more I start to unpack this, the dumber it gets. I'm making too much of it, perhaps, but I find this kind of statement to be excusable on page 1 of this thread, but coming at this stage it is insulting to the many honest efforts above, from various sides, to define terms and referrents, research facts, make arguments.

I'm also preemptively upset that these, my own words, may cause you to actually try. Go read something other than comic books starring S.P.E.C.T.R.E. as the Big Bad, a.k.a. "The State." For a while, and then come back in, oh, nine or ten years. Okay?

(Oh, god, am I mean? That may not have been as close to my ideal of Jackie Chan twisting his body a notch to flip a mook past his side into the river, as it was like Robert DeNiro pulping the underling's head at the gangster's banquet in The Untouchables. Sorry.)

.

beeline wrote:.

I don't think we're headed for hyperinflation. But why the hell is cranberry juice $9 a gallon? I need to find something cheaper to mix with my vodka.


Dude, priorities. The vodka itself has never been as cheap. Take it straight or put it on ice and start earlier in the morning. Seriously.

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby 23 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:01 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
23 wrote:Strategic hyperinflation starts to make sense, when it's viewed within the context of intentional pauperization towards the objective of increased dependency on The State.


Don't take it personally, but I would be embarrassed to write such a sentence. (Not that I haven't written such sentences, or been embarrassed afterwards. But my hope is to then eat my humble pie and take corrective measures.) These are incredibly vague and ideologically laden terms. "The State," capital T.S.?! If you're going to start with "strategic," which speaks of agency, a WHO, you've got to actually be able to name this someone, or an institution or organization a bit more definable than... "The State." Lazy.

Also, you should have some damn idea where the motive is, the perceived gain for this mastermind or planning authority of hyperinflation, or what the organized ideology is that's being embodied and where it is rooted and active.

Also, you should be able to explain why this "intentional pauperization" (as opposed to abolishing unions and breaking everyone down to China-level wages without even the China-level benefits, which is what your Tea Party friends a la Paul are already fighting for?) by hyperinflation would, in fact, cause any kind of "increased dependency," given

a) that hyperinflation in most cases leads to fucking giant upheavals and revolutions, rather the opposite of "increased dependency" and

b) this "The State" you think gains more dependents is actually rendered helpless to give them anything by this hyperinflation that's supposedly desired by its hidden supporters.

Geez, the more I start to unpack this, the dumber it gets. I'm making too much of it, perhaps, but I find this kind of statement to be excusable on page 1 of this thread, but coming at this stage it is insulting to the many honest efforts above, from various sides, to define terms and referrents, research facts, make arguments.

I'm also preemptively upset that these, my own words, may cause you to actually try. Go read something other than comic books starring S.P.E.C.T.R.E. as the Big Bad, a.k.a. "The State." For a while, and then come back in, oh, nine or ten years. Okay?

(Oh, god, am I mean? That may not have been as close to my ideal of Jackie Chan twisting his body a notch to flip a mook past his side into the river, as it was like Robert DeNiro pulping the underling's head at the gangster's banquet in The Untouchables. Sorry.)

.

I don't think we're headed for hyperinflation. But why the hell is cranberry juice $9 a gallon? I need to find something cheaper to mix with my vodka.


Dude, priorities. The vodka itself has never been as cheap. Take it straight or put it on ice and start earlier in the morning. Seriously.

.


Thank you for the entertaining respite. I enjoyed the chuckle. I'll place your opinion where it deserves to be placed. Thanks again.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:08 pm

.

I'm coming to the conclusion that our terms are just fucked.

It's turning into two extremely different worlds out there, one for rich and one for everyone else. The money is in fewer and fewer hands (and not being invested so much as used to conjure notional quadrillions). That means the prices paid for the sum total of all things bought can keep falling. Meanwhile, everyone else lack the cash to purchase the increasingly expensive necessities in their lives. It doesn't make any sense to talk of inflation as a single measure (sorry c2w?, I don't feel your last post really addresses that problem) when the inequality creates separate worlds. Obviously food and fuel inflation is a lot more "core" to us than to Dick Fuld or Angelo Mozillo.

In short, we have inflation of various necessities for YOU in a deflationary economy. Sometimes some of these prices also go down; the situation is volatile. The key is that you don't have enough money and the prices for crap you need keep surprising you. Gas goes up two dollars, drops again by one. Insurance companies jack up the premiums, phone companies charge you one rate today and another tomorrow, etc. etc. And the prices on fruits? Forget about it.

In the past, the situation of inflation for YOU in the middle of an economic depression has been given terms like "stagflation," but that's kind of a vague compromise too.

If we need a simple term, I like class war because it tells you the WHY this flexible set of troubles is happening, and also the WHAT to do about it, which is to assemble in large crowds of all ages, sing and share food, march, take over spaces, don't move, camp out, withstand the cop assaults if any, and say very nice things to the army when it arrives. Among other measures.

At any rate, hyperinflation is still a clear enough concept, although the term is problematic because it sounds like "inflation." It's something else -- a total loss in confidence in currency (and by extension: the state, the system, everything) leading not to "rising prices" but a complete suspension of money-value and barter. And no one's shown empirically

a) that it must come as a result of the various QEs or bailouts (increased money supply, but where is that money?), independently of demand or supply in the real economy, or

b) that it's the master plan, unless the master plan of "The State" is to render itself irrelevant.

Or wait. Scratch all that. I'm selling gold. Delivery will come at peak price, so it's a great investment. Send me money.

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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:47 pm

the cost and complexity of producing (printing) actual US currency and coins would likely limit the possibility of this happening. "hyperinflation" as it's been seen in history, is always aided by the government issuing large amount of script. That wouldn't be plausible here.

Now could we see "high inflation" - maybe, prices unevenly doubling in 5 years or less? very do-able

Could we suffer international capital flight? sure. which would devalue the currency and make imports more expensive.

I'd bet these would lead to high inflation, but not "hyper" inflation.
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Re: 12 Warning Signs of U.S. Hyperinflation

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:53 pm

I like that post Jack - I think it gets essentially to the heart of it. The news talks the talk of wealthy investors but the man on the street is increasingly completely separate from those rules.

If aliens are observing Earth, I think they must be laughing. Us trying to figure out a way to help ourselves out financially by trying to examine currencies would look kinda like the farmyard animals meeting to try and figure out how a mortgage lender might impact the quality of their slops.

"They" (big banksters, international crime families) just want complete power. The US is obviously problematic for them, beyond being their bully. Having the currency crisis looming out there (and seriously, we have to be able to admit that it is looming out there - at any time they could manufacture a reason to de-peg the dollar as the world reserve currency and poof, it's over) is a handy leveraging tool for keeping the mid level puppets in line - keep them sending out the troops, keep them buying and using new weaponry - keep them handing over what they've agreed to hand over.

We keep making the mistake of thinking that this somehow has something to do with what "they" want to see happen to John Q. Public. It doesn't - it absolutely doesn't. The mortgage lender doesn't care about the animals on the farm, much less what or how much they eat. The mortgage lender doesn't even care about the farmer. He cares about his investment and how he can get more investments. Sure, if he can use the animals or the farmer he will, but do his grand plans somehow include putting the screws to either of them? probably not, because that is so far from the point that it is laughable, really..

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