The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

[Elvis]

The link at the head of the 'Stalinists hail “liberation” of Aleppo' bears the subtitle,

[b]United Nations says over 80 civilians killed by government forces as rumors spread of large massacres

There are two things there:

1. What the United Nations said (civilians were killed), as
2. That "rumors spread" (the same rumors that come from the insurgent/terrorist spokespeople, recycled out-of-context photos & videos, many taken in other countries years ago, and laughably phony looking & sounding "this may be my last call" videos, etc.)

The two are combined as a complete fact in the first line of the Shiraz Socialist piece: "pro-government forces in Aleppo executing dozens of civilians including women and children."

It's a facile, disinegenuous juxtaposition I've notice in most Western "reporting" on Aleppo—because they have nothing else.

The arithmetic seems to go like this: likely fact + probably false rumors = rumors true!

Of course they had to add the bit about women and children if they want real sympathy. As if the army executing women and children would make any sense whatsoever.

And is it not a liberation?—from out-of-town, head-chopping and mercenary terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Nusra/Al Qaeda? I sure as hell would want my government to rescue me. As you probably know, when the "rebellion" started, Aleppo was never a stronghold of rebel sympathies.

Just watch the Syrians returning to Aleppo in that RT video: When shown the typical Western reporting, they look surprised. The look on that one guy's face is priceless..."huh?! nooo..." He is not acting.


I know you're sincere, AD, but I don't see how you can reconcile the rumors, literally fake news & recycled photos on the one hand, and these ordinary citizens of Aleppo saying the government is on their side and actually returning to Aleppo once the ISIS-ish groups were expelled.

Most Americans, including most of my friends, think Assad is nothing more than a "brutal dictator," but the election in Syria—barely reported in the U.S.—was probably much more honest than the latest U.S. election (if only for all those international election monitors).

I put 90% of the blame for the horrors in Syria squarely on the back of the U.S. Empire machine and its proxy war on Assad. I'm quite surprised that you see Al Qaeda/Al Nusra as the good guys in this, and that you can't see through the blatant U.S.-led propaganda about Assad and the events in Syria.

[stefano]

There are two things there:

1. What the United Nations said (civilians were killed), as
2. That "rumors spread" (the same rumors that come from the insurgent/terrorist spokespeople, recycled out-of-context photos & videos, many taken in other countries years ago, and laughably phony looking & sounding "this may be my last call" videos, etc.)

The UN as such actually did not say civilians were killed. That looks like a lie, too. Here's a typical report on it:Aleppo battle: UN says civilians shot on the spot. Right down the page you get to see what actually happened:

"Yesterday evening, we received further deeply disturbing reports that numerous bodies were lying on the streets," Mr Colville added, while admitting it was hard to verify the reports.

So it's an Islamist sympathiser, or agent, phoning up Colville (who's in Geneva as far as I can tell) and tells him 82 people had been shot dead, and Colville then tells reporters that. The reasons are more interesting than him being an outright imperialist agent, although it's fair to say that as a shorthand.

[quote="[url=http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=623825#p623825]As if the army executing women and children would make any sense whatsoever.
...
Most Americans, including most of my friends, think Assad is nothing more than a "brutal dictator," but the election in Syria—barely reported in the U.S.—was probably much more honest than the latest U.S. election (if only for all those international election monitors).[/quote]
Steady on, here. You can be relieved for the Syrian people about their victory in Aleppo without lying to yourself about Assad and the men fighting for him. He's a psycho, like his dad, and he has a whole lot of psychos fighting and killing and torturing for him. A significant number of them aren't Syrian - they're Lebanese and Iraqi Shias, who carry within them not only the PTSD of the past three years in Syria, but, for the Iraqis, the trauma of their own country's sectarian war, and for the Lebanese a history of war and political messiness going back decades. War fucks men up, and it's absolutely certain that at least some war crimes are happening in Aleppo.

And the 2014 election in Syria was arguably "more honest than the latest U.S. election," in the sense that there's no way of knowing whether votes were counted right, and lots of reasons to think they weren't. The voting sure as hell wasn't free and fair, though. "International election monitors," from Russia, North Korea and Uganda? Ha. Do you not get that those were specific people either paid to say that, or else anti-Imperialists who've convinced themselves any enemy of the West is a Goodie? Lot of that on RI, come to think of it.

[Nordic]

There are two things there:

1. What the United Nations said (civilians were killed), as
2. That "rumors spread" (the same rumors that come from the insurgent/terrorist spokespeople, recycled out-of-context photos & videos, many taken in other countries years ago, and laughably phony looking & sounding "this may be my last call" videos, etc.)

The UN as such actually did not say civilians were killed. That looks like a lie, too. Here's a typical report on it:Aleppo battle: UN says civilians shot on the spot. Right down the page you get to see what actually happened:

"Yesterday evening, we received further deeply disturbing reports that numerous bodies were lying on the streets," Mr Colville added, while admitting it was hard to verify the reports.

So it's an Islamist sympathiser, or agent, phoning up Colville (who's in Geneva as far as I can tell) and tells him 82 people had been shot dead, and Colville then tells reporters that. The reasons are more interesting than him being an outright imperialist agent, although it's fair to say that as a shorthand.

[quote="[url=http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=623825#p623825]As if the army executing women and children would make any sense whatsoever.
...
Most Americans, including most of my friends, think Assad is nothing more than a "brutal dictator," but the election in Syria—barely reported in the U.S.—was probably much more honest than the latest U.S. election (if only for all those international election monitors).

Steady on, here. You can be relieved for the Syrian people about their victory in Aleppo without lying to yourself about Assad and the men fighting for him. He's a psycho, like his dad, and he has a whole lot of psychos fighting and killing and torturing for him. A significant number of them aren't Syrian - they're Lebanese and Iraqi Shias, who carry within them not only the PTSD of the past three years in Syria, but, for the Iraqis, the trauma of their own country's sectarian war, and for the Lebanese a history of war and political messiness going back decades. War fucks men up, and it's absolutely certain that at least some war crimes are happening in Aleppo.

And the 2014 election in Syria was arguably "more honest than the latest U.S. election," in the sense that there's no way of knowing whether votes were counted right, and lots of reasons to think they weren't. The voting sure as hell wasn't free and fair, though. "International election monitors," from Russia, North Korea and Uganda? Ha. Do you not get that those were specific people either paid to say that, or else anti-Imperialists who've convinced themselves any enemy of the West is a Goodie? Lot of that on RI, come to think of it.[/quote]


Do all of these baseless opinions of yours justifies the US and NATO and the gulf states sending in armies of brutal murderous mercenaries who chop off heads, engage in cannobalism and cut the heads off of 11 year old boys? And who hold countless thousands of people hostage while not allowing them to leave their houses for over 4 years?

Because these mercenaries (driving Dodge Ram pickups now; their madters have upgraded them from
Toyotas) are actually doing the population of Syrians a favor. Makes perfect sense now.

[Elvis]

So it's an Islamist sympathiser, or agent, phoning up Colville (who's in Geneva as far as I can tell) and tells him 82 people had been shot dead, and Colville then tells reporters that.

Agreed, and Colville gets a scoop.

Steady on, here. You can be relieved for the Syrian people about their victory in Aleppo without lying to yourself about Assad and the men fighting for him. He's a psycho, like his dad, and he has a whole lot of psychos fighting and killing and torturing for him. A significant number of them aren't Syrian - they're Lebanese and Iraqi Shias, who carry within them not only the PTSD of the past three years in Syria, but, for the Iraqis, the trauma of their own country's sectarian war, and for the Lebanese a history of war and political messiness going back decades. War fucks men up, and it's absolutely certain that at least some war crimes are happening in Aleppo.

And the 2014 election in Syria was arguably "more honest than the latest U.S. election," in the sense that there's no way of knowing whether votes were counted right, and lots of reasons to think they weren't. The voting sure as hell wasn't free and fair, though. "International election monitors," from Russia, North Korea and Uganda? Ha. Do you not get that those were specific people either paid to say that, or else anti-Imperialists who've convinced themselves any enemy of the West is a Goodie?

You've got me there, and I'm sure you know more about the region than do I. I know the U.S. used to send renditioned terror suspects to Syria for 'special' torture; was never sure what the quid pro quo was there. I do want to understand Assad better, he seems to be a straight talker, the times I've heard him (mainly the sit-down with Kucinich); would it be convenient to dig up an example of him being psycho? (So few aren't I won't be shocked.)

[Sounder]

Elvis wrote...

Most Americans, including most of my friends, think Assad is nothing more than a "brutal dictator," but the election in Syria—barely reported in the U.S.—was probably much more honest than the latest U.S. election (if only for all those international election monitors).

Assad may be a 'bad' man, but he is a bad man best dealt with by those immersed in the Syrian context, and not by those on the outside informed by imperialist propaganda.

Is it the case that somehow, the people that are lying to us constantly are the force of 'good'?

Back when the Libyan operation was happening, I was so sad when reading the RI thread on the subject. Until Starman Skye stepped in it was constant implied expressions of white man superiority. Of course his points were ignored.

I am so tired of idealists trying to save the world.

The use of fundamentalist idealists to achieve objectives of 'liberal' idealists makes those 'liberals' (read imperialists) look to be dumb as a box of rocks.

Our bad is better than Assad's bad, therefor we are morally obligated to DO SOMETHING.

[American Dream]

Why I will no longer write for the Morning Star

Rabbil Sikdar

I loved writing for the Morning Star because there were some good things to it. It did give a voice to the disadvantaged and voiceless often. But not the Syrian ones. My three editors were two women and a black man, the first black sports editor in the UK and one of the main reasons I continued writing at the paper by the end (I had more or less switched to sports content). As a liberal left-wing working class British Muslim, the Star gave me a platform to describe the world as I saw it through my own eyes. To talk about the racism, inequality and other vital issues. But they have betrayed the children of Aleppo. The blood and tears of the people of Aleppo did not matter to them. I’m not going to be writing for the paper while they spout disgusting Kremlin propaganda.

[American Dream]

Amy Goodman still spreading war propaganda

Submitted by Bill Weinberg on Fri, 12/16/2016

We hed held out hope that Amy Goodman's atrocious Syria coverage was getting better. These hopes were bitterly dashed by her Dec. 14 broadcast on "Democracy Now," which was actually entitled: "Slaughter or Liberation?: A Debate on Russia's Role in the Syrian War & the Fall of Aleppo." ("Debate"?) Arguing the "slaughter" position was Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch and Ismail Alabdullah, a volunteer with the White Helmets. In the opposite corner was The Nation magazine's Stephen F. Cohen—a proven liar on Syria. He actually had the chutzpah to issue this post-truth barbarism: "[O]ne person's war crime is another person's liberation."

How is this to be interpreted other than the idea that war crimes are justified if some people in the targeted area are sympathetic to the aggressor?

This is exactly the kind of bogus even-handedness that we all decry when the "MSM" treats, for example, bona fide climate scientists and climate-change denialist cranks as equally legitimate. Here, Amy Goodman is treating those who oppose war crimes and those who serve as propagandists for war crimes as equally legitimate.

http://countervortex.org/node/15224#comment-453872

[Sounder]

Like I said; dumb as a box of rocks.

You as a western exceptionalist have no standing to intervene (advocating for the shipping and paying for killing machines) in the country of Syria.

Your ideology is bankrupt because it always demands escalation rather than reconciliation.

The hubris of interventionists is sad and pathetic, mostly sad to me because the results can only cause even more suffering.

So now to counter and run from this, how bout more content less emotional triggers and slanders that help us hide our shame at contributing to turning Libya, and now still trying to turn Syria into a total shambles. Warlords are us. That's the ticket.

[American Dream]

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2016/12/t ... mages.html

There are two different set of images in the Syrian war: but Western media only show one set
In reality, there are two contrasting set of images of the Syrian war: but Western media only show one set of images. If you look at Arab social media by different sides of the war, you see the two sets: supporters of the Syrian rebels show images of rebels helping civilians, while supporters of the Syrian regime show Syrian soldiers helping civilians. Of course, none will show his side harming civilians.
Posted by As'ad AbuKhalil

[MacCruiskeen]

I know you're sincere, AD, but ...

*cough* Steady on, Elvis. Claims to knowledge are often questionable, and very much so in this case

American Dream, I am very strongly convinced that you are insincere. You are certainly not participating honestly in this discussion. Honest participation would entail honest responses to points actually made and evidence actually presented by other posters. You never respond honestly and in your own voice to any evidence posted here or to any point actually made by anyone. You just ignore it completely. And then you carry on spamming up the thread with foul nonsense copied-and-pasted from Shiraz Fucking Socialist or whatever other sanctimoniously-moralising pseudoleftist rag you select from your capacious newsfeed to inflict on this Discussion Board.

For the millionth time, American Dream: Take part honestly and in your own voice or not at all.

Like I said; dumb as a box of rocks.

That's a tempting explanation, Sounder, but I'm not convinced it's the right one. In fact, I strongly suspect that there are reasons other than dumbness for American Dream's (sic) persistent, years-long spam-bombing of this board with pseudoleftist voices that are not his own. And, in particular, for his spam-bombing of a thread (this one) that is now successfully debunking a torrent of imperialist propaganda while Syria resists Uncle Sam.

The Empire does not take kindly to defeat, including the defeat of its propaganda campaigns. All it has in response is more lies, more rumours, more unsupported assertions, more and more and more spam.



We can test this easily by just watching and waiting.

[MacCruiskeen]

If this report from Syrian TV is to be believed (and I don't yet see any good reason to dismiss it), then some depraved bastard has sent a 7-year-old girl into a police station in Damascus wearing an explosive belt. It blew up, killing only her and slightly wounding one police officer. (I've just seen a photo of the dead child but won't post it here.)

From Lizzie Phelan's twitter account, slightly edited for legibility (and I've placed quotemarks around *suicide bomber*, because if this happened as described, then it was murderous child abuse):

Lizzie Phelan @LizziePhelan

Syrian TV showing pics of dead girl "suicide bomber" who entered a Damascus police station and detonated explosives.

Says she came into the police station saying she's lost. No one else except her is dead. One policeman with a minor injury.

This in Midan, the heart of Damascus. First suicide bombing since an ISIS suicide bombing on SayedaZeynab shrine in the summer.

https://twitter.com/LizziePhelan/status ... 56?lang=de

^^There are no photos at that link, btw. Just a short string of tweets.

ON EDIT: confirmed on several other twitter accounts, e.g. here (DON'T click on the link if you don't want to see the poor child lying dead in the rubble):

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status ... 4067527680

Will the BBC either confirm this harrowing story as true OR refute it as disinfo and #fakenews? Will any major Western media outlet even report on it at all?

Watch and wait. And please post those confirmations or refutations here, should any appear,

[Nordic]

Favorite headline as of late:

U.S. claims Syrians not dancing in the streets in Aleppo as Syrians dance in the streets in Aleppo

https://off-guardian.org/2016/12/15/vid ... in-aleppo/

[MacCruiskeen]

Meanwhile, the Empire continues lying to the world. Remember Comical Ali / Baghdad Bob? See the 18-second film at this link:

The 'Nimr' Tiger@Souria4Syrians

US spokesman John Kirby on Aleppo Liberation: "Honestly, Saeed, I haven't seen any dancing in the streets."

[folllowed by footage of several different crowds of liberated people dancing in the streets]

https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/stat ... 0425554944

John Kirby is such a barefaced liar. Even I had seen films of people dancing in the streets and I'm not the fucking White House Press Spokesman.

[Nordic]

Alice has resurfaced on FB. She's fine.

[MacCruiskeen]

Ah, great, Nordic, thanks. Viva Alice!

Our "Comical Kirby" posts crossed, btw.