Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[DrEvil]

An anti-vaccine hack/liar lawyer debates a piece of shit/liar lawyer on the dangers of a vaccine that doesn't exist, moderated by a random pyramid scheme (sorry, "multi-level marketing") peddler, and we're supposed to take it seriously?

Up next: Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow debate the finer points and implications of string theory, moderated by Martha Stewart.

[Grizzly]

fuck off,both of you...

[Iamwhomiam]

That's the last time you'll receive a polite response from me to one of your questions, Grizzly. Unnecessarily, you just made it personal.

[chump]

Huh?

I am also disappointed at the system insisting we sport a mask, and not surprized when someone's so obviously (properly) displeased. Suffice to say, it provides me no pleasure to say what I said about suckin' masks. Let me repeat that I mostly concur with the articles I posted - concisely describing why constantly covering your mouth and nose is actually unhealthy for healthy people, but rarely agree about everything anyone writes about anything.

The masks are debilitating. No doubt. Step outside and exercise... Now, run another lap without the mask. I think you'll accept that it's easier to function without your face smothered; not to mention the ramifications of government guidelines for group discussions and social distancing, and the communication issues that commonly arise when everyone's muzzled so you can't understand what they're trying to say, or see their expression for the subtle cues that people impart when they're talking turkey.

I remember when covids were called common colds, traditionally spreading - every semester. The kids bring it home and the family gets sick - some always worse than others, of course. Then, someone spreads the annual diseases - in offices, classes, clubs and gyms - where citizens share their recycled air. I consider myself lucky - because I sense my system's had plenty of practice being exposed to piles of dust, and who knows what, working in construction at so many sights - where I should've worn a mask and sometimes did.

I eventually learned to lay off a lot of the sugar and starch, and to not get drunk or snort any sh!t. When I feel like I might be catching something, I'll eat next to nothing, mix some orange juice, or maybe a dose of 'Emergen-C' powder, with plenty of water and my regular vitamins, and possibly drop a 'Zicam' supplement, and rarely a Benedryl, then go to bed early and maybe sleep late. Knock of wood, I don't stay sick for more than a month... at the most!

Indeed, diseases are deadly to those who die, but there isn't any question (in my mind) that the deadly 'plandemic' was designed from the start - for a (super secret state) psy-operation; and the epidemic programming propaganda we presently experiencing is simply the latest in a long, long, long, long, long list of intentionally engineered plutocrat crises designed to pillage the plebe's economy - for a new kind of currency - across the planet. Furthermore, the facade is symbolic of the psychic submission of civilized citizens to their craftily constructed pseudo reality... basically as described in this speculative video:

https://youtu.be/oLqLnw-rtNM
-

"Enabling and hastening the the suppression of ego to help facilitate a death of the old identity before the identification with and manifestation of a new one. Disguised under a mask and hidden away, the iniate is more easily able to transcend the self; pushed further toward that invisible line between the physical and spiritual realms. They are forcing us to wear masks, not because it is a proven measure against the Corona death flu, but because it takes away your humanity, your individuality, your soul... "

"Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks... There's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is, and often there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face."
- Dr. Anthony Fauci

"... It is a sacred drama in which you are the audience as well as the participant, and the purpose of it is to activate parts of the mind that are not activated by everyday activity... The mechanics of change through mechanism, a rythm to sink to, merge and flow with, a magnetic draw drawing one down the path toward trasmutation. Rituals are vehicles driving home those ideas... the information, the data, the symbols; which upon ransmission create the language by which society members communicate after they are initiated."

[...con'd]

I should probably add that my ears are ringing and I'm personally seeing many, many, many of these thick cable installations beneath a bunch torn up streets, and up above - drooping between the rickety old poles and some new gigantic, impressive pillars... and sometimes towers disguised as trees; and they're also installing plenty of dishes for sending and receiving EMF fields in schools, residences and business districts all over the cities throughout the state.

https://youtu.be/SgcAxGEtIJ4
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[liminalOyster]

The masks are debilitating. No doubt. Step outside and exercise... Now, run another lap without the mask. I think you'll accept that it's easier to function without your face smothered;

I jogged 2 miles in a mask this past week. It was slightly weird. It had no impact on my breathing.

[Elvis]

there isn't any question (in my mind) that the deadly 'plandemic' was designed from the start - for a (super secret state) psy-operation; and the epidemic programming propaganda we presently experiencing is simply the latest in a long, long, long, long, long list of intentionally engineered plutocrat crises designed to pillage the plebe's economy - for a new kind of currency - across the planet.

Interesting theory, possible, but the plutocrats are already pillaging the plebe's economy to the breaking point.

So all this virus broughaha is just to introduce a new currency? How would a new currency pillage the economy? Why is the currency itself important?

As I say, your theory is possible, and I'd like to understand it better.

---

You remind me of a close friend I see often, except he finds money questions boring and prefers the "covid is a hoax to make us all take a vaccine that will [do an unspecified something nefarious]" narrative.

[liminalOyster]

But there is no vaccine.

Bio-weapons are meant to kill all who come into contact with it; they are not selective when it comes to who dies ~ they all die.

I seem to be in total agreement with the rest of what you wrote, but IIRC, this is pretty clearly contradicted by semi-opaque incidents in the history of clandestine germ/bio warfare. Having a vaccine for a deadly agent, either to protect one's own troops/citizens, or as a bargaining chip, seems eminently logical. Further, the basic logic of germ warfare R&D after Bush exited the 70s treaty was to prepare responses to as yet unknown threats, hence needing to develop the threats in order to develop the response/antidote. The context and geopoltical mise-en-scene of COVID still strongly suggests a weapon, IMO. But if it is, my own rig int says a vaccine was being developed alongside it. Hence believing it was an accidental leak. There's no reason (based on my admittedly limited understanding of microbiology) to otherwise disbelieve it just made a zoonotic leap but there is alot of reason to believe there's such a taboo against socially acceptable scientists and commentators, much less reasonable poiticians, discussing the germ warfare origin possibility, that we're never going to hear about it, even if it turns out to be the case.

Either way, I'm marginally optimistic that replacing Trump with basically-Trump could lead to some small positive developments, despite all those black boxes which will remain identical (ie wicked inequality, climate collapse and further secret miltarization of city governments colluding with DHS, albeit more clandestinely so but with theatrical staged outrage so long as Trump remains in power) such as using the Defense Production Act to effectively produce and transportneeded equipment.

For the life of me I don't get the weird anti-mask claustrophobia. It's such a total non-issue once you accept that it's kind of, like super mildly, irritating.

[Elvis]

Aha! Age 56! He was clearly going to die from old age this week anyway.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/us/balti ... index.html

Chief of critical care at Baltimore's Mercy Medical Center passes away due to Covid-19 complications

By Ganesh Setty, CNN

Updated 6:21 PM ET, Mon July 27, 2020



Dr. Joseph Costa, the chief of critical care at Baltimore's Mercy Medical Center who treated the sickest Covid-19 patients, succumbed to the virus Saturday at the age of 56, the hospital confirmed to CNN

more

[Spiro C. Thiery]

For the life of me I don't get the weird anti-mask claustrophobia. It's such a total non-issue once you accept that it's kind of, like super mildly, irritating.

Let's all be fair for a moment and acknowledge that the creative aspect of the blog that drew many of us to this forum was not devoid of using imagery to bolster its intuition. We can pretend that it was oh-so invariably rigorous because it was backed by a lot of real information, much from the archives of deep conspiracy lore that would satisfy anyone longing for a more serious discussion of such matters. Nevertheless, it did at points diverge into speculation of the spooky kind.

So the relatively rigorously intuited idea that this crisis enables a heretofore in modern history funnelling of labour into the corporate fold can be combined with neat little psyopiness that includes i.a. anything you can think of as it relates to masks and shaming and dividing the populace, etc.

I also find the pasting and posting of any sketchy information that confirms one's biases irritating - a hell of a lot more than I do donning a mask whenever I go to the market. But let's not pretend it is demonstrably counter to the aesthetic of what got us here.

Now, as to the idea that some actor might have developed and released this on purpose without foresight of preparedness as it relates to having a vaccine ready for a segment of the populace - I'm dubious. If this is a deliberate attack, more likely to me would be that either someone assumed it would be controlled better by certain nations/regions, or that it is doing as intended. And it's not over yet. Further waves and/or mutations may still shed light on how much more serious it could get.

Still, the increased power of the largest corporations seems like the simplest and, as history teaches us, most likely primary utility of the crisis, deliberate or not. And an argument can be made that the handling of this should have been more swift, but with less restriction on small business, and more focus on testing and tracing and isolating the most vulnerable. This, however, would require a populace of sound enough mind that they wouldn't wig out at the suggestion of a mask mandate. And while such a populace clearly does not exist, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if every single country in the world didn't pick lint out of the navels for several weeks before seriously taking action. At least some of the people who've lost their minds regarding masks are no doubt people who have lost their businesses or are watching them being lost.

As to there not being a vaccine yet, and whether or not there will be one, international hero by default Fauci was just stating with what sounds like certainty the likely vs. more likely month this year when one will be available. I see no reason to judge a debate on the implications of a vaccine in advance. On the contrary, it is a crucial discussion. Even at its most innocent, the roll out will not be without casualties and other repercussions, many unforeseeable, which will stimulate its own Monday morning debate.

In short, I have yet to see anything anyone has posted here that includes theorising that would not fall into the glossary of terms over at the aforementioned blog.

[liminalOyster]

For the life of me I don't get the weird anti-mask claustrophobia. It's such a total non-issue once you accept that it's kind of, like super mildly, irritating.

Let's all be fair for a moment and acknowledge that the creative aspect of the blog that drew many of us to this forum was not devoid of using imagery to bolster its intuition. We can pretend that it was oh-so invariably rigorous because it was backed by a lot of real information, much from the archives of deep conspiracy lore that would satisfy anyone longing for a more serious discussion of such matters. Nevertheless, it did at points diverge into speculation of the spooky kind.

I totally agree with this, in general. And with keeping that alive here, This said, I live in a state where there's a long history of white people wearing masks to intimidate black people and, as it so happens, white people are now gleefully and irritatingly participating in an exponenetially dumbed down version of this shite's parapolitical glory days - masks are satanic theater, etc. All whilst black communities are disproportinately ravaged by all that boring stuff about public health and racial inequity.

So the relatively rigorously intuited idea that this crisis enables a heretofore in modern history funnelling of labour into the corporate fold can be combined with neat little psyopiness that includes i.a. anything you can think of as it relates to masks and shaming and dividing the populace, etc.

I also find the pasting and posting of any sketchy information that confirms one's biases irritating - a hell of a lot more than I do donning a mask whenever I go to the market. But let's not pretend it is demonstrably counter to the aesthetic of what got us here.

I certainly hope I'm not doing that. FWIW, I just saw a very strongly worded Lancet article tarring those who question if COVID is of natural origin (as I just did0 as "conspiracy theorists." I also should point out that I think the parallel between the parallel spectacles of "hygiene theater" right now and "security theater" after 9/11 are obvious and striking. It's definitely curious af that fomites got all the airtime they did and have been debunked but still lead to institutions touting their great disinfectant protocol for something that is obviously airborne. And that cog dis surely doesn't help instill confidence among those already in doubt that the crisis is being capitalized on rather than was pre-programmed.

Now, as to the idea that some actor might have developed and released this on purpose without foresight of preparedness as it relates to having a vaccine ready for a segment of the populace - I'm dubious. If this is a deliberate attack, more likely to me would be that either someone assumed it would be controlled better by certain nations/regions, or that it is doing as intended. And it's not over yet. Further waves and/or mutations may still shed light on how much more serious it could get.

Just to clarify, I think that, if COVD is a bio-weapon, it was probably being developed jointly by the US and China (maybe as an experiment in the old problem of germs not being suitable for M.A.D.....? But that it was leaked accidentally due to shitty containment practices. Didn't that happen with Ebola in Reston at one point?

In short, I have yet to see anything anyone has posted here that includes theorising that would not fall into the glossary of terms over at the aforementioned blog.

Likely, but the rigorous engagement with challenges to said posting seems a bit wanting,

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Note the body language and stammering, Re: looming vaccine. There is a less edited version somewhere that I can't seem to locate at the moment.




EDIT: here's a portion that was excised from the above clip, discussing corona vaccine side-effects. He does not present well and appears uncomfortable:




I won't dip into the mask wearing topic further, but broadly, I do not wear it outdoors so long as I keep "social distance", and in particular, I do not/will not wear a mask when exercising outdoors. I can understand the need for it indoors, in closed, low-ceiling spaces when in proximity to others.

Re-post of what I shared here earlier:

With respect to the highly charged topic of mask wearing, while I can certainly understand the logic behind wearing masks in closed/indoor spaces, particularly if keeping within a given indoor space near others for 5 or more minutes, wearing masks outdoors serves no purpose other than as virtue signaling/false illusion of 'safety'* (it may also very well be unsafe while exercising - did we all forget that breathing in our own 'exhaust fumes' is not advisable?).

This may have been shared here before: a non-political perspective on how the virus can spread, written by a virologist.

Good luck finding such nuance in most readily-accessible 'official' commentary.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them

Excerpts:

If you are sitting in a well ventilated space, with few people, the risk is low.
If I am outside, and I walk past someone, remember it is “dose and time” needed for infection. You would have to be in their airstream for 5+ minutes for a chance of infection. While joggers may be releasing more virus due to deep breathing, remember the exposure time is also less due to their speed. Please do maintain physical distance, but the risk of infection in these scenarios are low. Here is a great article in Vox that discusses the low risk of running and cycling in detail.

...

Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.
When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.

*added a strike-through to a portion of my quoted bit. unnecessary commentary on my part.

[Grizzly]

Re: looming vaccine.

What Vaccine!!!???/s

[DrEvil]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07 ... 9-vaccine/

First US Phase III trial for COVID-19 vaccine begins

Shares rise after 30,000 participants get their Phase III jabs.
Hannah Kuchler, Financial Times - 7/27/2020, 10:10 PM


Moderna has given the first doses of its experimental COVID-19 vaccine to participants in what will be a 30,000-person trial, as the United States moved into a new phase of the race to develop a vaccine by the start of next year.

The Boston-based biotech said on Monday that it had begun the first Phase III study of a vaccine in the US, a large-scale trial that is usually the last before a new product is submitted for regulatory approval.

The company’s shares were up as much as 10.6 percent before paring some of their gains.

Its trial is being conducted in conjunction with the US National Institutes of Health at sites across the US, under the federal government’s Operation Warp Speed public-private partnership. Francis Collins, the NIH director, said having a vaccine by the end of 2020 was a “stretch goal” but the “right goal for the American people.”

Stéphane Bancel, Moderna’s chief executive, told CNBC that he estimated the vaccine had a 75 percent chance of meeting the Food and Drug Administration’s requirement of being 50 percent effective.

“We look forward to this trial demonstrating the potential of our vaccine to prevent COVID-19, so that we can defeat this pandemic,” he said in a statement.

Moderna took just 42 days from receiving the genetic sequence of SARS-CoV-2, the virus behind COVID-19, to produce a vaccine for testing. Results from its earliest trial showed all 45 participants produced antibodies, and it expects efficacy data from its Phase II trial to be available in late August or September.

The company was able to move fast because it uses a novel technology based on messenger ribonucleic acid, which transcribes the genetic code of a virus inside a human cell, to teach the immune system to recognize it. But a vaccine using this technology has not yet been approved by the FDA.

Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech may also start their Phase III trial this month, while others in Operation Warp Speed including Johnson & Johnson and Novavax hope to begin their phase three trials in the autumn. AstraZeneca, which is partnering with the University of Oxford, has begun a trial designed to blend the Phase II and Phase III stages at sites in the UK, South Africa, and Brazil, and the company is expected to start at US sites shortly.

In its Phase III trial, Moderna and the NIH will be testing whether it can prevent symptomatic COVID-19 disease. They will also look at how effective it is in preventing all COVID-19 infections, even those without symptoms, and what impact it has on people needing hospitalization.

The trial will be conducted at more than 100 sites chosen to reflect a range of demographics and to ensure they include the most vulnerable populations. Mr. Bancel told CNBC that one-third of all participants would be over-65s, who are both more likely to develop severe disease and have immune systems that are less likely to respond robustly to a vaccine.

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said the early-stage testing had indicated the vaccine was safe and generating an immune response in recipients.

“Although face coverings, physical distancing and proper isolation and quarantine of infected individuals and contacts can help us mitigate SARS-CoV-2 spread, we urgently need a safe and effective preventive vaccine to ultimately control this pandemic,” he said.

[Blue]

An anti-vaccine hack/liar lawyer debates a piece of shit/liar lawyer on the dangers of a vaccine that doesn't exist, moderated by a random pyramid scheme (sorry, "multi-level marketing") peddler, and we're supposed to take it seriously?

Up next: Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow debate the finer points and implications of string theory, moderated by Martha Stewart.

I know the main crew here tries to remain robot-like and show no emotions but hey, DrEvil, I kinda like you and find you humorous at times.

But there is one huge blindspot you appear to have. Vaccines are not TOTALLY safe and effective and never have been. RFK's website has many pages of peer reviewed papers about vaccines causing health problems (including autism). Calling people names like anti-vaxxers to discredit them instead of actually reviewing the data they talk about is propaganda. And yeah, I remember when you claimed the VAERS claims files are meaningless because someone could claim a vaccine turned them into the Hulk. Way to discount the entire system. Which by the way has paid out millions to those lucky enough to have the god damned money to fight the United States of America's lawyers who are protecting the vaccine makers. At the taxpayers cost!

[DrEvil]

An anti-vaccine hack/liar lawyer debates a piece of shit/liar lawyer on the dangers of a vaccine that doesn't exist, moderated by a random pyramid scheme (sorry, "multi-level marketing") peddler, and we're supposed to take it seriously?

Up next: Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow debate the finer points and implications of string theory, moderated by Martha Stewart.

I know the main crew here tries to remain robot-like and show no emotions but hey, DrEvil, I kinda like you and find you humorous at times.

But there is one huge blindspot you appear to have. Vaccines are not TOTALLY safe and effective and never have been. RFK's website has many pages of peer reviewed papers about vaccines causing health problems (including autism). Calling people names like anti-vaxxers to discredit them instead of actually reviewing the data they talk about is propaganda. And yeah, I remember when you claimed the VAERS claims files are meaningless because someone could claim a vaccine turned them into the Hulk. Way to discount the entire system. Which by the way has paid out millions to those lucky enough to have the god damned money to fight the United States of America's lawyers who are protecting the vaccine makers. At the taxpayers cost!

I'm fully aware that vaccines aren't totally safe and have said so repeatedly. My main issue is and always has been the crazy people who think all vaccines are bad all the time, something they demonstrably are not.

Kennedy is far from the worst of the lot, but I'm no fan, and I don't think he's someone worth listening to for objective information on vaccines. Him associating with Andrew Wakefield and Del Bigtree should be a huge red flag, as they're both on the crazy end of the anti-vaccine spectrum. If he thinks they're okay then I don't trust his judgement.

The VAERS database isn't meaningless, it's just being misused by anti-vaxxers (and someone did claim the flu-shot turned them into the Hulk. Anyone can send in reports). The website itself says it's not supposed to be used the way anti-vaxxers use it (cherry-picking reports of adverse effects), it's meant as an early-warning system. If all of a sudden a ton of reports start piling in that people have X reaction after getting Y vaccine they know it's something they should look into.

As for the payouts, it's my understanding that they usually just pay without fighting it very hard because it's cheaper than litigating every case, which skews the numbers towards lots of vaccine injuries when in reality it's just the government choosing the cheapest option, vaccine injury or not.

The reason the compensation scheme exists in the first place is people suing pharma companies for huge sums over alleged vaccine injuries, which led to several companies throwing up their arms and saying fuck it, there's better profits elsewhere. The government then stepped in and took over the compensation scheme to ensure at least some companies would continue making vaccines (if you think it's bad just wait until you get public healthcare and all medical injuries are covered by a similar mechanism).

I tend to go full-bore pro-science, not because I think science is pure and perfect (it's a tool that can be used or abused), but because the anti-science attitudes a lot of people have makes me knee-jerk in its defense. As I said elsewhere, think of it as me giving a five star review on Amazon to counter a review bombing campaign, even if I think the book only deserves three or four stars. Just because I don't spell out my reservations every time doesn't mean I don't have them.

Tl;dr: I know vaccines aren't 100% safe, but they beat the alternative.