No, anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby GM Citizen » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:30 am

much stuff snipped....

The stormfront guy (not Jeff) says:

Jeff wrote:
I believe in this kind of net activism. The blog attached to this site has gotten millions of hits. It deals with a lot of other stuff like conspiracy, occult, etc but the discussion board always has a bunch of threads about Jewish power and influence in the world.

...

Hand's up, anyone, engaged in this kind of "net activism"?

I didn't think so. Only good "anti-Zionists" here, I'm sure....


Jeff, you may have other types in here as well. Not saying you do, but might be a wee bit possible:

http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=914

REQUEST FROM The Israeli Public Affairs DepartmentPosted: 7/22/2006 5:00:00 PM
Author: Amir Gissin
Source: http://www.standwithus.com


This project is supported by StandWithUs.
Its an easy way for you to help!
MESSAGE FROM
Amir Gissin,
The Israeli Public Affairs Department

Dear friends,

Many of us recognize the importance of the Internet as the new battleground for Israel's image. It's time to do it better, and coordinate our on-line efforts on behalf of Israel. An Israeli software company have developed a free, safe and useful tool for us - the Internet Megaphone.

Please go to www.giyus.org, download the Megaphone, and you will receive daily updates with instant links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a talk back, etc.

We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.

Do it now. For Israel.

Amir Gissin
Director
Public Affairs Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem


------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/articl ... =11&ar=695

Norman G. Finkelstein

Israel complains: Genocide getting bad rap

Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war

Following its invasion of Lebanon this summer, Israel was said to have largely lost the PR battle to Hizbullah, but armed with a major web offensive, it's fighting back

11.20.2006 | The Guardian
by Stewart Purvis

Amir Gissin runs what he calls '"Israel's Explanation Department". Which is why it is surprising to hear him admit that many Israelis think "the whole problem is that we don't explain ourselves correctly".

Last week, as al-Jazeera launched an Arab view of the world into English-speaking homes worldwide, Gissin was a man under pressure. At the David Bar Ilan conference on the media and Middle East, he faced an audience of Israelis who were unhappy about the way the propaganda battle with Hizbullah was fought and lost during the war in the Lebanon. They wanted to know how it could be done better next time, because most people in Israel seem to think there will be a next time with Hizbullah soon.

Gissin said the words of his English-speaking spokespeople could not compete with the power of the pictures of civilians killed in the Israeli attack on Lebanese towns like Qana. And the Israeli parliament will not spend the money on an Israeli counterpart to al-Jazeera.

But Gissin was not down-hearted. He declared there to be a "war on the web" in which Israel had a new weapon, a piece of computer software called the "internet megaphone".

"During the war we had the opportunity to do some very nice things with the megaphone community," he revealed at the conference. Among them, he claimed, was a role in getting an admission from Reuters that a photograph of damage to Beirut had been doctored by a Lebanese photographer to increase the amount of smoke in the picture. This was first spotted by American blogger Charles Johnson, who has won an award for "promoting Israel and Zionism".

To check out the power of the megaphone, I logged onto a website called GIYUS (Give Israel Your United Support) last Wednesday afternoon. More than 25,000 registered users of www.giyus.org have downloaded the megaphone software, which enables them to receive alerts asking them to get active online.

It did not take long for an alert to come through. A Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells, had issued a press statement condemning that day's Palestinian rocket attack which killed an elderly Israeli and wounded other civilians. GIYUS wanted site users to "show your appreciation of the UK's response".

One click took me to a pre-prepared email addressed to Dr Howells, and a slot for me to personalise my comment. A test confirmed that the email would arrive at his office, as if I had spotted his comments on a news website, in this case Yahoo, and sent it to him with a supporting message. In the emails, there would be no indication of the involvement of GIYUS, although Howells may have been suspicious that so many people around the world had read the same Yahoo story about him and decided to email him. The Foreign Office confirms that emails were received last Wednesday but will not go into any more detail.

The most popular target of the online activists is the foreign media, especially the BBC, the news organisation which they love to hate. Earlier this year I was a member of the independent panel set up by the BBC governors to review the BBC's coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We reported on the high number of emails we had received from abroad, mostly from North America, and the evidence of pressure group involvement. A majority of email correspondents thought that the BBC was anti-Israel, however if the emails that could be identified as coming from abroad were excluded, the opposite was true - more people thought the BBC anti-Palestinian or pro-Israel.

The BBC has already had one encounter with GIYUS - an attempt to influence the outcome of an online poll. BBC History magazine noticed an upsurge in voting on whether holocaust denial should be a criminal offence in Britain. But the closing date had already passed and the result had already been published, so the votes were invalid anyway. GIYUS supporters claim success elsewhere in "balancing" an opinion poll on an Arabic website by turning a vote condemning Israel's attack in the Lebanon into an endorsement.

For some of Israel's supporters, a primary aim of their war on the web is an attempt to discredit what they see as hostile foreign media reports, especially those containing iconic visual images.

One particular target has been the respected French TV correspondent, Charles Enderlin, whose Palestinian cameraman filmed 12-year-old Mohammed al-Dura being shot and killed, as his father tried to shield him at the start of the second intifada. Enderlin accused Israeli troops of shooting and killing the boy. French supporters of Israel went online to claim the report was a distortion based on faked footage. His network, France 2, responded with legal action and, last month, in the first of four individual cases, a French court found the organiser of a self-styled media watchdog website guilty of libel.

Another online target has been the TV footage of bloodshed on a Gaza beach earlier this year. A Palestinian girl was seen screaming as she saw the bodies of dead family members killed by what Palestinians allege was Israeli shellfire. When I mentioned the impact of these pictures at last week's conference, members of the audience shouted "staged".

One person came up to me afterwards to suggest that the family had somehow died somewhere else and that their bodies had been moved to the beach to be filmed. Where, for instance, was all the blood? I pointed out that I had seen everything that the cameraman had shot and that some pictures were too gruesome to be shown.

It is clear that the government of Israel wants to fight back against the impact of foreign media pictures like these. Amir Gissin talked last week of plans to get Israeli video onto sites like YouTube which he said were viewed by opinion "shapers". And his cousin Dr Ra'anan Gissin, formerly Ariel Sharon's media adviser, has endorsed the idea of having picture power at the country's disposal ready for future conflicts. Referring to Israel's opponents, he put it in his usual direct way: "You need to shoot a picture before you shoot them." Stewart Purvis is professor of Television Journalism at City University in London. He is a former chief executive and editor-in-chief of ITN.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:45 am

GM Citizen wrote:Jeff, you may have other types in here as well. Not saying you do, but might be a wee bit possible:


Could be. (Though please remember there is a rule around here about calling another member a disinfo agent or shill.) But Zionists/Anti-Zionists can have at it (so long as, as I said elsewhere, they don't burn down the house.) My concern is keeping the Nazis out. And you know what? They're often sneaky fuckers who like to call themselves "anti-Zionists."
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Postby Horatio Hellpop » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:05 am

Yeah Jeff, there's also a few "nazis" on this board who hide it by claiming to be concerned with the massive fucking injustice that is the Israel/Palestine situation so I think you should monitor those threads that are pro dispossession of the local population/ anti-dispossession, in case some of the anti-dispossessionists might be NAZIS!

Hey look over there! Is that a pixie?
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Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:10 am

"anti-zionist" doesn't have to = "anti-semite"

but so often it does and I for one am glad Jeff draws a line.

I can't even count the number of articles I've read on sites like Rense that begin something like, "You must understand, not all jews are zionist, and not all zionists are jews . . . and quickly progress into "the Jews did this and the Jews did that, those dirty $#@! Jews. but really, i'm not racist, i'm just anti-zionist"
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
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Postby Jeff » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:36 am

Horatio Hellpop wrote:Hey look over there! Is that a pixie?


Pixies to the left of me, Nazis to the right, here I am...
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Postby Horatio Hellpop » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:08 am

Your blog posts express a beauty and compassion that I admire. So apologies for the stupid sarcasm of the above post.

However, if we're to agree that for someone to define themself as anti-zionist does not equate racism/fascism or any other undesirable -ism then it's pointless to try and suss out who is hiding their racism/nazism under the term.

I personally don't think in terms of "Zionism". I've just never understood how the world could justify what happened to the Palestinians last century. The problem I had with apartheid South Africa was never to do with Afrikaaners being protestant or descended from the dutch and french........if you see where I am going.....they too developed a philosophy that they were granted that land by G-d himself.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:19 am

Horatio Hellpop wrote:However, if we're to agree that for someone to define themself as anti-zionist does not equate racism/fascism or any other undesirable -ism then it's pointless to try and suss out who is hiding their racism/nazism under the term.


I disagree. And I also think it's important for the sake of sincere anti-Zionists and the justifiable criticism of Israeli policy that the Nazi cancers be rooted out.

It's not impossible, either. It's just mostly thankless. Consider the advice from a Stormfront infiltrator:

"When I discuss Israel and the Jews, I try to talk of the evils of the state of Israel, and if they are ready for it, introduce more. The fact is that most of what we struggle against is the big picture - the superstructures in place by the Jews in power."

So it's watching for code words; shades of nuance and subtle shifts away from Israel as a state to Jews as a people, even while under the guise of "anti-Zionism."
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Postby sunny » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:22 am

So it's watching for code words; shades of nuance and subtle shifts away from Israel as a state to Jews as a people, even while under the guise of "anti-Zionism."


EXACTLY.
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Postby Doodad » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:15 am

In the discourse surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, extreme criticisms of Israel (e.g. Israel is an apartheid state, the Israel Defense Forces deliberately target Palestinian civilians) coupled with extreme policy proposals (e.g. boycott of Israeli academics and institutions, divest from companies doing business with Israel) have sparked counter-claims that such criticisms are anti-Semitic (for only Israel is singled out). Our research shines a different, statistical light on this question: based on a survey of 500 citizens in each of 10 European countries (for a total sample of 5,000), we ask whether those with extreme anti-Israel views are more likely to be anti-Semitic. Even after controlling for numerous potentially confounding factors, we find that anti-Israel sentiment consistently predicts the probability that an individual is anti-Semitic, with the likelihood of measured anti-Semitism increasing with the extent of anti-Israel sentiment observed.


http://www.yale.edu/isps/seminars/antis ... /kaplan.pd
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Postby GM Citizen » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:13 pm

Doodad wrote:
In the discourse surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, extreme criticisms of Israel (e.g. Israel is an apartheid state, the Israel Defense Forces deliberately target Palestinian civilians) coupled with extreme policy proposals (e.g. boycott of Israeli academics and institutions, divest from companies doing business with Israel) have sparked counter-claims that such criticisms are anti-Semitic (for only Israel is singled out). Our research shines a different, statistical light on this question: based on a survey of 500 citizens in each of 10 European countries (for a total sample of 5,000), we ask whether those with extreme anti-Israel views are more likely to be anti-Semitic. Even after controlling for numerous potentially confounding factors, we find that anti-Israel sentiment consistently predicts the probability that an individual is anti-Semitic, with the likelihood of measured anti-Semitism increasing with the extent of anti-Israel sentiment observed.



Data was supplied by the ADL. Rules out any impartiality.

Please try again. Thank you.
http://www.yale.edu/isps/seminars/antis ... /kaplan.pd
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Postby Jeff » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:34 pm

GM Citizen wrote:Data was supplied by the ADL. Rules out any impartiality.


Not precisely. From the Yale link: "the Anti-Defamation League commissioned First International Resources to develop a study of attitudes.... The resulting survey was administered by Taylor Nelson Sofres via telephone, resulting in interviews with 500 citizens in each of 10 countries for a total sample of 5,000."

When the Council on American-Islamic Relations releases a study saying discrimination and harassment of Muslim Americans is on the rise, should it be dismissed because the data was supplied by CAIR. Rules out any impartiality?
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:40 pm

I view zionism as a particularly virulent and destructive form of racism. Now, in my humble opinion, racism may be abhorent and yucky, but it should not be a crime, as long as it remains someone's opinion.

So, for example, I would not support zionists being arrested and jailed for holding what to me are repulsive zionist views.

But once those views are translated into actions that cause physical harm to others, ah...then we are talking about crimes.

The thing about crimes, is that except in racist regimes, whether a crime has been committed does not depend on the ethnicity or religion of the victim.

In Israel, of course, as in the zionist paradigm, the ethnicity and/or religion of both the victim and the perpetrator determine whether the perpetrator is a terrorist or a hero, and whether there even WAS a victim.

In the zionist paradigm, Israel must never be forced, or even pressured, to comply with international law. On the contrary: it should receive unconditional support for its atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity, and those who object should be bullied into silence.

One way of bullying dissidents, is to accuse them of secretly being anti-semites, without any evidence whatsoever. The charge, theoretically, should be enough to intimidate anyone into shutting up.

So, for example, if someone makes statements of fact, such as:

1) Israel is a criminal rogue state, driven by a racist ideology that justifies, even sanctifies the genocide and ethnic cleansing in which it has been engaged since its inception;

2) Israel and its zionist agents are influential war-mongers who devote massive resources to propagate lies in the pursuit of wars that have cost millions of innocent people their homes, their lives and their freedom;

3) Israel and its zionist agents openly promote a dehumanizing, false, racist image of Arabs and Muslims designed to justify, even glorify the oppression, even murder of innocent people, as long as this is perceived to be for Israel's benefit, and rather than be reviled and discredited, are rewarded and honored as "scholars", "distinguished journalists" and "Middle East experts";

4) The zionist entity is illegitimate from a legal and moral point of view, because its very existence as a Judeo-supremacist state on Arab land is incompatible with international law and recognized standards of decency;

If someone argues that this is the basis for their utter opposition to zionism as an ideology and Israel as a state, then, according to the zionist paradigm they are a "disguising" their anti-semitism as anti-zionism.

I submit that such an accusation is itself racist. It presupposes that the victims of zionism are not sufficiently human to warrant such passionate opposition to the ideology that glorifies their oppressors and killers.

It presupposes that genocide against such inferior races is simply not such a big deal. That empathy and outrage are somehow not justified when the victims are just ragheads, sand-niggers and Islamofascists.

That Israel's crimes, the shamelessness of its zionist apologists and propagandists, do not justify active opposition by people of conscience. Or even by ordinary citizens whose taxes have funded a government comprised of individuals selected for their loyalty to the zionist state, and who wake up to the fact that the never-ending "War on Terror" is a big smokescreen behind which their economy and their freedom are being gutted in the service of Oded Yinon's blue-print.

It would make sense to equate "anti-Jewish attitudes" with "anti-Muslim attitudes", because then we are equating racist VIEWS with other racist VIEWS. As an anti-zionist, I have no quarrel with that.

What I object to, most strenuously, on the other hand, is the utterly revolting zionist 'talking point' that the FEAR of anti-Jewish crimes justifies suppressing moral opposition to the ACTUAL crimes that are the prerequisite of the continued existence of the zionist state. There is no moral equivalency between racist attitudes and the kind of atrocities that have accompanied every stage of Israel's evolution and expansion.

Finally, I would submit that, while the racists of Stormfront are preoccupied with various "sneaky" subterfuges to disguise their foul racism, their zionist counterparts are not nearly as inhibited:

Dr. Daniel Pipes, American Historian, Distinguished Professor, Founder of Campus Watch, is a former member of the board of the federally-funded U.S. Institute for Peace (along with Douglas Feith, undersecretary of Defense and Harriet Zimmerman, of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), frequent contributor to the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and New York Times, and, according to CNN, "one of the country's leading experts on the Middle East", recipient of the Guardian of Zion award. He was a strong advocate of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, He is currently an advisor to the presidential campaign of Rudolph Giuliani:

“[The] increased stature, and affluence, and enfranchisement of American Muslims…will present true dangers to American Jews.”


http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section ... m=2&y=2005

More from the distinguished Dr. Pipes:

For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam implies an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching for Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim population.

And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this proposition. Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities should direct special attention toward Muslims living in America, either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their mosques, or infiltrating their organizations.

Also encouraging, the survey finds the more people follow TV news, the more likely they are to support these common-sense steps. Those who are best informed about current issues, in other words, are also the most sensible
about adopting self-evident defensive measures.

That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of this realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully intimidated public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on Muslims.

In America, this intimidation results in large part from a revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation, and internment of ethnic Japanese during World War II. Although more than 60 years past, these events matter yet deeply today, permitting the victimization lobby, in compensation for the supposed horrors of internment, to condemn in advance any use of ethnicity, nationality, race, or religion in formulating domestic security policy.

Denying that the treatment of ethnic Japanese resulted from legitimate national security concerns, this lobby has established that it resulted solely from a combination of "wartime hysteria" and "racial prejudice." As radical groups like the American Civil Liberties Union wield this interpretation, in the words of Michelle Malkin, "like a bludgeon over the War on Terror debate," they pre-empt efforts to build an effective defense against today's Islamist enemy.

Fortunately, the intrepid Ms. Malkin, a columnist and specialist on immigration issues, has re-opened the internment file. Her recently published book, bearing the provocative title In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror (Regnery), starts with the unarguable premise that in time of war, "the survival of the nation comes first." From there, she draws the corollary that "Civil liberties are not sacrosanct."

...

She correctly concludes that, especially in time of war, governments should take into account nationality, ethnicity, and religious affiliation in their homeland security policies and engage in what she calls "threat profiling." These steps may entail bothersome or offensive measures but, she argues, they are preferable to "being incinerated at your office desk by a flaming hijacked plane."


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1309583/posts

(I strongly recommend checking out the comments in the above link as well - Alice)

Michael Ledeen, Resident Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute; contributing editor at the National Review newspaper; founding member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), which counts VP Dick Cheney as a member; and the only full-time international affairs analyst regularly consulted by Karl Rove. According to the Washington Post, "More than once, Ledeen has seen his ideas, faxed to Rove, become official policy or rhetoric."

A sample of Dr. Ledeen's expert guidance:

Blessedly, President Bush knows by now that the Palestinian question can only be addressed effectively once the war against Saddam and his ilk has been won. And then Scowcroft says "Saddam is a problem, but he's not a problem because of terrorism."

This is the head of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Commission? Doesn't he read the newspapers? He doesn't seem to realize that Saddam is actively supporting al Qaeda, and Abu Nidal, and Hezbollah.

However, nobody is perfect, and Scowcroft has managed to get one thing half right, even though he misdescribes it. He fears that if we attack Iraq "I think we could have an explosion in the Middle East. It could turn the whole region into a caldron and destroy the War on Terror."

One can only hope that we turn the region into a cauldron, and faster, please. If ever there were a region that richly deserved being cauldronized, it is the Middle East today. If we wage the war effectively, we will bring down the terror regimes in Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and either bring down the Saudi monarchy or force it to abandon its global assembly line to indoctrinate young terrorists.

That's our mission in the war against terror.


The most dangerous course of action is Scowcroft's: Finesse Iraq, and squander our energies fecklessly trying to broker peace between Israel and the terrorists.


http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen080602a.asp


Arnon The Arab Counter And The Animals Of Gaza

Sometimes you hear people involved in the I/P conflict complain of the other side: "They don't want peace". I think that's a silly thing to say, because everybody wants peace - who wouldn't? It's just that some people want other things a little bit more.

"Of course everyone wants peace, but every bugger wants it on his own terms", as Admiral Sir Jackie Fisher once put it.

In Israel too, everybody wants peace, but the one thing that some people want just a little more than peace is land. Somebody else's land. Israelis already have a land, theoretically in the legal boundaries of 1947, but in terms of international consensus, actually within the expanded boundaries of 1967. But some Israelis would like to keep all, or at least the most valuable parts, of the Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

None of this land belongs to Israel, the vast majority (excluding Jerusalem which was to be an international city) was assigned by the UN to Arab Palestine, and Israel's ongoing attempt to colonize it ensures there will never be self-determination for the Palestinians, acceptance of Israel within the region, or peace for either of them (or for us). In its simplest form, the impasse in Arab-Israeli relations since Camp David I comes down to this: "The Arabs wanted their land back and then they wanted peace with Israel. The Israelis wanted peace but wanted to keep some of the Arab land." (Fisk).

This is also the key to why, after 15 years of “peace process”, there is no peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Because, in a conflict over land, Israel used the process not to get out of the occupied territory, but rather to colonize more and more of it. For successive Israeli governments, the peace process simply meant the establishment of a Palestinian "authority" that would stop resistance to Israeli expansion while that expansion continued, and actually accelerated. The PA would be Israel’s security sub-contractor in the Occupied Territories, as Benjamin Netanyahu put it.

Israel’s governments treated the PA with such contempt because Israel enjoys overwhelming military superiority. Judging by Ehud Olmert’s proposed “convergence” of West Bank settlers into the major settlement blocs, the incoming government too believes that this military superiority will allow it to keep control of Palestinian land and have, if not exactly peace, then at least a manageable low-intensity conflict that can be fought mostly out of sight in the Occupied Territories. To successive Israeli governments, managing an endless, low-intensity conflict has been preferable to resolving the conflict by agreement with the Palestinians, because this would involve finally giving up the Occupied Territories.

Meet Arnon Soffer.

Professor Soffer was a confidant of former P.M. Ariel Sharon, and is a leading theoretician behind Israel’s policy of disengagement from the Palestinians. Indeed, his work is believed to have been a key factor in influencing Mr Sharon to remove the vastly-outnumbered Israeli settlers from the Gaza Strip, because Prof. Soffer is one of Israel’s leading demographers, and his obsession is the growth of the Arab population and the “time bomb” this represents for a Jewish state. (Hence his nickname, “Arnon the Arab Counter”).

Prof. Soffer is a strong supporter of disengagement from the Palestinians and construction of a separation wall. Not a wall on the Green Line, where it would be a safeguard for Israel’s security within negotiated, recognised borders, but a punitive wall that is used as a weapon to incarcerate the Palestinians in those areas where they are most concentrated, leaving the land itself free for Israeli settlement.

Prof. Soffer is not stupid, and knows there is no hope the Palestinians will accept that their fate is to be penned in enclosures while Israel annexes their land, their future capital, and their water resources. On the other hand, he also knows that as they are vastly outgunned by Israel there is not a great deal that they can do about it. One of the few things they can do from their enclosures is to lob their crappy homemade Qassam rockets in the general direction of Israel, but Prof. Soffer has an answer for that too, and we are seeing that answer in action right now in the northern Gaza Strip, where the IDF is engaged in an ongoing campaign of artillery fire against residential neighbourhoods in the area of Bayt Lahia.

Qassams are portable, low-tech weapons. Even when the IDF was on the ground in the Gaza Strip, it could not respond quickly enough to prevent their launch, and neither could the PA security forces. So Israel's policy now is to bombard the civilian population of the Gaza Strip until their suffering is so great that they will find a way to stop what Israel and the PA cannot. Shaul Mofaz or Dan Halutz cannot come out and say that they are targetting civilians – they would be setting themselves up for a War Crimes tribunal – instead the IDF announces that it will fire shells 100 metres from civilian areas (knowing full well that shrapnel from even the most perfectly-aimed shell has a range of 100 metres from point of impact, and that they are therefore firing on civilians
.

As a mere theoretician behind the policy, Amnon Soffer can be much more open than the Chief of Staff or the Minister of Defence about the fact that bombing civilians is simply something you have to do in order to terrorize the Palestinians into accepting your unilaterally imposed borders:

First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It's a fence that we will be guarding on either side. Instead of entering Gaza, the way we did last week, we will tell the Palestinians that if a single missile is fired over the fence, we will fire 10 in response. And women and children will be killed, and houses will be destroyed. After the fifth such incident, Palestinian mothers won't allow their husbands to shoot Kassams, because they will know what's waiting for them.

Second of all, when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it's going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger [b]animals
than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It's going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day (Source)


This is why it is a lie when the Israelis call the dead civilians of Bayt Lahia “collateral damage”. Given a choice between negotiating an end to the Occupation or trying to hold on to the choicest Palestinian land by force, Israel has chosen unilateral annexation, in the full knowledge that this will involve inflicting harm on civilians in order to force the Palestinians to accept what they would never freely assent to. This is not “accidental” or “collateral”, it is simply what you are reduced to when you are running out of ways to hold on to land that isn't yours, and mistakenly believe that your military strength will save you from having to negotiate.

So, to sum up, this is Professor Arnon Soffer, Professor of Geography at the University of Haifa, who believes that firing shells at women and children is an acceptable method of enforcing Israel's unilateral annexation of occupied Palestinian land:

Image

And these are the "animals" of the Gaza Strip, who have to be indiscriminately bombed and terrorized so that people like Prof. Soffer can hold on by force to what is not theirs, and continue to evade a negotiated peace:

Image

A Palestinian baby wounded by an Israeli tank shell in Beit Lahiya lies in a hospital bed Tuesday, April 4, 2006. Israeli tanks fired shells at the northern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, directly hitting one house and killing a Palestinian and wounding seven others, including a mother and her baby, Palestinian security and rescue workers said . (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra).

Image

A wounded Palestinian baby is brought to a hospital after an Israeli artillery shell hit her house in the northern Gaza strip April 10, 2006. (REUTERS/Mohammed Salem).

Image

A seriously wounded child is rushed into the hospital after a house was hit by Israeli shelling in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya Monday, April 10, 2006. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa).

Image

A seriously wounded child is treated in hospital after a house was hit by Israeli shelling in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya Monday, April 10, 2006. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa).


Image

The body of Palestinian girl Hadil Ghraben, 8, is taken off a stretcher at the hospital after her family house was hit by Israeli shelling in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya Monday, April 10, 2006. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa).


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The wounded Palestinian mother and siblings of four-year-old Hadeel Ghabeen mourn during her funeral April 11, 2006 after an Israeli artillery shell hit their house in the northern Gaza strip. (REUTERS/Mohammed Salem).


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Palestinian mourners carry the body of eight-year-old Hadil Ghaber during her funeral in Beit Lahia. (AFP/Mohammed Abed).

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news ... arabs.html
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Postby chlamor » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:40 pm

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Jews for Justice has made this excellent resource available to people around the world. We have converted their booklet to a more easily copied format. Download it!

Introduction
Early History of the Region
The British Mandate Period: 1920-1948
The UN Partition of Palestine
Statehood and Expulsion - 1948
The 1967 War and Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
[1973 War (Known in Israel as the Yom Kippur War) - Addendum by If Americans Knew]
The History of Terrorism in the Region
Jewish Criticism of Zionism
Zionism and the Holocaust
General Considerations
Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel
Intifada 2000 And The "Peace Process"
Views Of The Future
Conclusion I For Jewish Readers
Conclusion II

As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational “terrorists” who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes — on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice.

This paper outlines the history of Palestine to show how this process occurred and what a moral solution to the region’s problems should consist of. If you care about the people of the Middle East, Jewish and Arab, you owe it to yourself to read this account of the other side of the historical record.
Introduction

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

Much more here:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
Liberal thy name is hypocrisy. What's new?
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Postby Doodad » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:33 pm

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.


And in 1947 when the mandate ended, the Jewish population was 37%; quite enough to expect their own sovereignty. The Arabs saw otherwise and ended up launching a war of aggression which they lost thereby losing more land than they would have otherwise and which by the rules of war were Israel's to keep given they were the ones attacked.
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Postby erosoplier » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:55 pm

Doodad wrote:
But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.


And in 1947 when the mandate ended, the Jewish population was 37%; quite enough to expect their own sovereignty. The Arabs saw otherwise and ended up launching a war of aggression which they lost thereby losing more land than they would have otherwise and which by the rules of war were Israel's to keep given they were the ones attacked.



Quite a loophole to be exploited, when you think about it. Israel again showed much forsight by being armed to the teeth by the eve of the "1947 Arab war of aggression."
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