Why are environmentalists wishing for the end of the world?

[sfnate]

This thread is becoming quite ironic.

Bring it on.

[barracuda]

Judeo-Christian mythology and western civilization in general have devised countless fables to come to terms with a very simple principle of living on this planet: humans don't run the show. From The Fall to The Flood to the Day after Tomorrow, we are constantly in the process of assigning the inconstancy of the earth to processes we can rope into our sphere of influence. If not God, then fossil fuel, and beyond. Its got to be somewhat humbling for the so-called masters of the universe to look out the window and discover a rainy day just when they've scheduled their commemorative parade, but there it is. People, as such, have been around for about five million years. That's a long time! I see nothing in the most dire forcast which leads me to believe that they are about to disappear.

Common sense tells us that we should not pour burnt smoke and noxious fumes into the air, but we do it anyway. The myth of human control helps us do it. The myth of technology allows us to dump endless pollution into our ocean, because two hundred years of science fiction has convinced us that we can clean it all up when the machines get better at cleaning it all up. The myth of progress allows us to genetically modify our food while decreasing production, because in the future we'll figure it out. We always have! And books and movies say we will!

It is impossible to overwrite these myths, which are so intrinsically bred into our minds through our culture that they are taught to us from the earliest age with no sign of stopping. Two or three thousand years of them! To change our habits means changing our myths, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon! Now excuse me, but I need to drive down to the 7-11 around the corner for a pack of smokes.

[lunarose]

hi 8bit.

"However Im just as sickened at this social Darwin Malthusian
"human beings are a scurge, a disease on the planet, and we need to be wiped out"."

i have deduced from earlier of your posts that you live in the sf bay area, as do i.

sadly, there are myriad examples right in our neighborhood as to why certain people can take away the idea that humans completely fuck the world up for everyone, including other people.

have you ever been to richmond? you know, that great neighborhood where chevron and other refineries and chemical plants (bechtel, anyone?) spew ungodly amounts of crap on the suspecting populace. but hey, they're largely black and poor, so what the heck. the citizens spent years working to get a notification system implemented for spills and leaks so folks can shelter in place, and these days sometimes it even works. actually, it would seem that this is an example where environmentalists worked in order to try and IMPROVE things for poor people, but they still get a rap as being 'elitist' in that crap op.

a few miles from our house is briones park, part of the east bay regional park district. open space, rah rah rah. if you drive towards martinez (and johm muir's house) from our place you can drive up old briones road, park, and then hike up the continuing trail. it is incredible in spring - just packed with native wildflowers - mule's ears, blue and yellow lupine, woodland stars, shooting stars, monkeyflowers, chinese houses, brodiea, owl's clover.

but after about half a mile, it is just mud and grass stubble. because they let cows graze there. overgraze, that is. EBRPD has tons of grazing leases with ranchers all over the parks, completely going against their stated mission of providing safe recreations (people get attacked) and preserving the native species, which are completely obliterated by overgrazing. the ca. water quality board has been trying to take the park district to court over the sediment and bacteria (yep, cow shit) that is getting into the water supply from this overgrazing, but the ranching interests are yanking the park district's chain.

anyone in the bay area should take the time to hike in un-grazed versus grazed parks to see the disaster that over grazing (a human implemented activity) commits on the land. and again, this is for the profit of a small group of people against the rights to enjoyment of the land by the taxpayers and citizens who created the park system. so the environmental depredation is harming people, not just animals.

here's a flyer by greg schneider, who has done a ton of work on this issue:

http://www.rangenet.org/projects/wplgal ... 20HTML.htm

lastly, have you ever driven 580 north to where it intersects 13? that hellhole quarry that's mutilating the hills, causing crap air quality (dust and diesel), noise pollution, etc.? it's hardly hidden. millions of people drive by there ever day.

maybe go outside and take a look around and you'll see why some people get the crazy idea that human's are less than perfect stewards of planet earth, and of other people's interests.

[sfnate]

To change our habits means changing our myths, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon!

Myths tend to be narratives composed of contents from the collective unconscious, and dramatic changes in the prevailing story can occur rapidly if the psychic conditions are right. The formation of the Nazi mythos happened almost overnight--literally--an entire population was rapidly swept up into a resurgent Teutonic story of martial conquest, with horrific global consequences. So I don't think we have as much control over our myths as we'd like to believe. They have a certain organicity about them that escapes the grasp of reason and logic. What we may be witnessing today, with the severe stresses of environmental and social breakdowns on the psychic health of world populations, are the early indications of a great retreat into mythic narratives that were perfectly adapted to earlier times, but will no doubt fail us in the same way that Nazism was doomed to failure. Or not. Other, more compelling and appropriate myths may emerge that have more to do with our current situation and enable us to organize our efforts in a positive, sustainable way. Clearly, the dominant and often competing myths of science and religion are collapsing under the weight of all the accumulated prejudices and biases that have made them too slow to change as events race ahead. A new story is needed, and if we won't ritualistically participate in its formation, it will emerge from our panic and frustration in ways that will probably be mostly negative and reactionary.

[lunarose]

speaking of myths, the myth that environmentalists are 'anti-humanity' is sure a sweet one for big corporations like chevron in richmond, for instance.

"oh, but if we started cleaning up our act we'd lose jobs (right!) and have to spend so much money that we wouldn't be able to donate that 10,00 bucks to the richmond school district for the little kiddies (out of our billions of dollars of profits made on the crap being spewed in richmond's air) - you know, you can't go overboard on the environmentalism because at root it's anti-humanitarian........."

when in truth it's humans taking a big environmental hit. but everyone knows.....

[8bitagent]

hi 8bit.

"However Im just as sickened at this social Darwin Malthusian
"human beings are a scurge, a disease on the planet, and we need to be wiped out"."

i have deduced from earlier of your posts that you live in the sf bay area, as do i.

sadly, there are myriad examples right in our neighborhood as to why certain people can take away the idea that humans completely fuck the world up for everyone, including other people.

have you ever been to richmond? you know, that great neighborhood where chevron and other refineries and chemical plants (bechtel, anyone?) spew ungodly amounts of crap on the suspecting populace. but hey, they're largely black and poor, so what the heck. the citizens spent years working to get a notification system implemented for spills and leaks so folks can shelter in place, and these days sometimes it even works. actually, it would seem that this is an example where environmentalists worked in order to try and IMPROVE things for poor people, but they still get a rap as being 'elitist' in that crap op.

a few miles from our house is briones park, part of the east bay regional park district. open space, rah rah rah. if you drive towards martinez (and johm muir's house) from our place you can drive up old briones road, park, and then hike up the continuing trail. it is incredible in spring - just packed with native wildflowers - mule's ears, blue and yellow lupine, woodland stars, shooting stars, monkeyflowers, chinese houses, brodiea, owl's clover.

but after about half a mile, it is just mud and grass stubble. because they let cows graze there. overgraze, that is. EBRPD has tons of grazing leases with ranchers all over the parks, completely going against their stated mission of providing safe recreations (people get attacked) and preserving the native species, which are completely obliterated by overgrazing. the ca. water quality board has been trying to take the park district to court over the sediment and bacteria (yep, cow shit) that is getting into the water supply from this overgrazing, but the ranching interests are yanking the park district's chain.

anyone in the bay area should take the time to hike in un-grazed versus grazed parks to see the disaster that over grazing (a human implemented activity) commits on the land. and again, this is for the profit of a small group of people against the rights to enjoyment of the land by the taxpayers and citizens who created the park system. so the environmental depredation is harming people, not just animals.

here's a flyer by greg schneider, who has done a ton of work on this issue:

http://www.rangenet.org/projects/wplgal ... 20HTML.htm

lastly, have you ever driven 580 north to where it intersects 13? that hellhole quarry that's mutilating the hills, causing crap air quality (dust and diesel), noise pollution, etc.? it's hardly hidden. millions of people drive by there ever day.

maybe go outside and take a look around and you'll see why some people get the crazy idea that human's are less than perfect stewards of planet earth, and of other people's interests.

That whole area of Hercules, Pinole, Richmond up through Oakland and surrounding areas has long been a classic example of corporate toxicity run amok. (Sadly the people of Richmond are also bogged down by drug gang chaos) Un-necessary quarrying, mountain dynamiting, unregulated factory pollution, urban sprawl leading to mud slides, and all the things you mention are many of the things Ive only become more aware of in the last few years...and am sad to see it continue.

Im also not happy with all this cow ranching, not merely because Im a vegetarian and feel bad for the people whose whole towns smell like shit...
but because I feel that cow ranching is also bad for the enviroment.

[lunarose]

hi 8bit.

"Im also not happy with all this cow ranching, not merely because Im a vegetarian and feel bad for the people whose whole towns smell like shit...
but because I feel that cow ranching is also bad for the enviroment."

yeah, it's like a quadruple whammy of badness. and there's some extreme examples of how bad it can get right close to home.

[sfnate]

speaking of myths, the myth that environmentalists are 'anti-humanity' is sure a sweet one for big corporations like chevron in richmond, for instance.

It's certainly a triumph of late capitalism that the corporations have been able to effectively and almost completely control our perception of these problems, so that we are willing to sacrifice everything to them--health, environment, culture--in the name of sustaining the economic engines that are driving us to the brink of extinction. But what else can we expect when so much money is spent to find the ways in which we can be manipulated into working against our own interests? These are smart people, cynical people, who work tirelessly to ensure that we have as little control over our lives as possible. If this sounds exaggerated, I would only say the results speak for themselves: everywhere you look--if you bother--you can see things beginning to crumble into terminal decline even as the personal coffers of the super wealthy are daily increased in the name of that other holy myth, free market capitalism. Of course, these types of analysis are routinely dismissed as the demented rhetoric of a class warfare, but I really don't think the common folk are going to remain satisfied with the levels of inequity that exist today, especially when the elites begin lecturing them that they are wasteful and lazy (see Gordon Brown's recent comments, for example) and should shoulder up to the sacrifices that will be required in the days ahead. Meanwhile, the leaders at the G8 are eating eight course banquets and congratulating themselves for being, well, so deserving of their exalted status.

[8bitagent]

speaking of myths, the myth that environmentalists are 'anti-humanity' is sure a sweet one for big corporations like chevron in richmond, for instance.

"oh, but if we started cleaning up our act we'd lose jobs (right!) and have to spend so much money that we wouldn't be able to donate that 10,00 bucks to the richmond school district for the little kiddies (out of our billions of dollars of profits made on the crap being spewed in richmond's air) - you know, you can't go overboard on the environmentalism because at root it's anti-humanitarian........."

when in truth it's humans taking a big environmental hit. but everyone knows.....

How come then, "conservation" and environmental groups that are clearly of the Rockefeller/Carnegie/etc foundation stripe...seem to always ignore and look the other way when it comes to the real environmental disasters going on(say, toxic nerve gas dumping in waterstreams by the US army, etc)

The mid 90's UN plan on "sustainable bio-diversity" I find particularly disturbing, where "in the interests in saving the environment", they have graphs and maps of how people will be herded into tightly controlled areas of living.

[lunarose]

hi 8bit.

"How come then, "conservation" and environmental groups that are clearly of the Rockefeller/Carnegie/etc foundation stripe....."

i think you answered your own question. those groups have a particular agenda and are trying to get it implemented by using 'environmental concerns' as a cover story. just because a group says they are 'environmentalists' or 'compassionate conservatives' doesn't mean they are or that they have the integrity to stand up for their beliefs when the you know what hits the fan.

as for the herding people into camps, there are certain groups that have been trying to figure out how to get that done for the last century (look at rex84) using all type of excuses - racial purity, national security, now environmental concerns. from what i've learned about it, it almost seems like they just want to do this, and are trying to come up with different reasons that will be thought acceptable by the population. but i don't know that for a fact. i find it particularly alarming as well, and i think those type of plans should be brought to public attention and stopped.

i also wouldn't be surprised if there are particular individuals who are environmentalists and who have become convinced that extreme measures are necessary and so go along with these wacko schemes. there you have different interests coming together because they see their interest served by a common goal.

but it's definitely a swampy area, with all type of skeevy agendas and people and groups presenting themselves one way while behaving the opposite. it's depressing and frustrating, especially for people who are truly concerned about making the planet a healthy place for all of us. i have found that it seems that a lot of local groups are doing good work and have sincere memberships.

(it's 108 here, so i'm going to go soak in a cool tub and may be there awhile....)

[sfnate]

How come then, "conservation" and environmental groups that are clearly of the Rockefeller/Carnegie/etc foundation stripe...seem to always ignore and look the other way when it comes to the real environmental disasters going on(say, toxic nerve gas dumping in waterstreams by the US army, etc)

Well, the answer is pretty obvious, really: they are linked through privilege and status and mutual interests to these other offending groups. When the environmental movement became a business, and started forming alliances with corporations and foundations, and built up a huge bureaucracy, that was the end of any impartiality and idealism that may have motivated the early volunteers. "Green" has been co-opted and assimilated, in the very same way the movements of the 60s were commodified and turned into fashion statements or "lifestyle" choices.

Eventually and inevitably, whenever a group becomes very good at what it does, somebody will figure out that there's money to be made, and when that happens, the light and inspiration just vanishes into a careerist mentality that trudges along dutifully to the drumming of its corporate masters.

[lunarose]

(just bumped up to 109)

[slimmouse]

heres a couple of quick solutions from me, the simpleton.

firstly, stop blowing each other up

Secondly, get these people who know how light and gravity interact, and have created machines that utilise this technology, to come clean.

In order to do both of the above of course, we need to hug the 'reptillians'. They keep insisting that we need to fight each other, and that Oil is the only fuel of choice, and that we are overpopulating the planet, and that we cant feed everyone... .. and .. all that jazz.

I guess they need love like the rest of us.

[orz]

By Rebecca Onion

whut?

[8bitagent]

but it's definitely a swampy area, with all type of skeevy agendas and people and groups presenting themselves one way while behaving the opposite. it's depressing and frustrating, especially for people who are truly concerned about making the planet a healthy place for all of us. i have found that it seems that a lot of local groups are doing good work and have sincere memberships.

(it's 108 here, so i'm going to go soak in a cool tub and may be there awhile....)

I agree 100%. I was happy to see one of America's top billionare oil tycoons now committed to wind power.