The Greenbaum Speech

[American Dream]

lightningBugout wrote:

AD. Funny you'd mention it, but what do do you make of deliverance ministries (ie Good Shepherd).

I can not claim to be an expert in these matters, but my impression is that deliverance ministries carry a lot of extra baggage. By this I mean the values and world-view of a certain type of Christian Fundamentalist. I do not buy-into much of what is attached to these values, though I am all for good people, no matter what they call themselves.

As to the techniques of deliverance ministries, I think they include a common motif of banishing unwanted alters "to Hell". While this may actually work, sometimes and for some people, it is not the sort of thing I would generally recommend...

[kurish]

null

[Free]

Hi. This is my first post to the general discussion board although I've been lurking around R.I off and on for years.

For those of you who weren't around these topics in the late 80's - early 90's i.e. pre-FMSF - it was a different world. I was in NYC at the time. They were heady, groundswell times...outrage over incest and child sexual abuse growing, talk shows like Sally Jesse Raphael, Oprah and Geraldo had lots of survivor guests even ritual abuse survivors. The studio audiences were angry about child abuse and very supportive. Geraldo made on air raids into porn shops to uncover child porn- and was treated as a hero.

There were at least 10 well attended Survivors of Incest Anon meetings in New York City. On Sundays there was one called "Multiple Personalities". The meeting was so big that it had to split up into 5 or 6 sub-groups(very apropos given the subject). There was lots of support in the therapeutic community and a feeling of excitement - that we were on to something that could heal us and the world at the same time. Many survivors were creative and there were "Voices Against Violence" concerts/poetry readings and numerous plays. The movement was really picking up steam and there was an atmosphere of creativity, love and support...

The first sign of trouble that I remember was at the monthly International Society for the Study of Multiple Personality Disorder (now ISSD). That meeting had a different speaker each month (usually a prominent therapist but sometimes a survivor) and was so well attended that they had to have it in a small auditorium at Columbia University.

The speaker that month was Dr. Frank Putnam, who had written a scholarly research book on MPD. We were all quite naive at the time and probably thought nothing of his ties to Bethesda Research Facility and government connections. During his talk he began to dis Bennett Braun and possibly Hammond (I definitely remember him mentioning Braun), and how Braun thought that he had cracked some programming code that used Alpha, Beta, Delta etc and that this was proof that he was losing his mind. At that point an audience member challenged him and demanded to hear more about this type of programming, saying that she believed she might have been subjected to it. He tried to shut her down but another audience member stood up to defend her.

At this point Putnam lost his temper and - I'm not kidding - railed from the podium "You think you know it all, but not for long. We're mounting a campaign for the media that's going to blow you out of the water." Blow you out of the water- exact words.

At that point I and probably most everyone else was stunned and didn't know quite what to make of his angry threat....but within a few months we couldn't help but know - False Memory Syndrome "experts" were all over the media, the talk shows wouldn't tackle child sex abuse in a sympathetic way anymore ...

It's amazing how much influence the media has in our society because this attack really hurt the movement and hurt so many people who weren't strong enough to persist in their healing in a hostile environment.

Anyway...this pre-FSMF environment was the one that The Greenbaum Speech was given in. Before the attacks and malicious suing of therapists, when, we naively thought that good intentions were enough.

Over 15 years have passed since then, and I for one am hoping that we're on the verge of another groundswell of interest and support- you can't hold down the truth forever!

[sw]

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[Project Willow]

The Greenbaum Speech is dated 1992, same year that the Franklin Coverup is listed as coming out, in paperback at least. I understand that Mark Phillips has boasted that he is the origin of the "Monarch" moniker, though this means little, as he is such a bullshit artist. Also, I understand that Ron Patton, who wrote the Project Monarch article that has seen wide play on the Internet, now considers the name Monarch to be disinformational.

I'm not questioning that trauma-based mind control exists- just a government program by the name "Monarch"...

Precisely AD, that's what I meant. I consider "Monarch" as a project name to be suspect at this point, (not to mention the lore surrounding it, tattoos, etc.) and so I wondered what Hammond's source was.

First of all, thanks for the information in your post, Project Willow. I've seen that Mengele page previously, however, and it presents absolutely no support of its claims. No sources, no names, no context, no additional information to allow any kind of verification. (Not to mention that for such a notorious criminal, he sure got around a lot.) As such, its value is extremely low in my opinion.

Understood and understandable Kurish. I don't look at the material with same eye however, as I know the author, am aware of how she got her material, and have read her book which is meticulously researched and sourced. It's too bad that she didn't source the non-survivor material on that page.

Welcome to Free and hi SW, hope you are well.

[hava1]

Don't have much to add, except that strategically, again, the mention of Mengele is sometimes shooting your own foot. It took me several years to open up to the idea of Mengele etc., and I am too open minded for conspiracies. Others, it might just throw off forever. so...its good to think about it that way as well.

As for the term monarch, in my intuitive grasp, there was some heavy symbolism with the Moth butterfly, which I think is the same one. The programming I experienced was very much around these butterflies. So i don't know how that fits, or not, with the name, but maybe there was some indirect connection. Plus the duality monarch/slave plays diabolically well with the programming of mk slaves.

I second the wish to attend one of those conferences, but no money yet.
if at some point international survivors are invited, i'll be happy to sign the list of applicants.

[sw]

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[OP ED]

This isn't normally the type of discussion I become deeply involved in, as the subject matter, at least when it doesn't directly involve cults I'm familiar with, is somewhat outside my general field of studies.

That said, fwiw, my personal Cicadas tell me that not to trust the Cassiopaean's daemons.

[words to wise being sufficient, as such, that is all]

[compared2what?]

I also instinctively went on alert when reading it, though not because it was on the Cass. site, since I believe I've read it elsewhere. The reasons are minuscule, but fwiw, they are:

(1) He makes a reference, very early, to not videotaping his sessions, stating that it feels like using them, and he feels they've been used enough, or words to that effect.

That struck me as protest-too-much. I mean, who was asking for video? It's kind of a bizarre consideration in the context of a therapist addressing his peers, imo. To me, it would be a savage violation of confidentiality to show videos of the people you're treating in public without permission. Though I guess that if both you and they thought it was justified, you could ask them to sign a release. But absent an expectation of videos, why bring it up at all?

(2) He refers to Allan Dulles without identifying him, or explaining who he is. And he's not exactly a household name to the point that you can take it for granted that all people interested in the use of hypnotherapy in connection with abuse and MPS would know it. Which strongly suggests that this group of people already subscribed to the basic outlines of a particular narrative that I doubt ever family therapist in America subscribes to; in short -- it's not something that suggests impartial professionalism on the part of the speaker or the audience. Which doesn't make it wrong -- it just makes it what it is.

(3) To me, the website of The American Society of Clinical Hypnosis looks credible in some ways, but mildly suspect in others. Mostly because it's kind of light on the informative explanation of the clinical advantages of hypnosis, and heavy on the vague suggestion that it's a fast-growing field for which becoming board-certified is a significant professional asset, which you can do by paying to complete X number of hours of training with various institutions and individuals who are already members of the society.

That's not unreasonable on a prima facie basis, but it meets the minimum sensors-on threshold for suspicion well enough that if I were considering becoming certified, I'd be on the look-out for signs of recruitment or an MLM-type arrangement. I don't know if it's clear what I mean. Let me know if it isn't. But it reminded me a little of life-coach training courses, which are all about how great a need for life coaches there is, and how many clients you'll have, and how incredibly happy you'll be that you made the career-switch, etcetera, when -- as far as I can tell -- the market demand for life coaching is close to non-existent in reality. So I'd be on the look-out for whether it was, in part, a much less extreme version of that in some way.

But I have a suspicious mind, I have to admit.

[mentalgongfu2]

But it reminded me a little of life-coach training courses, which are all about how great a need for life coaches there is, and how many clients you'll have, and how incredibly happy you'll be that you made the career-switch, etcetera, when -- as far as I can tell -- the market demand for life coaching is close to non-existent in reality. So I'd be on the look-out for whether it was, in part, a much less extreme version of that in some way.

c2w, will you be my life coach? You'll be incredibly happy you made the career switch

(just a little levity. carry on)

[barracuda]

Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity between these kinds of programming and those people who claim that they've been abducted by spaceships and have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don't think that they've reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering is there any sort of relationship between this and that?

Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from others really. I've not dealt with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I know and trust and respect who I've informed about all this a couple of years ago and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims who have been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy all their credibility. If somebody's coming in and reporting abduction by a flying saucer who's going to believe them on anything else in the future? Also as a kind of thing that can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as that."

I have to say the overlap here is fascinating, especially in light of the fact that we have both MC and abduction survivors on this forum, and that ritual abuse/MC and abduction accounts really started to bubble up in a similar time period, ie, early- to mid-eighties.

[lightningBugout]

Can't say much (internet connection is faltering) but I am ever, ever so glad to see this topic still generating real discussion. Details still foggy but can we all agree to NOT lose the core problem of TBMC along with the bathwater. Thanks, LBO.

[Free]

Hammond says something at the beginning of the "Greenbaum Speech" that I think is incredibly important to anyone trying to heal from Trauma-Based Mind Control:

"I want to spend some time talking about something I think has been completely neglected in the field of dissociative disorder, and that's talking about methods of profound calming for the autonomic hyper-arousal that's been conditioned into these patients."

By putting ongoing energy into overall relaxing, soothing and de-stressing and by going through memories slowly and in small manageable pieces while continually bringing down your anxiety level, it's possible to completely unpack the log jam of fear, horror, revulsion, grief, anger, pain etc. that surrounds the traumatic memory in the body/mind.

When I did this around certain memories I found that they had tried to make me believe (through hypnotic suggestion, films, etc) that instead of a run of the mill sociopathic doctor, scientist or military person conducting a torture session or "op", it was a notorious public figure.

Think about it. It's an ingenious way to hide their identities while discrediting our testimony.

Now this is not to say that Joseph Mengele or Henry Kissinger (to name two that probably were used to this end) weren't involved in MK-Ultra. The Nazis kept meticulous records and it would be hard to believe that Mengele would abandon the research project that he had started in the camps. Henry Kissinger also seems like a prime candidate for being a mc perpetrator. But I think we need to think long and hard about the focus on public figures that a few (now discredited) survivors used to derail a mind control survivor movement before it even began.

[Project Willow]

But I think we need to think long and hard about the focus on public figures that a few (now discredited) survivors used to derail a mind control survivor movement before it even began.

It doesn't need to be the focus, and perhaps need not be mentioned at all until there is greater acceptance of the general scenario of MC. Mengele is a different issue than the other public figures however, as we aren't talking about just a few survivors, but (in the least) dozens who could describe any number of physical characteristics. Most importantly, I wouldn't want to shut survivors down, or invalidate those who do recognize him.

As for the others, some involvement by high ranking politicians should be expected.

[Free]

Project Willow wrote:

It doesn't need to be the focus, and perhaps need not be mentioned at all until there is greater acceptance of the general scenario of MC. Mengele is a different issue than the other public figures however, as we aren't talking about just a few survivors, but (in the least) dozens who could describe any number of physical characteristics. Most importantly, I wouldn't want to shut survivors down, or invalidate those who do recognize him.

As for the others, some involvement by high ranking politicians should be expected.

I certainly agree with you PW, that some public figures and politicians are involved. The point I wanted to make was about screen memories and the amount of sophistication and cunning employed to scramble our recollections of what happened, especially at high levels. I'm not saying that Mengele or anyone else was or wasn't involved or that anyone's memories are or aren't accurate. But often during visits to sensitive locations, the mind-controlled subject is constantly accompanied by an attendant with a doctor's bag full of drugs and syringes who is there solely to help implant and orchestrate screen memories.

Credible survivors have reported staged or filmed scenarios of: satanic rituals, aliens/ufos, reptilian shape-shifting, war scenes and violence, etc. I'd like to add to the list and call attention to the "phony famous perp trick." After "softening" someone with drugs and violence, how difficult is it to employ a TV screen, projections, hypnotic suggestion, etc to make the victim believe that a well-known person is conducting the programming (or whatever sick BS is going on)?

I guess the main point I want to make is: the perps really wanted what they're doing to remain secret. If we want to get past the smoke and mirrors we need to take the "profound calming" that C. Hammond suggests to heart, especially when doing memory work.


Something related to this that I'd be interested in discussing:

As far as a survivor movement goes, the first books published of survivor accounts to have decent circulation were 'Trance Formation of America" by Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips and "Thanks for the Memories" by Brice Taylor. In these books, the focus on celebrities and politicians was so pervasive that it all but obscured the overall message of human rights violations through mind control and led readers into a circular blind alley of S & M sex and celebrity obsession.

Any thoughts on this and/or ways to undo the damage that may have been done to the survivor movement?