AlicetheKurious wrote:This Ergenekon sort of reminds me of Gladio and P2.
Definitely. Turkey's a very interesting case.
From an earlier thread:
I find it fascinating how in Turkey, the existence of an unrepresentative criminal fascist power behind the public state, called the "Deep State," is a matter of serious public discourse - by public officials, even - whereas in the US, treatment of the American Deep State is reviled as "conspiracy theory."
Turkey’s “Deep State” Surfaces in Former President’s Words, Deeds in Kurdish Town
Washington Report, January/February 2006
When a former president and seven-time prime minister of Turkey says that the country has not one state but two, many naturally sit up and take notice.
When he says this a few days after nationwide riots, sparked by an alleged plot by one of those states to murder a long list of its opponents, it becomes clear that in Turkey, the nature of the state is no abstract political discussion.
Indeed, with two dead and the rioting spreading from the Iranian border to districts of Istanbul, the remarks by Suleyman Demirel made in a mid-November interview with NTV television had a certain urgency to them as well.
“It is fundamental principle that there is one state,” Demirel noted—but added, however, “In our country there are two.”
Demirel, who was president of Turkey from 1994 to 1999, led a string of governments in the 1970s, ‘80s and ‘90s, including one brought to an abrupt end in 1980 by a military coup.
“There is one deep state and one other state,” he elaborated. “The state that should be real is the spare one, the one that should be spare is the real one.”
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The Turkish deep state
Monday, January 29, 2007
A statement by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan admitting the existence of a “deep state” in Turkey will likely create a new discussion on one of the oldest taboos in this country. Erdoğan is not the first prominent politician to publicly admit the existence of the “deep state.” Indeed, back in 1974 the prime minister of the time, Bülent Ecevit, had complained about the existence of a “deep state” that he described as a “counter guerrilla” force.
Former presidents Kenan Evren, the leader of the 1980 military coup, and Süleyman Demirel as well admitted the existence of a “deep state” and even Evren, the strongest of men in the three-year military administration period after the coup, admitted his inability to annihilate it though he worked hard to that end. But, what is that “deep state” which according to Erdoğan has been in existence in this country ever since the Ottoman times and “indeed is something derived from the tradition” and was so dangerous that “we have to succeed in minimizing, and if possible, obliterating it?”
Who is the “deep state”?: Is it the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK)? Or, is it the intelligence apparatus of the country? Is it the academia? Or, is it the judiciary? Perhaps, it is the strong bureaucracy of the country?
It could be argued that the “deep state” has no structural form, and is not any of the above mentioned, but is at the same time composed of all of them and becomes active when various segments of power and elements of the state apparatus start independently developing a sense of fear that the Turkish state is faced with an existential threat. Depending on the nature of the threat, the leading element of the “deep state” for that particular moment might be any of the composing elements, but in any eventuality has the full support of the military.
According to the late Ecevit, the “counter guerrilla” force, or the “special forces” was a military establishment outside the chain of command of the TSK. Evren first learned of the existence of a “special force” from Ecevit and as the top commander of the country wanted to get rid of that establishment, but could not succeed. From what Evren said on the issue, we can reach the conclusion that whatever that “deep state” organization is, it at least has some military connection, but is so strong and independent that even the top commander of the country cannot obliterate it.
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Bombing throws spotlight on Turkey
November 20, 2005
A bombing allegedly carried out by members of the security services has shone a spotlight on Turkey's shadowy "deep state" and raised questions as to whether the country's EU-inspired liberal reforms have really tamed it.
The "deep state" is made up of elements from the military, security and judicial establishments wedded to a fiercely nationalist, statist ideology who, if need be, are ready to block or even oust a government that does not share their vision.
"They believe they act on behalf of the nation and the state and so may sometimes be willing to ignore the law," Semih Idiz, a commentator for CNN-Turk and a TDN columnist, told Reuters.
Ankara began its European Union entry talks last month after a flurry of reforms that included greater civilian control of the armed forces after four military coups in 40 years. In their last intervention in 1997, the generals ousted an Islamist government deemed a threat to Turkey's secularism.
The detention of three members of the security services after the Nov. 9 bombing of a bookshop in the town of Şemdinli in Turkey's troubled Southeast reawakened suspicions that the "deep state" is still alive and well. When prosecutors then freed two of the men, and Gen. Yaşar Büyükanıt, the head of Turkey's land forces, described one of them as "a good soldier," the suspicions deepened.
"There are two states (in Turkey)," former President Süleyman Demirel told NTV, commenting on the bombing and making clear he believed Turkey had not changed very much. "There is the state and there is the deep state. ... When a small difficulty occurs, the civilian state steps back and the deep state becomes the generator (of decisions)."
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Turkey killer video sparks fears of state collusion
Feb 4 2007
ANKARA, Feb 4 (Reuters) - Video footage of a self-confessed murderer striking a heroic pose alongside security force members after his arrest for the killing of a Turkish Armenian editor has revived fears in Turkey of a shadowy state within a state.
Above Ogun Samast's head are the words of modern Turkey's revered founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk -- "The land of the fatherland is sacred. It cannot be abandoned to its fate".
Turkey has launched a probe into how and why the film was taken after Samast's detention for the suspected murder of Hrant Dink, a prominent journalist hated by nationalists for urging Turkey to come to terms with mass killings of Armenians in 1915.
On Friday, four police were dismissed and four paramilitary gendarmes transferred, state news agency Anatolian reported.
Suspicions of possible collusion between Samast, seven others charged over the murder and the security forces had already surfaced before the video scandal, when it emerged that authorities had repeatedly ignored warnings that ultra-nationalists planned to kill the journalist.
Even Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan has speculated openly about the possible involvement of a "deep state" in the murder, though some analysts say this decades-old concept may be just a convenient fiction to cover up official incompetence or neglect.
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