Chinese grad student decapitated by knife at Virginia Tech

[OP ED]

"Chance favors the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur

Be prepared.

What are you proposing we prepare for and how do you suggesting preparing for it? Carry our own pepper shaker?

see my previous post.

(the ole west has less crime per capita than the ole east)

[Joe Hillshoist]

"Chance favors the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur

Be prepared.

What are you proposing we prepare for and how do you suggesting preparing for it? Carry our own pepper shaker?

Being prepared is a state of mind. If the situation demands it anything can be a weapon. I belted someone with a bong once. It was a spring valley so it dropped them like a sack of potatoes. I was at a friends having a smoke and two fuckwits decided to try a home invasion to flog his weed. I chucked the bong at his mate and in the time the guy ducked to dodge it, and the dirty water, the other two people smoking with us had jumped him.

Most people don't carry guns in Australia. Which was lucky for all of us probably, but less so for them. But they were still alive the next day. We all were.

Being prepared is a state of mind. Part of it probably has to do with training your instinctive self, the biosurvival flight or fight circuits in your brain. Martial artists, some sportspeople, cops, soldiers, fire fighters, paramedics and a whole bunch of others train specifically to attune those circuits so that when the situation happens there are templates for action ready to go.

Most people don't tho, and when confronted with a situation that is dangerous they kind of shut down cos they don't know what response to use. Someone who would be OK in a situation of violence might not know how to react if they come across a car accident for example, cos they have no idea what the first response is.

Any stories about bongs and stuff told by me above are not true and are purely for illustrative purposes.

[Nordic]

Has this been in the mainstream media? I haven't seen anything about it on Yahoo or anything like that. I have seen the story of the one in Belgium.

Seems like one is cancelling the other out somehow.

[pepsified thinker]

'heard an interview a long while ago--so details are fuzzy--with a survivor of a knife attack (in a cafe in New Hampshire or Vermont or some such place). The person being interviewed had been asked by many friends, etc since the attack, 'Why didn't you just [run, grab the knife, etc. etc.]' and explained that despite popular belief, knife attacks are not somehow easily countered; a big knife (a weapon knife especially vs. a tool knife?) wielded by an unhesitant, aggressive person is no small thing.

I'm guessing there are discussions about this very matter going on in Belgium now.

About the 'herd' reaction, and about reactions to sudden life-threatening situations, I read this last summer and meant to go back to it.



here's the author's site: http://www.amandaripley.com/

She writes for TIME, and gives the orthodox version of 9-11 etc., and the subject of disaster prep. and response seems sort of frought with potential for psyops-ish manipulation, but all that aside, the book's rich in terms of brain-based explanations of how people respond in moments of crisis.

Also just a riveting read of one after another brush with danger and 'how I survived' stories.

(and I'd be interested in anyone's take on it, given the author's background and the type of subject matter. I'm wondering if anyone sees something it that's strikes them as definitely propagating officially useful take on one thing or another, or if anyone know something about the author, A. Ripley.)

[treeboy]

I'd like to think that, if I witnessed someone committing the type of atrocity that happened in Virginia Tech, I would intervene. But I've never been in that situation, so I don't really know.

Maybe training yourself to fight or arming yourself are effective ways to prepare for such occurrences. It seems only logical that those two things would increase your chances of being able to intervene effectively, especially if you combine the two.

What puzzles me really is how one would prepare to defend their self against being the victim of the attack. I understand that training yourself to fight may help you to perceive subtle clues that could indicate that you are in danger. There are probably other ways to develop those abilities as well.

This attack has already been compared to the murder of Tim McLean on the Greyhound bus in Canada. Other than the obvious decapitation aspect, another commonality between the two is the seeming randomness of the violence. We don't really have a lot of information about the recent attack at Virginia Tech, but from what is described of the murder of Tim McLean, it sounds as if there is really no way he could have anticipated what was about to happen to him.

I'm sure some will say that you have to use your instincts to recognize dangerous people and be prepared to defend yourself. This is true. To some degree, I believe everyone does this. Some people are probably better at it than others.

But I think the honest truth is that nobody's instinct is good enough to prevent every possible instance of random, seemingly unmotivated absurd violence. The honest truth is that, ultimately, this could happen to any one. And that is what makes it so scary.

[barracuda]

despite popular belief, knife attacks are not somehow easily countered; a big knife (a weapon knife especially vs. a tool knife?) wielded by an unhesitant, aggressive person is no small thing.

FWIW, a good rule of thumb in emergency confrontations is that charging an individual who has you or someone else under the gun while you are personally unarmed has a decent chance of success (especially if you are close to the assailant), but to attempt a similar tactic when facing a knife wielder is unadvised. The gun can be pushed out of the way, and attacked from the side, or grabbed, but your hands are too easy of a target for the knife. A good example of this is to be found in the autopsy report of Ronald Goldman. Goldman, a strapping 34 year-old at the peak of physical condition apparently bravely fought off his attacker(s?) but sustained heavy damage to his arms and hands, and eventually, of course, was killed.

In the OP incident, I can only say that one good cut across the victim's neck and any subsequent life-saving attempts on the part of the onlookers would have been pointless, and dangerous. Though to sit and watch... I don't know, but I think I would have at least been throwing glass tumblers and katsup bottles as hard as I could at the assailant's head, rather than doing nothing. It's often hard to say what one would do in such a scenario.

[pepsified thinker]

Yeah-not that I know much about this, but...

I think a lot would depend on the layout of the cafe: if you have a wide-open space and feel you could maneuver to evade or escape a knife-armed assailant, that's one thing, but if he's next to the door and the overall space is rather confined, that'd inhibit bystanders' actions.

Also, if you're with someone you feel a need to shield/protect, that'd be a part of the mental equation: could be you'd act to protect them, could be you'd stay by them and shield them and/or not want to drawn attention to them.

But as I write this, I'm also wondering (not a pleasant thought here) if the victim had been a young, blond European-looking woman (or someone else bystanders identified with) would things have been different?

Sorry to ask that. It's not a kind thought--IF that's relevant consideration (and how could we ever know one way or another?), I'm guessing things happened quickly and no one was acting/reacting on a conscious basis. Also, 'don't know how the victim was perceived, or who the bystanders were, or were they near or far from the attack--lotta unknowns.

--so take with a grain of salt.

[Avalon]

Just as an aside, I'd like to point out that it's likely that most people don't actually have any experience with sharp knives. I've cooked at a number of peoples' houses (not professionally, just socially), and I find that most people don't ever sharpen their knifes, and they are dull as hell.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Yeah good point Avalon.

When I was a kid, I used to carry a knife. Tho I never used it, and at one point realised that if I ever pulled it I would probably find it being used on me. So I stopped carrying it.

Maybe training yourself to fight or arming yourself are effective ways to prepare for such occurrences. It seems only logical that those two things would increase your chances of being able to intervene effectively, especially if you combine the two.

If you don't train you will probably have little chance against someone wielding a knife who knows what to do, maybe hit them with a chair or barstool. Or a poolcue, that should keep them at a distance. Carrying a weapon means you expect trouble, training to fight eventually leads to a state of mind where you try to avoid fights. Thats just my opinion tho. There are parts of the world where I'd carry a weapon for sure. But I'd train to use that too.

Luck is important too.

But as I write this, I'm also wondering (not a pleasant thought here) if the victim had been a young, blond European-looking woman (or someone else bystanders identified with) would things have been different?

I really doubt it actually. That sort of response happens on a different level to the one racism happens on, I reckon.

[Nordic]

More murderous Virginia Tech high weirdness.

A bit of a NASA connection.

Bright college teens held in death of 'awesome little girl'

BLACKSBURG, Va. — Two Virginia Tech students who had bright futures appeared before a judge Monday in the death of a seventh-grade girl who was active on social media and apparently climbed out her bedroom window.

Nicole Madison Lovell, 13, was described as “an awesome little girl” who had a tough life — she survived a liver transplant as a youngster and suffered from bullying at middle school and online, her mother said.

Police found her body on Saturday near Low Gap in Surry County, about two hours drive from the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va., four days after she disappeared. David Eisenhauer, 18, is charged with her kidnapping and first-degree murder. Natalie Keepers, 19, is charged with improper disposal of a body and accessory after the fact in the commission of a felony.

The Surry County Sheriff’s Office declined to comment on the case, referring a Winston-Salem Journal reporter to Blacksburg police.

Police in Blacksburg said they have evidence showing Eisenhauer knew the girl before she disappeared, but have not released any details about what led up to her death.

“Eisenhauer used this relationship to his advantage to abduct the 13-year-old and then kill her. Keepers helped Eisenhauer dispose of Nicole’s body,” a police statement said.

Eisenhauer’s hearing happened ahead of schedule and out of sight of reporters on Monday. Keepers appeared later, handcuffed and shackled in an orange jumpsuit. She told Judge Robert Viar Jr. she understands the charges. Both have lawyers; neither one commented.

The arrests of the engineering majors shocked people who knew them in high school, where they lived nearby each other in Maryland. Neither had prior criminal records, police said.

“We had no reason to think he would be unsuccessful in his goals, because he was very focused,” said Principal James LeMon at Wilde Lake High School, where Eisenhauer graduated last year.

Eisenhauer, named Boys Indoor Track Performer of the Year by The Baltimore Sun last March, chose Virginia Tech to pursue engineering while competing with the Hokies’ top college runners, LeMon said.

Keepers interned at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, led science experiments at her church’s Bible school and hoped to build a future in aerospace or ocean engineering, her online resume said.

“It’s just very, very surprising,” said her principal, Marcia Leonard.

Nicole’s family said they discovered Wednesday morning that she had apparently blocked her bedroom door with furniture and climbed out a window overnight.

Eisenhauer was arrested Saturday, hours before Nicole’s remains were found. Blacksburg police Chief Anthony Wilson told The Roanoke Times that Eisenhauer did not provide information that led to the body.

State police divers have been searching a pond on campus, but authorities would not say what they were looking for.

Nicole was just 5 years old when she survived a liver transplant, MRSA (a drug-resistant bacterial infection) and lymphoma, her mother, Tammy Weeks, told The Washington Post.

“God got her through all that, and she fought through all that, and he took her life,” Weeks said.

Nicole didn’t like going to school because girls called her fat and talked about her transplant scars. “It got so bad I wouldn’t send her,” Weeks said, but the bullying continued on social media.

Nicole’s classmates were grieving Monday at Blacksburg Middle School, where 10 counselors were brought in to support them, Montgomery County schools spokeswoman Brenda Drake said.

Drake said privacy laws prevent her from commenting on Nicole’s experience, but she said the school has anti-bullying programs.

Davy Draper, a close family friend, called Nicole an energetic and outspoken girl who got along with everyone.

“She was an awesome little girl. She was an angel here on Earth, and she’s an angel now,” Draper said Sunday.

A number listed for Eisenhauer’s parents in Columbia, Md., rang busy. A message left at Keepers’ home in Laurel, Md., was not returned.

[brekin]

Yes, it hard to know how others and oneself would react in such an event. I often think of this shooting where it seemed the moment was so unexpected and carried out so routinly that one could be almost hypnotized by what happens, and then what happens next, and then what happens next, and then what happens next, until the disgruntled coworker is standing in front of you.

2010 University of Alabama in Huntsville shooting

The Shelby Center for Science and Technology at UAHuntsville.
The day of the shooting, Bishop taught her anatomy and neurosciences class. According to a student in Bishop's class, she "seemed perfectly normal" during the lecture.[2]

She attended a biology department faculty meeting in Room 369 on the third floor of the Shelby Center for Science and Technology, which houses the UAH Biology and Mathematics departments.[3][4] According to witnesses, 12 or 13 people attended the meeting, which was described as "an ordinary faculty meeting."[3][5] Bishop's behavior was also described as "normal" just prior to the shooting.[6]

She sat quietly at the meeting for 30 or 40 minutes, before pulling out a 9 mm handgun "just before" 4:00 p.m. CST, according to a faculty member.[3] Joseph Ng, an associate professor who witnessed the attack, said: "[She] got up suddenly, took out a gun and started shooting at each one of us. She started with the one closest to her, and went down the row shooting her targets in the head."[5] According to another survivor, Debra Moriarity, dean of the university's graduate program and a professor of biochemistry, "This wasn't random shooting around the room; this was execution style."[7] Those who were shot were on one side of the oval table used during the meeting, and the five on the other side, including Ng, dropped to the floor.[5]

After Bishop had fired several rounds, Moriarity said that Bishop pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger, but heard only a "click,"[7] as her gun "either jammed or ran out of ammunition."[8] She described Bishop as initially appearing "angry," and then following the apparent weapon malfunction, "perplexed."[7] Ng said Moriarity attempted to stop Bishop[5][8] by approaching her and asking her to stop, and helped the other survivors push Bishop from the room and block the door.[5] Ng said "Moriarity was probably the one that saved our lives. She was the one that initiated the rush."[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Univ ... e_shooting