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JackRiddler wrote:.
Be nice to Pan.
No Guantanamo and continuing the massacre in Afghanistan and Pakistan is progress over keeping Guantanamo and continuing the massacre in Afghanistan and Paksitan as planned. It's a fucked up calculus - on the other hand, it's not like our opinions of it, whether we're happier in the one state than in the other, affects anything at all.
The next step is for Pakistan to speak up and demand an end to these strikes, bring their complaint to the rest of the world. My feeling is that they can get traction and this will be slightly likelier to work with Obama than was the case on Bush. The rest of the world is ready to see an end to the Pakistan-Afghanistan actions, I believe.
It's fucked. Basically, you need to see those 1.8 million people and many more return to the streets of Washington, this time to stay and shut down traffic until the wars are done. That task is the same now as it was before, except before it was less likely to cause a policy change. Yeah, I really believe that. It's up to us, collectively.
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JackRiddler wrote:.
It is worth noting that Obama's orders to end torture and close Guantanamo, though hailed in the main, also came under immediate fire from the right with information that could have only originated in the Pentagon.
Technical loopholes in such orders don't always matter. The bureaucracy responds in the sense in which the order is meant, if they like it. That seems to be what's happening with the stem cell provisions; truth is, almost everyone's for that. But a resistant bureaucracy can find ways to circumvent even airtight provisions.
Even Clinton with his avowed globalism and muscle policies was not as bad as the pressure from the military and the right wing made him be; the example with him would be the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy, which was forced on him by Powell. Well, actually, I think it was one of his original sins - he should have asked instead for Powell's resignation.
But it's not that easy. Remember the 1994 atmosphere, at least in the media, of a White House under siege, with bizarre attacks happening in the vicinity every other week, including the fellow who crashed a Cessna into the building? (On the night of Sept. 11th, if that means anything.) Safe to assume Obama understands that, and what happened even to a committed anti-Communist like JFK.
Again, this isn't to make excuses for someone who's been very open in his rhetorical support for continued war, military solutions and 'service'. But imagine the generals came to him a couple of days ago with a plan to launch missiles at targets in Pakistan, under a program that they've already been running for close to two years, and he told them to lay off until he'd figured out more about the situation. How do you think they would react? What ripples would it have?
Understanding the duplicity of the corporatist globalist imperialist two-party duopoly under capitalism (did I name all the relevant ideologies?) is not enough. Sometimes even the people must learn how to play the game. Challenging Obama to live up to some theoretical face-value as a champion of peace, and mobilizing in large numbers for that, makes it more possible to actually happen.
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mentalgongfu2 wrote:No, no, Mac, Obama is bad, bad, bad. Please stop suggesting that anything good can come from his presidency. It can't, and it won't, and I'll see you in the gruel line in the dissident camps this summer where we can apologize to those who saw the looming fascist dictatorship while we were blinded by irrational hope and silly hero worship.
Pan, why don't you give it a rest for a while?
freemason9 wrote:You have to understand that OBL is, ultimately, a religious freak/fanatic that we can finally brutalize without hesitation.
JackRiddler wrote:compared2what? wrote:Forgive me. What I meant was: I respectfully dissent.
Um, which part?
compared2what? wrote:Not that nothing ever comes to a sudden end.
Dan Rather's career, for example.
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