Zoo chimp 'planned' stone attacks

[SonicG]

OK I see the instinct angle...A while back someone was telling me about the genius of crows which seems to involve a completely unexpected amount of intelligence if not planning.
This article also discusses crows:

The study notes that crows are also social and have unusually large brains for their size. "It is relatively the same size as the chimpanzee brain," the authors said.

They say that crows and apes both think about their social and physical surroundings in complex ways, using tool use as an example.

[tazmic]

Zoo chimp 'planned' stone attacks

Yeah, he picked the stone up - then he threw it

[Mx32]

"They say that crows and apes both think about their social and physical surroundings in complex ways, using tool use as an example."

Heh! There are 3 animals that "think about their social and physical surroundings in complex ways,", then? Apes, crows and humans.

What are the chances of the universe having just the 3 that "think about their social and physical surroundings in complex ways, "

Nope. Show a dog/cat his/her fave biscuit/treat/toy/bone. Then place it somewhere hard to reach...now watch the dog work out how to get it: Up onto the sofa, along the arm, jump onto the stool, leap onto the table...

I've watched a hamster planning it's move, failing to achieve its goal, then going back to step one with a readjusted plan...

[tazmic]

But the cognitive scientists have only recently started to admit that maybe 'animals' are conscious too...

So we should give these simple minded folks a break, this is a big step for them.

[Luposapien]

Years ago I visited the Philadelphia Zoo with my family. In the primates section, there was an enclosure with some chimps (or possibly bonobos, it's been a while). Two were sitting at the bottom of a tall tree, looking back out at the humans watching them. I could swear they were having a conversation of some sort about us crazy people on the other side of the fence. So, one of the chimps nudges the other one, sort of a "check this out" kind of gesture. He (not actually sure of the gender, so just projecting here) then proceeds to climb up to the lowest limb on the tree, look out at the spectators, and clap his hands a few times. We all clapped for him. He then climbed up to the next highest branch, repeated the prompting gesture, and we all dutifully clapped again. He continued in this way up to the top branch, receiving more and more enthusiastic applause at each stop. He then climbed back down to the bottom, nudged the other chimp again, and proceeded to ignore the stupid, easily manipulated monkeys on the other side of the fence.

[beeline]

Years ago I visited the Philadelphia Zoo with my family...

Luposapien, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but probably those monkeys are no longer with us:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B01E3D91539F936A15751C1A963958260&sec=&spon=

Fire at the Philadelphia Zoo Kills 23 Primates

Published: December 25, 1995
Smoke from a fire at the nation's oldest zoo early today killed 23 gorillas, orangutans, gibbons and lemurs, all endangered species, officials said.

A security guard at the Philadelphia Zoo reported the fire in the World of Primates building shortly before 1 A.M. The fire was confined to the ceiling in a 30-by-30-foot section of the one-story brick building, the fire commissioner, Harold Hairston, said.

Every animal in the center room of the three-room primate building was killed, he said, and 10 others in an adjacent room were treated for smoke inhalation.

Karl Kranz, who supervises the zoo's animal keepers, said: "I have watched a lot of these animals from when they were very young, watched them mature and develop. This is so hard."

Killed were six western lowland gorillas, three Bornean orangutans, four white-handed gibbons and 10 lemurs. Among them were the gorillas named John, Snickers and Samantha, all residents of the zoo since 1967. An 11-month-old gorilla, Maandazi, was the youngest victim. After she was born, a sign was posted outside the primate building reading, "It's a girl!"

A second sign outside the World of Primates reads: "Nighttime at the zoo finds our gorillas nestled together in their bedrooms. Even indoors, the stars shine above them as they sleep."

The zoo's president, Pete Hoskins, said: "These animals are so close to human that this is really like losing members of our family. They have moods, personalities and even a sense of humor."

A bereavement specialist from the University of Pennsylvania's School of Veterinary Medicine was called in to meet with zoo keepers, cage cleaners, curators and other employees.

The cause of the fire was under investigation. The building, opened in 1985, had smoke detectors but not an automatic sprinkler system. The law does not require one.

The zoo is usually closed on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. It was supposed to reopen on Tuesday, but officials said today that it would now remain closed until Jan. 2. The primate exhibit, which is not the only monkey enclosure at the zoo, could be closed for several months, until the fire damage is repaired.

The zoo was founded in 1859. About 1.4 million visitors passed through its Victorian-style gardens last year.

The fire occurred at the end of a troubled year for the zoo, including layoffs, resignations of important officials, investigations of embezzling and an anticipated $1.5 million budget deficit.

[marmot]

someone was telling me about the genius of crows which seems to involve a completely unexpected amount of intelligence if not planning.
This article also discusses crows.

Sonic, last fall Penguin posted a thread about crows making monkeys out of chimps in mental tests.

Here's the thread, if interested.

[Luposapien]

Luposapien, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but probably those monkeys are no longer with us:

Yeah, it was definitely pre-1995 when we visited (probably around 1990 or so). It doesn't look like the article mentions chimps as being among the victims of the fire, but it was quite some time ago, and though I remember the incident fairly clearly, I wasn't exactly an expert on primates at that point, so I could be mis-remembering the species. I hope that the fellow who gave me that eye-opener was spared. Either way, that's terribly sad.

[marmot]

...

[lucky]

"The monkeys there did nothing but play with themselves"

Isnt that what mental patients do when they have been locked up in an institution?

[marmot]

"The monkeys there did nothing but play with themselves"

Isnt that what mental patients do when they have been locked up in an institution?

Could be what ALL healthy males do when they're bored and lonely!

[monkeytribe23]

no comment.

[Joe Hillshoist]

If a cow in a paddock watched me open my yard gate several times then worked out how to do it itself, does that involve planning?

It happened and I am still in two minds about what it says about the animals intelligence.

I say yes to that. I had a cat that learned how to open the door by hanging on the knob, and then swinging side to side until the door opened a crack. Animals are much smarter than most people give them credit for.

I'm inclined to think it did show intention and understanding most of the time.

Cows are smartarse animals sometimes.

Cats are very clever. We had one that used to teach its kids martial arts, watch them practice and pull them up about their mistakes if the did the practice wrong.

[SonicG]

You sure that wasn't a dog, Joe?


I'm not big on performance art but one great one I saw years ago was in a public square in Mexico and was basically "Businessman Zoo" with one guy in the typical trappings of the businessman office/apt. and the actor nailed what a human might act like if caught in a cage- mindless repetition of making phone calls, the 6 o'clock scotch on the rocks, obsessive paper shuffling...

[mentalgongfu2]

"Zoo chimp 'planned' stone attacks"

"White House chimp 'planned' Iraq war"

"Office chimp 'planned' product rollout"