Ted Kennedy has passed

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Postby Zap » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:53 pm

Midichlorians?
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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:02 pm

A very well known drunk drives off a bridge on a country road, flees the scene and doesn't alert authorities...until how may hours later?... is charged, found guilty and sentenced, but of course the sentence was suspended so he can spend the rest of his days drinking his life away in a cushy Senate chair...

Give him a pass?

Yea, I bettcha' that's exactly how Mary Jo's family feels as well.

Any one up for BBQ?

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Postby josey wales » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:23 pm

I'm with n0x23

What I could never figure out was how he could serve the very beast that killed his two brothers? How could he sell his soul and never demand the truth and justice. Was a Senate seat worth the blood? I guess he learned it a the feet of his old man. He built the empire on illegal booze and stock manipulation so was it just a cost of doing business?

Never mind he sponsored and supported some of the worst legislation in our history.
Dying ain't much of a living, boy
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Postby daba64 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:35 pm

John Dean said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick...." [White House tapes pg 121]

E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were seen in Martha's Vineyard that
weekend. It appears that Ted was set up by the CIA.
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm

[quote="n0x23"][/quote]


You have fuckin no clue to which you speak, you were there of course? So you do know the truth, huh?
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:51 pm

josey wales wrote:I'm with n0x23

What I could never figure out was how he could serve the very beast that killed his two brothers? How could he sell his soul and never demand the truth and justice. Was a Senate seat worth the blood? I guess he learned it a the feet of his old man. He built the empire on illegal booze and stock manipulation so was it just a cost of doing business?

Never mind he sponsored and supported some of the worst legislation in our history.



you have no fuckin clue, serve the beast? you make me puke, fuck you
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:57 pm

This song was originally recorded by the Rascals, written by Felix Cavilere for Ted Kennedy after his brother Bobby was assassinated.

A Ray of Hope

Most people got soul if they wanna try
Let love be your goal and let it fly
Cause it's easy to hate and to draw a line
But error is human forgiveness is divine

I know a lot of people who think like me
That this world can be a place that's filled with harmony
First there's a lot of things we've got to rearrange
Put an end to hate and lies
So peace can come and truth shall reign
As long as there is a ray of hope

Lord, I don't mind going out and doin' my work
Light up the way to brotherhood
Help us to make His dream understood

Sometimes the road gets a little bit rough
Your strength is all gone, you had enough
But there's people who win without making fists
Our world won't survive lest we think like this

I can't imagine any greater need
To treat each other as we'd like to be
It's a gas just knowing what is yet to come
Not unless we get together
Got to get together one by one

As long as there is a ray of hope
Lord, I don't mind goin out and doin my work
Light up the way to brotherhood
I got to keep on searchin, keep on searchin
Till I find out
Keep on searchin, keep on searchin
Till I find out
Keep on searchin, keep on searchin
Till I find out

Gonna take a little look way down inside
Gotta find out Lord, why I'm alive
We'll pray for a day when all men are free
And people can live like they're meant to be
Meanwhile it's all up to you and me
Start working together towards this dream

As long as there is a ray of hope
Lord, I don't mind goin out and doin my work
Light up the way to brotherhood
Help us to make His dream understood
As long as there is a ray of hope
I got to wait my turn till I can vote
As long as there is a ray of hope




Tomorrow, as Senator Kennedy said, "...the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:03 pm

Ted Kennedy's Greatest Accomplishment: He Created Americans
by Dana Houle
Share this on Twitter - Ted Kennedy's Greatest Accomplishment: He Created Americans Wed Aug 26, 2009 at 09:16:03 AM PDT
Of the many accomplishments of Ted Kennedy, few have had a more profound effect on America—America as a state, as an economy, a society, and as a nation—as the first act he ever managed to passage, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

The Kennedy family made tremendous sacrifices for our country. Joe Kennedy died in a secret mission during World War II. John and Robert, of course, were both assassinated. And just about every other member of the family had a long history of public service, either in the political sphere or with causes like Eunice's devotion to the Special Olympics. The Kennedy "clan" was also famously loving and close. Thus, it was appropriate that a cause championed by John Kennedy and eventually brought to passage by Teddy put in to immigration policy a preference for family ties over marketable skills:

The current system of legal immigration dates to 1965. It marked a radical break with previous policy and has led to profound demographic changes in America. But that's not how the law was seen when it was passed -- at the height of the civil rights movement, at a time when ideals of freedom, democracy and equality had seized the nation. Against this backdrop, the manner in which the United States decided which foreigners could and could not enter the country had become an increasing embarrassment.

An Argument Based on Egalitarianism

"The law was just unbelievable in its clarity of racism," says Stephen Klineberg, a sociologist at Rice University. "It declared that Northern Europeans are a superior subspecies of the white race. The Nordics were superior to the Alpines, who in turn were superior to the Mediterraneans, and all of them were superior to the Jews and the Asians."

By the 1960s, Greeks, Poles, Portuguese and Italians were complaining that immigration quotas discriminated against them in favor of Western Europeans. The Democratic Party took up their cause, led by President John F. Kennedy. In a June 1963 speech to the American Committee on Italian Migration, Kennedy called the system of quotas in place back then " nearly intolerable."

It may have started out as a political sop to "ethnic" voters in 1960, but it's likely that no political act of the last century has so changed America and put us on the path to eventually becoming a multi-racial nation as that law from 1965. In 1960, the quota for immigrants (pdf) in to the US from Asia was 21,604. From the entire continent of Africa, only 1,925 immigrants were allowed in to the US. In 1960 only 5.4% of Americans were foreign-born; most were from Europe. But by 2000, 35 years of the new immigration policy, 11.1% of the population was foreign-born; of the foreign-born, only 16% were from Europe, with about half from Latin America and a quarter from Asia.

My home—the Detroit area—has been transformed in recent decades by massive immigration from Lebanon and Iraq, Yemen and Albania. I moved a few years ago to DC, which has become a major destination for immigrants from Ethiopia and Eritrea and West Africa. I'm now working in the quintessential Scandinavian state, but whose largest cities now have thriving communities of Vietnamese and Cambodians and Hmong and Somalis. In major cities like New York or Los Angeles, or in small towns that become destinations for immigrants from halfway around the world, the people we live next to, buy things from, worship with, befriend, marry and with whom we create our own families, are people who were let in to America because of Senator Ted Kennedy's first major legislation.

That the bill prioritized family ties, and was passed by an Irish Catholic, is apt. Catholics were the most despised religious group in early America. After the enslaved Africans and the persecuted native Americans, no other major group was so marginalized as the Irish. But today, Irish Catholics are no longer discriminated against, are no longer outside the mainstream of American society. The discrimination was fading, but still existed in 1960, when John Kennedy became our first (and still only) Catholic president. But thanks in part to the accomplishments and sacrifices of the Kennedy family, by the time I was growing up in the 1970's, being discriminated against because you were Irish Catholic—a real experience for my grandparents—was for me something that existed only in history and family lore.

Some people and groups, when they "make it" and are prosperous and accepted, don't want to extend opportunities to others, lest, they fear, they lose their own (newly) privileged status. In the terminology of immigration policy, they want to "pull up the ladders" and keep everyone else out. But the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was an act of lowering the ladders and welcoming immigrants from across the globe. When he was arguing for the act, Kennedy tried to assure critics that it wouldn't significantly change the ethnic makeup of the country. Obviously he was wrong, and it's open to interpretation whether he misjudged the effects or concealed his intents. But in an interview a few years ago, he espoused the best American principles in supporting the act:

Q: Some have suggested it was a mistake to make family reunification the main purpose of our immigration law. They say perhaps we should have a system more like Canada's, which lets people in based largely on their skills. How do you respond to these criticisms?

KENNEDY: I think our tradition of the Statue of Liberty is to be willing to accept the unwashed as well as the highly skilled. There are a lot of people who haven't had opportunities in other places as a result of dictatorships and totalitarian regimes and discrimination. Are we going to say we refuse to let any of those individuals come in because we've got someone who has happened to have a more advantaged situation? I'm not sure that's what this country is all about.

Most of us Americans descend from people who arrived as among the "great unwashed masses." As with my family—most of whom originally came from Canada in the 1920's—many of us have unwashed ancestors who had the luck to arrive here before the ladders were pulled up just before the Great Depression. But after 1965, the ladders were lowered, and the "unwashed" were again welcomed to America.

Much will be made over the next few days about Ted Kennedy's lifelong effort to extend health care to all Americans. It will be depicted as a great tragedy that Kennedy didn't live to see his dream enacted. But we should also celebrate Ted Kennedy's greatest achievement. Ted Kennedy, indeed the entire Kennedy family, gave a lot to America, but nothing greater than the 1965 immigration bill, because it gave people around the globe—even the unwashed—the opportunity to become Americans. Ted Kennedy gave us Americans.
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:21 pm

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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:40 pm

My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life,’’ the 36-year-old senator declared, “but be remembered simply as a good and decent man who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.


the dawning of the New Frontier and the soul-crushing assassinations that followed


Ted Kennedy played a leading role in perhaps the greatest political drama of the 20th century - the dawning of the New Frontier and the soul-crushing assassinations that followed - but he will be remembered by history for his legislative achievements in health care, education, civil rights, and immigration.

The fact that his tangible accomplishments transcended his mythic role in the Kennedy drama attests to the vast extent of his legislative impact. In each of four areas, he dominated legislative politics for more than four decades, spanning ten presidencies, and played a large role in transforming the government’s relationship to the people.

Bill by bill, provision by provision, he expanded government health support to millions of children and the elderly, helped millions more go to college, opened the immigration doors to millions of new Americans from continents other than Europe, and protected the civil rights bulwark of the ’60s through a long period of conservative domination.

And by the time his life ended yesterday, surrounded by loved ones in a gentle scene that contrasted sharply with the violent deaths of his brothers, Ted Kennedy had built a nuts-and-bolts legacy to stand beside that of his presidential brother as a figure of hope and his senatorial brother as a figure of compassion.

“He was always prepared, always worked hard, really managed to get things done,’’ said Michael Corgan, history professor at Boston University. “He’ll be remembered as the foremost senator of his day.’’

Much of the world, however, is only starting to catch up to Kennedy’s legislative accomplishments, having long ago closed their memory bank on him.

There are still tens of millions of detractors who tuned him out in the ’80s, when, as a symbol of liberal excess who was unable to control his appetites, he seemed to belong to the past.

There are, as well, an equal number of admirers who remember him from an even more distant past, as the young man standing up in the face of unspeakable grief, having lost a second brother to an assassin’s bullet.

“My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life,’’ the 36-year-old senator declared, “but be remembered simply as a good and decent man who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.’’

Many may never be able to separate him from his brothers, believing him to be either an undeserving heir or a noble keeper of the flame. And for them, his death will close the book on a long-running saga that cut a major swath through American political life.

“Most people will remember him best for his brothers, for picking up the Kennedy flag, and for a series of truly unforgettable speeches,’’ said Don Kettl, dean of the University of Maryland School of Public Policy. “But history will likely remember him best for his legislative accomplishments and his ability to build bipartisan support to translate ambitious ideas into lasting law.’’

In fact, Ted Kennedy was always more consistent than his brothers, a pure liberal who believed in the government’s obligation to help the less fortunate. While Jack Kennedy ran for president as a centrist, and Bobby followed a zigzag path from the anticommunist right to the antiwar left, Ted was always a fixed point on the political map.

While most of his colleagues’ eyes would glaze over at the details of spending bill, Kennedy could easily recite the difference between a formula that gave benefits to families up to 30 percent above the poverty level and one that gave benefits to those 40 percent above. He could say just how many families were in that extra sliver and envision the human beings behind the statistics.

Ironically, the lasting scar on his record will be an incident in which he appeared to show insufficient concern for the life of a woman, Mary Jo Kopechne, who died while riding in his car on Chappaquiddick Island. Kennedy didn’t report the accident for eight hours.

“I think he finally put Chappaquiddick behind him not so much by doing penance but through public service,’’ said Corgan.

That assessment won’t be universally accepted. There are many who will not forgive Kennedy for Chappaquiddick, just as there were many who instantly forgave him out of respect for his family. This was his fate. Memories of deaths - of Jack’s, Bobby’s, Mary Jo Kopechne’s - shadowed him wherever he went.

He found an escape in good works. And it is for those many deeds that he will be deeply and honestly mourned.
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Postby justdrew » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:40 pm

daba64 wrote:John Dean said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick...." [White House tapes pg 121]

E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were seen in Martha's Vineyard that
weekend. It appears that Ted was set up by the CIA.


it's an evil mob run once by prescott bush killing off their rivals. IF there's a way to have fixed things, it would have been and remains, use fire to fight fire. The bush thugs (which is what nixon was) needed to have been hunted. There is no alternative. We have an opposition political wing in this country, what it needs is a deniable clandestine military wing. Shouldn't be too hard to set up, no one will believe it exists anyway, that would just be a conspiracy theory after all. :twisted:

as to who's a valid target? They would be known by their deeds.
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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:19 pm

You have fuckin no clue to which you speak...


No clue?
Alright, enlighten me then....what part have I gotten wrong...

A very well known drunk drives off a bridge on a country road, flees the scene and doesn't alert authorities...until how may hours later?... is charged, found guilty and sentenced, but of course the sentence was suspended so he can spend the rest of his days drinking his life away in a cushy Senate chair...


Which part and or parts are wrong?



you were there of course? So you do know the truth, huh?


No, of course not, nor do I claim to have been, but...umm..were YOU there?

But I have read the Court transcripts from the one of two individuals who were there that night...you know, the one who had been drinking rum & cokes and beer (then later lied by claiming he hadn't had any alcohol on the night in question), that night then hopped behind the wheel of a car, drove it off a bridge and then fled the scene....you know that one?
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Postby justdrew » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:40 pm

n0x23 wrote: {stuff}


where is your evidence he was driving the car in the first place? admission doesn't count as he had no choice but to... that's a "bear trap."

but look - I'm NOT going to sit here and debate this with you. You believe what you want about whoever you want. I couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned it was a setup and that's that. I have sufficient evidence to believe so.

WHAT'S more, even if your account were accurate, I can forgive him.
Last edited by justdrew on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:43 pm

n0x23 wrote:
You have fuckin no clue to which you speak...


No clue?
Alright, enlighten me then....what part have I gotten wrong...

A very well known drunk drives off a bridge on a country road, flees the scene and doesn't alert authorities...until how may hours later?... is charged, found guilty and sentenced, but of course the sentence was suspended so he can spend the rest of his days drinking his life away in a cushy Senate chair...


Which part and or parts are wrong?



Wrong? YOU CONVENIENTLY FUCKIN LEFT OUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF HISTORY THERE BUDDY, DO YOU ALWAYS JUDGE A PERSON BY ONE MOMENT OF THEIR LIFE? WHICH YOU ONLY HAVE READ ABOUT AND HAVE NO PROOF OF ANYTHING YOU POST. WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED IN YOUR LIFE? ARE YOU THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE TO CONDEMN A PERSON YOU APPARENTLY KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT? HOW MANY LIVES HAVE YOU SAVED ALONG YOUR JOURNEY ON THIS PLANET? YOU ARE AN UNEDUCATED SELF ABSORBED CHILD.



you were there of course? So you do know the truth, huh?

No, of course not, nor do I claim to have been, but...umm..were YOU there?

But I have read the Court transcripts from the one of two individuals who were there that night...you know, the one who had been drinking rum & cokes and beer (then later lied by claiming he hadn't had any alcohol on the night in question), that night then hopped behind the wheel of a car, drove it off a bridge and then fled the scene....you know that one?


Yea there's lots of "court records" out there, Warren Commission, 9/11 Commission, Robert Kennedy's assasination, MLK asssasination, etc.... apparently you believe everything that comes out in a "court" record? Grow up.
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Postby pepsified thinker » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:05 pm

I heard a brief clip on NPR--didn't catch all of it, so apologies if I get it wrong--in which one of the women who were the 'Jersey Girls' (have I got the name right? I'm referring to the women who became 9-11 activitis after their husbands died on 9-11) talked about him having been early and consistent in supporting them, and in particular, consistent even after events had passed them by--that he called and invited at least the one doing the interview to go sailing with him years after others had stopped giving them the time of day.

You could read that in terms of some political calculation on his part, or paint it in lurid colors of some other nature, but given the man's record I'm going with the interpretation that, whatever his personal failings, he was also a genuinely caring, thoughtful man who sought out and acted on opportunities to help others, whether through enacting laws or simply showing he, personally, cared and understood them and their needs/situations.

I hadn't heard the bit about 'Chappaquiddick = beartrap' and just reading a bit about it here doesn't settle the matter one way or the other, but having read a lot here about all sorts of 'ops' to get rid of people, to one degree or another, it seems very possible that his accident, wasn't. The fact that so many people opposing him over the years raised it almost makes it seem more so.

But I feel the attraction of such a reading of that incident, so I'll stop with pondering it this way--I don't want to buy-into the 'beartrap' view of things just because it'd let Ted's record be unstained.
"we must cultivate our garden"
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