HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:29 am

OK, this Disney-ite Michael Johnson who came to Hervalife as CEO. How clean is he? More importantly, what about Disney? Have there ever been any implications of cult connections there?
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:09 am

Herbalife Hearings (1985), Part II, 17/12/2004 [Congressional hearings]

http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webgli ... =HerbaLife
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:51 am

Jebus, I'd always kind of liked Harkin, even though I became a tad disillusioned with him after 9/11. The more I read about Herbalife, the more I wonder how he has become so cozy with their people that they're his top campaign contributors. Now I'm wondering if he would have inserted anything to their favor in the "health"care bill. Check this out:

http://www.mlmwatch.org/13Victims/fox.html
Ripped Off By Herbalife
Susan Fox

In 2001, my husband and I worked outside the home, were both unhappy with our jobs, and were probably vulnerable at that time to a "work from home" sales pitch. One morning there was a business card in our door with a link to a website. We checked out the website and were intrigued and requested more free information. After reading a blue booklet, we opted for more information, which cost about $35. When it arrived, we realized that the business was Herbalife, as the package contained some free samples. At that point, we should have followed our gut instinct and backed off, but we didn't.

We were contacted by phone by a couple who would eventually be our sponsors, and also by their sponsor in Wisconsin. It was always a 3-way phone call. They persiuaded us that the only way to start making money quickly was to come in at a supervisor level. We wanted time to think it over but they objected. Perhaps if we had given it more time, we wouldn't have done it at all. Everything was rush, rush, rush -- time was of the essence it seemed. They were very good at the sales pitch, made glowing promises of making money, brushed away our concerns. Very high pressure here from the lady in Wisconsin. We entered at the supervisor level, which required purchasing $4,000 worth of inventory (products). After that was done, there was no going back, no way to refund on that. Then we were told we needed to purchase voicemail accounts, one for products & one for recruiting, at $20 a month, each! We were told we needed to switch our long distance carrier for a Herbalife carrier, we needed to purchase blue books, cassette tapes, videos, distruibutor kits, open a business bank account, and purchase business checks, product catalogs. The list seemed endless. We were told we needed to switch from DirecTV to Dish Network so we could purchase the Herbalife channel. We refused to do that. We laid out hundreds of dollars to purchase everything else we were told we HAD to,. It wasn't until much later we found out all these were actually options and could have waited.

We tried very hard to build our new business. We sent out the letters to friends, associates, and relatives. We placed ads in newspapers across the U.S. and put up flyers, distributed business cards everyplace we went. We worked all day and then spent 3-4 hours every evening, 5 days a week, distributing flyers and cards, making cold calls, or making preparations. We talked weekly with our supervisors (at our expense), who told us how to advertise and how much to do. The newspaper ads alone averaged $300/month. We went to seminars, wore buttons, and talked to strangers constantly, all encouraged by the company. Most people requested the free information (blue books). We were required to mail out at least 25 of these a week. However, few people were willing to spend the $35 for additional information. We eventually sold two or three distributorships. We had very little luck selling the product itself. People thought it was just too expensive. I made 3-way calls (once again at my expense) with potential customers and my supervisor, trying to sell product. My supervisor eventually gave up trying to help me sell the products this way! We were left to flounder by ourselves. Friends and relatives were the only people we were ever able to sell products to.

When we complained to the supervisor, we were told to keep doing what we were already doing, only double our efforts. We were barely making enough money selling products to cover our business expenses. We were also required to call the Herbalife network phone directory daily to listen to pre-recorded "pep talks." They calls averaged 30 minutes to an hour, and we also paid for the these calls. Herbalife also requires that it's distributors pay annual "membership dues" of over $50 to remain a distributor.

My husband and I gave this business adventure 20 to 30 hours per week, doing everything we were told to do while our advisers continued the empty promises of residual income checks. The most we ever got from Herbalife was a check for $3, not the thousands as promised. We were also required to place a personal order for ourselves that HAD to total $100 or more a month, each and every month. After almost a year had passed the Herbalife business left us thousands of dollars in debt with nothing to show for it. At this point our immediate supervisors had quit the business and we were dealing with their supervisor in Wisconsin. She just flat-out quit helping us or returning our calls. We decided to cut our losses and the supervisor in Wisconsin agreed to buy our recruiting supplies and pay for the shipping. I sent off 3 large boxes to her and had to contact her repeatedly to get her to pay for the items. She finally did, but she stuck us with the shipping cost of over $80. We finally sold the rest of our inventory on eBay for a pittance of what we originally paid for it

Herbalife distributors used to plaster flyers everywhere and put up signs in vacant lots. After the Arizona Republic published an article about it, many people felt it was akin to littering and the city passed a ordinance prohibiting these types of advertising practices. Many other cities have similar laws, and I believe that enough fuss was made that most Herbalife distributors are now using the Internet and newspaper ads.

To sum up: Herbalife pressures, bullies, promises and pledges to support and help. We were lied to and basically left on our own. Even though we tried as hard as we could, our supervisor decided we were more trouble than we were worth. The only people that make money in this business are those who have an army of distributors under them and an unlimited income to flood the market with advertising and mass mailings of blue books.

My husband and I were left thousands of dollars in debt, but much wiser.

MLM Watch Home Page


This article was posted on February 14, 2004.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby beeline » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:59 am

As soon as I saw "multi-level marketing" I stopped reading. Whatever else it is, it is a ponzi scheme ripoff.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:03 pm

I don't mean to make this thread about Harkin, but I'd like to keep this information about him together on this one thread with all of c2w's excellent research, because I think there are some weird connections. Also, a I said, I'm not going to be terribly surprised if Harkin gets some benefit for Herbalife and the others inserted into the healthcare bill. So, while c2w is busy with her daytime life, I'm going to post a couple of things.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/ar ... 032434.htm

Cures or `Quackery'?
How Senator Harkin shaped federal research on alternative medicine
By Stephen Budiansky
Posted 7/9/95

As Sen. Tom Harkin tells it, it was a personal experience that made him a real believer in "alternative" medicine--and, more to the point, in diverting several million dollars out of the National Institutes of Health research budget each year to look into unconventional therapies. A "guy from Arizona" who claimed that bee-pollen capsules could cure Harkin's allergies came to see him; Harkin swallowed 250 of the pills over the next five days; and, sure enough, he says, his allergies were gone. "Something has to be done to investigate these things," the Iowa Democrat told a 1993 Senate hearing, "because it sure worked for me."

Just a few months before his visit to the halls of Congress, however, the guy from Arizona, Royden Brown of the C C Pollen Co., paid a $200,000 settlement under a consent agreement with the Federal Trade Commission. He promised to cease making false claims for his High Desert bee-pollen capsules and misrepresenting as objective news programs what were paid television ads for his wares. Brown's infomercials claimed, among other things, that the company's bee-pollen capsules could cure heart disease, reverse the aging process, prevent memory loss, improve one's sex life, kill bacteria, promote weight loss, prevent premenstrual syndrome and provide "an energy source" for athletes who don't have time to work out. ("I stopped counting at 59 claims," says an FTC lawyer who handled the case.) The ads also asserted that both Ronald Reagan and "the risen Jesus Christ, when he came back to Earth," consumed bee pollen. Harkin says he became aware of the FTC complaint against Brown only a year later, in 1994.

Now hear this. The friend who introduced Harkin to Brown and whom Harkin credits with getting him interested in alternative medicine--fellow Iowan and former Democratic Rep. Berkeley Bedell--has been touting some even more dubious characters. Bedell claims he was cured of prostate cancer by Gaston Naessens, who, Bedell says, invented a special microscope that allows him to "look at blood samples and diagnose cancer well before a victim has any symptoms."

Naessens, who lives in Canada, was twice convicted of practicing medicine illegally in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s. The cancer "cure" he currently peddles, which he calls 714-X, was described by Canadian health authorities as consisting of camphor, mineral salts, alcohol and water; Canada has issued a warning against this product, deploring its use in treating cancer and AIDS and cautioning of side effects. 714-X is at least the third such "secret" formula Naessens has tried to pass off as a cancer cure, according to the American Cancer Society and the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF), a nonprofit group that monitors questionable therapies. Naessens could not be reached for comment. (A footnote to this story: Bedell had received conventional treatment for his cancer before taking Naessens's "cure.")

All of this might simply be considered harmless wackiness were it not for the fact that the NIH Office of Alternative Medicine (OAM), which Harkin was instrumental in establishing in 1992, has been strongly influenced by a small group of advocates of outlandish therapies with whom Harkin has allied himself. As chairman (until last fall's election) of the Senate Appropriations subcommittee in charge of NIH's funding, Harkin used his power to shape the makeup of the OAM's advisory council and to push particular research areas, say current and former NIH officials.

Even strong proponents of the idea that NIH ought to be taking a serious look at promising alternative therapies, such as natural plant products for cancer treatment or acupuncture for pain relief, complain that the entire office has been tainted by what the OAM's former director, Dr. Joseph Jacobs, calls the "Harkin cronies."

Bedell is one of four members of the alternative-medicine office's 18-person advisory council who Jacobs says were appointed at the specific insistence of Harkin. Harkin's office flatly denies that he ever requested any appointments to the council, though Jacobs's boss at the time, NIH Deputy Director Ruth Kirchstein, says the senator did offer some "recommendations."

Jacobs says he also was repeatedly pressed by Harkin and his staff to fund pet interests of the "Harkinites"; in one instance, Jacobs says, a Harkin aide told him to issue a $200,000 grant to Brown to study bee pollen. The grant was never made, though the OAM did send a staffer to Arizona to conduct a "field investigation" of Brown's claims--which yielded "nothing conclusive," according to an NIH spokesman. (Harkin says the OAM initiated its investigation "separate and apart from my endorsements.")

"I don't think the Harkin cronies really represented the alternative-medical community or the patient community--I think they represented themselves and their own particular agenda," says Jacobs, who resigned as director of the OAM last August. Jacobs says he left because he was fed up with the political pressure; Kirchstein says the "office was floundering administratively."

Critics of the OAM complain that some advisory council members, including at least one of the Harkinites, have exploited the NIH name to peddle their wares. "It's really shameful," says Barrie Cassileth, a consulting professor of community and family medicine at Duke University, who describes herself as one of the few council members who are not "promoters" of one alternative therapy or another. "Proponents of unproven methods are using their affiliation with the OAM to give themselves some legitimacy and give the products they promote some legitimacy." William Jarvis, president of the NCAHF, is blunter: "It's the greatest public-relations victory for quackery."

Curious fund-raising. Frank Wiewel, one of the four advisory council members with Harkin ties, is one who critics complain has used his NIH affiliation in this manner. Wiewel runs an organization called People Against Cancer, based in Otho, Iowa. The group, which he describes as a "nonprofit, public benefit group dedicated to new directions to the war on cancer," has a curious approach to fund-raising, however. "We ask people to join us, and we become their advocate," he explains. For a $250-a-year "sustaining membership," the organization will fax a member's cancer diagnosis to a "group of doctors and researchers throughout the world," who will then suggest treatment alternatives. "The problem with conventional therapy is that radiation and chemotherapy are extremely dangerous and they don't make people live longer," Wiewel told this reporter when he called the People Against Cancer phone number posing as a relative of a cancer patient seeking information about alternative treatments. "We have a program set up to help people access options." ("He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about," replies Dr. Hugh Shingleton, vice president for cancer detection and treatment of the American Cancer Society. "Radiation therapy used properly for primary treatment of many cancers offers not only longer survival but cure in the majority of instances.")

In the course of the telephone conversation, Wiewel mentioned that he was on the OAM's advisory council. A packet of literature from Wiewel containing membership application forms mentioned his NIH affiliation in four separate places.

Kirchstein of NIH acknowledges there were concerns about the misuse of NIH's imprimatur by advisory council members, but she says that "we do not go out and police." Wiewel was, however, sent what one NIH official calls a "cautionary note" earlier this year reiterating NIH's policy forbidding any NIH advisory council member from using his affiliation to promote a product or service. Wiewel confirms receiving such a letter but says it was "more of a clarification letter." He says he has not been required to change any of his literature.

Wiewel, in his telephone sales pitch to a prospective member of his group, also asserted that NIH was studying a number of alternative cancer treatments, including "immunoaugmentative therapy," or IAT, an unapproved cancer cure banned after the Food and Drug Administration found that the injectable "therapy" was tainted with bacteria, hepatitis and HIV. Wiewel has promoted IAT in the past through a group called the IAT Patients' Association, which operated from the same post office box and telephone number as People Against Cancer. (A spokesman for NIH denies that the OAM has ever studied IAT.) Wiewel's organization still advertises a travel agency that can help cancer patients arrange trips to the Bahamas to obtain the IAT treatment.

Marketers of dubious treatments also have recently begun to refer to a massive report issued this spring by an earlier ad hoc advisory council to the OAM--which included many of the same people who now serve on the regular council. The report was an uncritical catalog of virtually every dubious and unproven treatment method of the past 100 years, from shark cartilage to treat arthritis and cancer to hypnosis as a way to increase breast size. The list of consultants brought in to produce the report included a number of promoters of questionable and even fraudulent treatments. In the latter category was Edward Sopcak, who in 1992 was found in contempt by a federal court for violating an injunction that barred him from selling "CanCell"--a potion he made in his kitchen from ingredients that included sulfuric and nitric acids and that he peddled as a cure for cancer, arthritis, diabetes and AIDS.

"Success rates." Part of the Harkinites' agenda has been to promote what they call "field investigations" or "outcomes research." "You go out and just simply find out whether what [someone] claims is correct or not. You check patients before they are treated; you check them after they are treated," Bedell told a Senate hearing. In an interview, he added that anyone who argued clinical trials were necessary was only going to "help more and more people to die."

Bedell, Wiewel and Ralph Moss, another council member identified as a Harkinite, have said that rather than award research grants, the OAM should visit alternative-medicine clinics and report on their "success rates." Moss, who edits a newsletter sent to members of People Against Cancer, was fired from Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center's public-affairs office in 1977 after he appeared at a press conference to denounce the hospital for supposedly covering up the benefits of laetrile, a discredited cancer cure. He could not be reached for comment.

Cassileth says she has tried in vain to point out at the advisory council meetings that clinical trials are the only way to know for sure if a treatment does anything. She points out three fundamental flaws in taking a clinic's apparent success rate at face value. First, many people who go to alternative clinics do not even have the disease for which they are being "treated." Second, "most people with serious illnesses who seek unproven methods have already received conventional care." Finally, most people who use unproven methods have minor problems such as temporary backaches, colds, allergies and headaches that will go away no matter what therapy, if any, is used. "Unless you compare people with the same problem who don't get the treatment, you never know" if the treatment actually is responsible for the patient's improvement, says Cassileth. "That's the comparison they're so afraid of."

Beyond all this, it also is not even clear that the OAM has fulfilled its charge of seriously evaluating promising alternatives. The office has awarded $4.8 million in grants to date; eight grants, totaling $1.9 million, were made with other NIH institutes to fund relatively straightforward clinical studies, but most of the grants--42 to date--have been made for "exploratory pilot projects" of $30,000 apiece. A review of the grants reveals many vague studies unlikely to yield conclusive results. A study of ayurvedic medicine, the traditional medicine of India, divided patients into three groups: One group received a one-time "risk assessment"; one received information on aerobic exercise, low-fat diets and relaxation; and the third received instruction on yoga, "primordial sound meditation" and ayurvedic dietary principles. The study is to follow the patients' cholesterol, blood pressure and general health status for a year. But with only 30 patients in each group, the study's director, Dr. David Simon of the Center for Mind-Body Medicine in San Diego, maintains that even if no significant differences emerge among the groups, that doesn't discredit ayurvedic medicine--it may just mean the sample size is too small.

"Pray-ers." Another one of the $30,000 studies seemingly unlikely to yield definitive results, conducted at the University of New Mexico, has looked at "intercessory prayer" to treat drug addiction. A group of "pray-ers" from the Albuquerque religious community agreed to pray for drug addicts in the experimental group at least once a week; the success rate of the prayed-for was to be compared with that of the not-prayed-for. (To safeguard patient confidentiality, the pray-ers were given only the first names of patients. But then to make sure the Almighty did not become confused as to which "Jim" was being referred to--the experimental-group Jim or the control-group Jim--the pray-ers were also provided with the patient identification numbers for the intended recipients of their prayers.) The principal investigator, Dr. Scott Walker, did not respond to requests for the results of this study.

Critics of the OAM are hopeful that with last November's election, the scheduled rotation of several of the Harkinites off the advisory council and the arrival on July 1 of a new director of the office, Dr. Wayne Jonas, a researcher at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, the office may yet get back on track. "I think it was something very well intended," says Jacobs, "but politicians and has-been politicians can't seem to leave well enough alone."

This story appears in the July 17, 1995 print edition of U.S. News & World Report.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:14 pm

Ok, see the mention of Gaston Naessens in that article? Well, it's kind of interesting to see that this same person was written about by one Christopher Byrd, as discussed in this article which is about COINTELPRO, Remote Viewing, Mind Control by Doc Hambone. Weren't a lot of these people connected with Scientology in one way or another?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... eople.html

Christopher Bird



Former CIA employee, worked for the Agency in Japan after graduating. Served in the Army, specializing in Psychological Warfare. After leaving the military, he worked at the CIA-connected Rand Development Corporation. Later, Time Magazine correspondent in Yugoslavia.

1972 - Co-authored The Secret Life of Plants with ex-OSS agent Peter Tompkins. Was/is the "Biocommunications Editor/Russian Translator" of Mankind Research Unlimited. (Weberman, A.J., "The Story of Mankind Research Unlimited, Inc.", CovertAction Information Bulletin, #9, 6/80, pg 17)

Presented a paper on dowsing and the psychic ability of plants at the "Mind Over Matter" conference at Penn State University, late January, 1977, organized by Ira Einhorn. Other attendees included Andrija Puharich and Thomas Bearden. (Levy, Steven, The Unicorn's Secret, Prentice Hall Press, 1989, pg 189)

Corresponded with C.B.Scott Jones during a Russian parapsychology conference.

Author of:

w/ Peter Tompkins, The Secret Life of Plants, Harper & Row, 1973

The Divining Hand, EP Dutton, 1979

w/ Peter Tompkins, Secrets of the Soil, Harper & Row, 1990

The Persecution and Trial of Gaston Naessens, HJ Kramer, 1991
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:38 pm

The friend who introduced Harkin to Brown and whom Harkin credits with getting him interested in alternative medicine--fellow Iowan and former Democratic Rep. Berkeley Bedell


Dang, i just checked out Berkeley Bedell, and I really like the guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkley_Bedell
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:40 pm

c2w mentioned a Dr. Steve Henig, and also lead. This article mentions both:

http://tinyurl.com/ygjoqg5

More lead testing confirms product safety, says Herbalife
By Lorraine Heller, 09-Jun-2008

Related topics: Industry, Weight management

Supplements firm Herbalife has said that additional testing it commissioned confirms that its products do not contain dangerous levels of lead, reiterating that recent allegations against the firm were "inaccurate" and "misleading".

The allegations, made last month by the Fraud Discovery Institute (FDI), claimed that six Herbalife products contained more than 0.5mg per day of lead and could lead to health concerns.




Herbalife at the time told NutraIngerdients-USA.com that its own lab tests contradicted those referenced by FDI, but said that it would conduct further investigations of its own following the allegations. The company yesterday announced that the additional testing by Covance in the US and Eurofins in the EU confirmed the safety of its products.




Scare tactics



"It's very easy to create fear by using words like 'lead' and 'dangerous' together, and then add the word 'children' to make it even scarier," said Herbalife chief scientific officer Dr Steve Henig.




"It's a fact that many natural and processed foods including vegetables and dairy products as well as our products, which are made with natural ingredients, contain extremely small amounts of naturally occurring lead that can be detected by today's highly sensitive analytical methods but are insignificant in posing any risk to consumers."



Testing



Last month, FDI reported independent testing carried out in Swiss and Israeli labs that found the Herbalife weight loss products breached Californian Proposition 65 permitted levels and therefore the products should carry warning labels.




Proposition 65 is a controversial, and some would say, anachronistic, Californian law enacted in 1986 that lists 800 potential contaminants, many of which are considered safe under Food and Drug Administration (FDA) law.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby compared2what? » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:30 pm

I think I bolded Proposition 65, too, although maybe I forgot. It has kind of an interesting backstory. But not that interesting, to be honest. And very weedy.

Plus, I'm still trying to figure out some stuff about Minkow. Primarily by exactly what route he got into business with one of the five major crime families of New York when he was sixteen, just from the starting point of his garage. Because it does kind of seem to me like there just might be some details missing there.

Also, I find it a little curious that the part of his story that's already been told (ie -- the rise and fall of ZZZZ Best) is such a nearly perfect mirror of the equivalent part of Hughes's story (ie -- the rise of Herbalife and fall of Hughes, although Herbalife itself kept going).

But the thing is that with Hughes, you can kind of see where he came from. I mean, there are probably other players in the picture, too, but there are some very strong circumstantial indicators that the entire thing had its origins at CEDU.

And I mean besides the self-told part about how he just happened to develop his cold-calling salesmanship skills knocking on doors to sell magazines as part of (purportedly) the school's occasional little fundraising drives or whatever. At the time of his death, both the CEO (Chris Pair) and the marketing director (Michael Rosen) at Herbalife had been with him since his CEDU days, for example. And Rosen was actually the CEDU Head of Fundraising back when Hughes was hawking subscriptions (and probably twelve hours a day in exchange for a bowl of gruel, or something roughly along those lines, assuming the program ran true to form).

So I kind of question how much power or control he ever had. He was a fucked-up kid, and only 24 when he was allegedly inspired by his mom's non-existent losing battle with dieting issues she didn't have to start Herbalife.

Similarly, Minkow doesn't seem very likely to have been the real captain at the healm of ZZZZ. I mean, he was sixteen when he started it, for one thing. And all of twenty-one when the whip came down in '88. Plus, to fast-forward to the more recent past, I very much doubt that he was the only person who made a profit off of shorting Herbalife's stock when The Fraud Institute was targeting it. My guess would be that he was already a water-carrying, fall-taking poster boy for some much bigger and more organized force than himself when he first surfaced. And that he still is today.

Which is also more or less what I think Hughes was.

So it's basically an "[X] is to Minkow as CEDU is to Hughes" kind of a problem, in it's simplest form.

Although there may also be another incomplete sequence in that it's plausible that when the Scieno Feshbach brothers shorted ZZZZ stock, they had some mechanism on their side that functioned the way the Fraud Institute later did when Minkow shorted Herbalife. But I'm putting that to the side for the moment. Because I don't really know what else to do about it, for one thing.

Anyway. I wonder what Minkow's early adolescent influences might have been.

Also, totally keep following the Harkin stuff wherever it takes you. There's more than enough topic for everybody. Plus, it's fascinating. I kind of want to get Minkow out of the way so that I can look at it myself.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:12 am

c2w said:
.......Tom Padgett, per one source, at least, worked for AllState and then Traveller's Insurance before hooking up with ZZZZ. AllState was not totally, but pretty thoroughly, infiltrated regionally by Scientology via, IIRC, Sterling Business Management consultants....


Wait a minute, Allstate again???

(More discussion on Allstate and Scilos here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23333&hilit=Allstate "
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:29 am

On that AIG/Allstate thread, c2w had said:

Right. I guess I should probably have linked to a summary to that effect, in order to make it, um, clear that what I was talking about ain't no small thing. It's far from a unique story, too. The chances that we all do business with Scientology in some form or another are....well, better than 50 percent, at least, I'd say. They're just always popping up all over the vitamins and natural health industry, for example.


Which coincidentally, in looking back, is specifically the spot where I got an added perspective, shall we say, on natural health, which in turn caused me to question Harkin's campaign contributors as soon as I first saw the list this week. And Herbalife isn't the only one like that on his list.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:40 am

Another Times story spurred an FBI investigation of Minkow's link to the Genovese crime family and white separatist movements.


WTF? There's a connection between the two?
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby wintler2 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:26 pm

compared2what? wrote:.. I mean, I'm just reading.

Uh huh, and Rupert Murdoch is 'just' editing. Thanks for sharing, kudo's, etc.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby compared2what? » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:56 pm

chiggerbit wrote:
Another Times story spurred an FBI investigation of Minkow's link to the Genovese crime family and white separatist movements.


WTF? There's a connection between the two?


They might do business sometimes, although the Genovese crime family is not what it once was. Still, it's not like they're selling matches on street corners. So never mind.

But in this particular context, I don't think they're suggesting a link beyond the separate dealings that individuals from both groups had with Minkow in the course of his brief and storied career.

wintler2 wrote:
compared2what? wrote:.. I mean, I'm just reading.

Uh huh, and Rupert Murdoch is 'just' editing. Thanks for sharing, kudo's, etc.


Seriously, it's just amazing how often people mistake us for one another. I'm going to have to start wearing my hair differently or something.
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Re: HerbaLife vs. the Mob, ZZZZ Best, and maybe cults??

Postby Hammer of Los » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:04 am

c2w wrote:
wintler2 wrote:
compared2what wrote:.. I mean, I'm just reading.

Uh huh, and Rupert Murdoch is 'just' editing. Thanks for sharing, kudo's, etc.


Seriously, it's just amazing how often people mistake us for one another. I'm going to have to start wearing my hair differently or something.


:lol:

You do make me chuckle sometimes.
Hammer of Los
 
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