Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:57 am

hava1 wrote:...I think you are , and other are as well, willingly prefer to place "all of them" in one basket, make all israelis one and the same.weve been through that too many times.


Hava, I certainly don't put all Israelis in one basket. I think you are projecting your own feelings on other Israelis whose circumstances are very different from your own. These "dual citizens" all freely and knowingly chose to leave democratic, prosperous countries in order to join the privileged "race" of foreign oppressors in a state predicated on the ongoing destruction and dispossession of their fellow human beings. There's been no indication at all that they have ever had any crisis of conscience, or have at any time been motivated by anything but the most purely and narrowly selfish motives.

I know it's hard for you to understand, but to me, zionism is identical to nazism, with the important distinction that nazism was imposed by brute force on at least 2/3 of all German citizens, who did not vote Hitler into power and who faced arbitrary arrest, torture and even death for themselves and their families if they dared to object or express the slightest opposition to the nazis' agenda. In contrast, we know that as recently as last year, Israeli Jews overwhelmingly, almost unanimously, supported the mass slaughter of a trapped, starving population of refugees in Gaza. This was 2009, in the age of the internet and satellite tv: the sickening images and the screams of the dying and bereaved reached the farthest corners of the planet. "Not knowing" in this case was and continues to be a willful and deliberate act. They are all aware that their Jewish-only homes and neighborhoods are made possible solely by the forcible eviction of the Palestinians from their own homes. Since nearly every Israeli adult is conscripted into the army, many have even witnessed first-hand or participated in such evictions and the associated violence against Palestinian families. The only conclusion possible is that the overwhelming majority of Jewish Israelis not only accept, but actively support the legitimacy of forcing others to pay the price with their flesh and blood and freedom so that Jews can enjoy their racist state.

I have the utmost respect for those few Israelis who choose to openly identify with their Palestinian brothers and sisters, and to demand for them the same rights that Jews expect and demand for themselves, not only in the Judeo-supremacist state, but wherever they live, all over the world. I feel sympathy for Israelis like you, who are trapped and fighting to survive in a crazy system that's been imposed on them, but who haven't allowed that to harden their hearts or kill their conscience. But I don't understand why you insist on presuming the innocence of these "dual citizens", who freely chose to align themselves with the bad guys.

Maybe they did willingly "lend" their identities to the Mossad, and maybe it was stolen from them. But they do know what Israel is and what it does and they still decided to become a part of it, when other alternatives were available. As the saying goes, "if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby hava1 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:12 am

Its the same ol.

I might be projecting some, you do a lot more of that, so...

Individuals have many identities. There is no "profile" for a dual citizen, I would think that if they are such devout ZIonists, they would not maintain their other citizenship. Life is more complex than that. I suspect that at this point, "duals" in Israel are rather more among natives who choose to secure another door, (those who applied in the last decade) than zionist immigrants such as you describe.
In addition, i return to the point, it is more useful for your case to make the distinctions and support israseli rule of law, domestically.
I do have my reservations from Anglo Saxaon immigrants, along your lines, but I discovered that usually we are speaking second generations, those who did not make the decisions themselves. Plus i am more inclined to feel compassion to the dupes.

Finally, i realized that there are several repeating ways to undermine my words ad hominem, "special case" is one of them. I don'[t buy into that anymore.; I demand matter of fact response or none at aqll. The "lumping" and guilt by association that I experienced personally in Canada, led to injustice not only to me, but to the issue at large.
I am content to see that the UK set a higher ground and deal with the boss, not the wretched victims caught in the crossfire, which I think is what you are tryhing to do, by digging into their alleged immigration motives or assigning them dirty motivations, by your porjections.
I suppose that leaves the UK, as always, to set the standards to the "colonies" of sorts.
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby Sounder » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:53 am

well reasoned and charitable response hava1.

hava1 wrote...
Plus i am more inclined to feel compassion to the dupes.


We are all 'dupes' to one degree or another. While pointing out dupedness in others can have a purpose, it may also provide cover for ones own variety of dupieness.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby hava1 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:10 am

On first reading, sounder, your response seemed deep, but on second, i didnt quite see where you are taking us.

I insist on compassion, regardless and especially if it extends to my own shortcomings.

But if u see some dupiness i am blind to, in myself this very moment, be direct and dont beat around the bush.

-0-
I find it repulsive, to pray or pick on the weak. I think Alice was unintentionally going there,and picking the speculative souls of victims, to wash her hands, and probably for some reason we shall not know she feels the need.

It is easier to rationalize your own injustices, by attaching guilt to victims, by virtue of "who they are and what are they doing there anyway". I have to say that even the "special case" i receive gracefully, would not suffice to get me off the gallows, in fact it didnt. Based on same.
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:31 am

hava wrote:I suspect that at this point, "duals" in Israel are rather more among natives who choose to secure another door, (those who applied in the last decade) than zionist immigrants such as you describe.


See, I don't get how that makes them more sympathetic. If some guy in Britain decides that in order to feel secure it's a good idea for him to go to someone else's country and steal someone else's home, he may be crazy or evil; it doesn't make him a good guy in my book. Actually, it makes him a racist, no less than the nazis who felt that 'aryans' had the 'right' to steal whatever they needed from the untermenschen.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby 17breezes » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:52 am

"to me, zionism is identical to nazism"

:roll: :woot:

Sounds to me like Zionists have eaten your brain.
"Go back to Auschwitz" Humanitarian peace activists, 2010.
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby Sounder » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:27 am

hava1 wrote....
But if u see some dupiness i am blind to, in myself this very moment, be direct and dont beat around the bush.

No, no, nothing in particular, and very seldom would I make things personal anyway.

hava1 wrote...
I find it repulsive, to pray or pick on the weak. I think Alice was unintentionally going there,and picking the speculative souls of victims, to wash her hands, and probably for some reason we shall not know she feels the need.

I also, and while I love Alice's input, in this case the rhetoric seems to go too far, (so I piped up.)
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:04 am

Sounder wrote:hava1 wrote....
But if u see some dupiness i am blind to, in myself this very moment, be direct and dont beat around the bush.

No, no, nothing in particular, and very seldom would I make things personal anyway.

hava1 wrote...
I find it repulsive, to pray or pick on the weak. I think Alice was unintentionally going there,and picking the speculative souls of victims, to wash her hands, and probably for some reason we shall not know she feels the need.

I also, and while I love Alice's input, in this case the rhetoric seems to go too far, (so I piped up.)


All I'm saying is:

1) There's no reason to assume that they were unwitting "dupes" just because they say they are, after their names and real identities were publicized. Why would the Mossad "steal" identities when it would be so easy, and make so much more sense to "borrow" them from willing lenders?

2) These are citizens of democratic, prosperous countries who looked at Israel and said, "What a swell place! Home demolitions, mass murder of women and children, apartheid laws, a brutal racist occupation, colonies and even roads on stolen land for Jews only. Now that's a homeland!" And they packed up and moved there. They are not my idea of 'victims', even if they were shocked, shocked! to discover that there's a price, even for Chosen Ones.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Britain to expel Mossad's man in London

Postby hava1 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:45 am

seems we are hitting the same rock. that kind of discussion is not interesting, to me. but feel free...just that i dont want to feed that kind of trollish jive.
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