Catch 'em Young: AIPAC Subversion of the USG

[Simulist]

Maybe you have so many other performing seals in your life that you imagine everybody is one. I post what I want to post, think what I want to think when I want to think it. Your desires mean nothing to me. I also never comply with antagonists. Try some niceness next time and I'll consider it.

17breezes, I think we would all quite naturally be interested in whatever criticisms of Israel you think are actually legitimate.

Would you mind jotting down a couple, please?

[MacCruiskeen]

My mean, nasty, evil, intolerable challenge to poor innocent 17Breezes:

There are lots; indeed, a multitude of ways to criticize Zionism, Israel, whatever without having to stoop to the levels Alice seems to prefer. More power to those legitimate critics.

Why not stretch your mind and attempt some of that legitimate criticism yourself, Mr. Breezes? Please. I'm sure many people would be very interested to see it, always presuming you're not bluffing.

If that's too much for you, and of course it will be (you never, ever, go beyond four lines of your own - maybe you suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), then post, say, three examples of the kind of "criticism of Israel" you regard as "legitimate". Give us links to those "legitimate critics" to whom you would grant "more power".

Just three will do, if you can't manage words of your own. Regard it as a sporting challenge. It will be nice to see the results of your best and most honest efforts here, on the record.

His reply:

Maybe you have so many other performing seals in your life that you imagine everybody is one. I post what I want to post, think what I want to think when I want to think it. Your desires mean nothing to me. I also never comply with antagonists. Try some niceness next time and I'll consider it.

Your grade, Mr. Breezes: 0%. With grim predictability you fail the test, because you simply refuse to take it. (And no, "Everybody hates me" is not an acceptable excuse.)

But don't worry about it, Breezy: you have a bright future as student president - and beyond. Where there's willingness, there's a way. After all, dumbness, deviousness and dishonesty never stopped George W. making it all the way to the top. On the contrary.

[surfaceskimmer]

I've been busy over the last day or so watching gun-turret camera videos and reading about three-headed babies and how there will be no prosecution of the AIG entanglement and how the POTUS left a loophole for the nuking of Iran (but failed to mention the non-proliferation gaps of certain entities), so I have "no need to discuss much".

The history of the national security state formation in the US is well-documented... who, how, what .. and the history since its formation, while purposefully clouded by disinformation and the wall of secrecy, is also well documented. These games, charades, walls, exclusionary media coverage, and smoke-screens get penetrated eventually; the Internet has hastened our ability.

More and more people are waking up to what has gone down, and what is going down.

Just drop off the key, Lee, and set yourself free.

[JackRiddler]

(Jack, I will get back to you later. Pushed for time right now. Just one question: There is a slight difference between that lavish extravaganza and anything The Palestinian Lobby is able to organise among American students - yes?)

What's the point of this question? Obviously.

Yet another reason that the US Arab lobby does not engage in mouth-frothing rhetoric about the evil Eternal "Zionist" who controls all and harms everyone. Unlike Alice, they know not to shoot themselves in the head as their first move. Not that it's only a strategic restraint on their part - they are also aware that it's wrong.

I have yet to see a national group, ethnicity or any committed group of ideologists in the US who did not play the game of lobbying and campus recruitment and misinformation and subversion PR and and media manipulation and attacking their opponents to the maximum extent that their own money and resources allow, insofar as they perceive a need. Repeat, because that's very important: insofar as they perceive a need. Anti-Castro Cubans perceive a need, so they're very organized politically, play dirty, accuse everyone against them of Communist sympathies, and have influenced US policy for 50 years; the gradual changes underway are due entirely to a new generation who are tired of not being able even to travel to Cuba. Turks and Armenians, Tibetans and Chinese of different factions, they perceive needs and they're quite active. Irish and Italians perceive less of a need nowadays, so they're less mobilized. All have at times influenced US foreign policy, and would have liked to have done better. Some, like the Turkish lobby in Sibel Edmonds' telling, have resorted to treasonous means.

When it's not treason, I don't even think it's such a terrible thing. I'm not of the school that says, "We're all Americans - There is an AMERICAN interest and all others are subordinate." The foreign policy influence of immigrant and foreign populations resident in the US on balance injects views of the world that the solipsistic and "false unity" mentality would exclude.

Fundamentalist maniacs perceive a huge need.

The National Security State with the Pentagon and intel agencies at its heart has perceived the greatest need of all and has the biggest resources, so they're permanently running (mostly illegal, if the law applied to them) media ops. Their reach dwarfs everybody's. The next war is always coming and our young people can serve their country by signing up for it.

The pro-Israel lobby is obviously very successful at this game. They've made promiscuous use of the "anti-Semitic" slur and a kind of church out of the Nazi holocaust. But their success is not evidence of a special evil that trumps all others, or that they are the commanding unit of the US government. It's like claiming the Yankees (winners of the most baseball championships) wrote the rules of baseball.

That their cause is wrong, and that their avatar nation is an aggressor against its neighbors and resident populations, should be reason enough to criticize them, without designating them a special devil unlike any other. I suspect almost everyone here, including myself, would immediately end all US aid to Israel, if it were within our power, and then do whatever was possible to see peace in a single, disarmed state with equal rights for all its residents (and the Costa Rica model for every state in that region and the world).

Alice however writes more like she'd like to see all Jews expelled from Palestine the next day. Or perhaps be forced to trade which side of the wall they're on.

Nordic, in the past I've had people take articles of mine, remove my byline and stick misleading headlines on them. Why did this bother me? After all, it was still 99 percent stuff I could agree with!

The point being, poison is still poison even if the fatal dose is counted in parts per million.

[17breezes]

My mean, nasty, evil, intolerable challenge to poor innocent 17Breezes:

There are lots; indeed, a multitude of ways to criticize Zionism, Israel, whatever without having to stoop to the levels Alice seems to prefer. More power to those legitimate critics.

Why not stretch your mind and attempt some of that legitimate criticism yourself, Mr. Breezes? Please. I'm sure many people would be very interested to see it, always presuming you're not bluffing.

If that's too much for you, and of course it will be (you never, ever, go beyond four lines of your own - maybe you suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), then post, say, three examples of the kind of "criticism of Israel" you regard as "legitimate". Give us links to those "legitimate critics" to whom you would grant "more power".

Just three will do, if you can't manage words of your own. Regard it as a sporting challenge. It will be nice to see the results of your best and most honest efforts here, on the record.

His reply:

Maybe you have so many other performing seals in your life that you imagine everybody is one. I post what I want to post, think what I want to think when I want to think it. Your desires mean nothing to me. I also never comply with antagonists. Try some niceness next time and I'll consider it.

Your grade, Mr. Breezes: 0%. With grim predictability you fail the test, because you simply refuse to take it. (And no, "Everybody hates me" is not an acceptable excuse.)

But don't worry about it, Breezy: you have a bright future as student president - and beyond. Where there's willingness, there's a way. After all, dumbness, deviousness and dishonesty never stopped George W. making it all the way to the top. On the contrary.

I'm not sure where you get the "everybody hates me," thing. Are you medicated? Hear voices? And where you get the idea that YOU can "test," me makes me wonder just how bad your narcissism is. You really should shed some of that ego.

[AlicetheKurious]

Information contained in the OP:

First, AIPAC, a very powerful and wealthy organization that aggressively imposes a very costly allegiance to a foreign state on American citizens, an organization, moreover, that has been implicated in espionage on behalf of said foreign country, is recruiting agents to promote its agenda among American college and high-school students.

Second, a top official of this organization has explicitly said that AIPAC operates by getting pro-Israelis to "take over" the government in Washington to ensure that it complies with the zionist agenda. It seemed pretty unambiguous to me, but maybe you, Jack, have another interpretation for what he said:

We're going to make sure that pro-Israel students take over the student government and reverse the vote. This is how AIPAC operates in our nation's capital.

Clearly your priorities compel you to attack the messenger rather than to allow others to think about the grave implications of this rather amazing statement, which was made by an agent of Israel, not by a Cuban or Chinese or Irish or Armenian or Turk or some guy representing Bora Bora. When we see a yearly parade of America's leaders and aspiring leaders groveling before any other countries' lobbyists; when we hear them raving in a cold sweat about their "eternal, unbreakable" allegiance to a foreign state; when your president, who avoided his own country's draft, scandalously claims that he would grab a gun and rush to fight on behalf of any of those foreign states; when those countries' spies are promoted to the highest levels in your government and security establishment; when your Pentagon permits other countries' foreign agents to infiltrate its most sensitive facilities through lucrative contracts and repeatedly steal advanced and expensive technology; when your media acts as an orwellian Ministry of Propaganda for any other foreign state; when your own government allows your tax money to be used to subsidize racist, illegal colonies for settlers in a foreign land while millions of Americans are losing their homes; when your representatives vote to send billions in economic aid to any other country whose (Jewish) citizens enjoy socialized health-care and other services of which American citizens can only dream; your attempt to equate AIPAC and the rest of the zionist power configuration with any other "lobby group" won't seem quite so desperate.

No other group does these things! No one is as evil and persistent; it's always and only the "Zionists" we are called upon to hate.

No, actually it's always and only the Nazis that we are called upon to hate, even when there are none around, and even when the subject is another ugly ideology that justifies genocide and ethnic cleansing and any and all other crimes against humanity to acquire lebensraum for a self-declared Master Race/Chosen People, based on racist mumbo-jumbo.

As for that Galbraith thread, where you claim I "went crazy": I just took the time to review it, and must have missed that part. Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... 1f888c9ab2

So. Where did I go crazy, exactly? Is it where I wiped the floor with that silly Danse article you kept posting over and over, in thread after thread? (Talk about "crazy").

Ironically writings like Alice's help the AIPAC propaganda by creating the impression Jews per se are under attack from fanatic anti-Semites, and therefore have a right to adopt any means in self defense. If Americans were to get unfiltered, sober news from Palestine (and about AIPAC's genuinely reprehensible activities in the US), that might move them to finally curb the vicious satrapy set up in Tel Aviv with their money on behalf of the US empire's self-perceived strategic interests. If they read Alice's writings, which barely differ from xymphora's or much of what can be found on Sortm55fonrt, they'll instead see a confirmation that Jews are under attack as Jews, and at best conclude (as I've heard often enough) that "those people are just going to always hate each other and I don't care." Unless they're Jewish, in which case they might feel they need to help AIPAC! Rhetoric like Alice's is an excuse not to care that Jews are not under attack and that Israel is the imperial power and the occupier dealing out 99 percent of the violence in Palestine, since "those people" just want the Jews dead.

That's rich. It is those who parrot the zionist line that Jewish and zionist are interchangeable words, and that to reject the zionist ideology and practise is "anti-semitic" who "help the AIPAC propaganda" (because that is the AIPAC propaganda), not those who know the difference between a racist and demonstrably murderous and destructive political ideology, and a spiritual tradition followed by people with all kinds of political views. According to your own bizarre logic, opposing white supremacy makes you a hater of white people and opposing the nazi ideology makes you a hater of Germans. And in fact, the apologists of both those ugly ideologies have tried to use that very same logic and maybe it worked, for a while, until the atrocities became too sickening and too difficult to ignore. One would think we'd have reached that point a long time and many innocent victims ago.

[Nordic]

I'm not sure where you get the "everybody hates me," thing. Are you medicated? Hear voices? And where you get the idea that YOU can "test," me makes me wonder just how bad your narcissism is. You really should shed some of that ego.

I hate you. I'll freely admit it. I hate you and everybody like you. All you do is disrupt. You are nothing but a troll, and your agenda is to make these topics too "inflammatory" so that the very subject will be banned from the site.

Like it is at so many sites.

You offer nothing. Nothing. Except insults, and shit.

Why are you here?

You never answer that.

And we already know the answer anyway.

[17breezes]

I'm not sure where you get the "everybody hates me," thing. Are you medicated? Hear voices? And where you get the idea that YOU can "test," me makes me wonder just how bad your narcissism is. You really should shed some of that ego.

I hate you. I'll freely admit it. I hate you and everybody like you. All you do is disrupt. You are nothing but a troll, and your agenda is to make these topics too "inflammatory" so that the very subject will be banned from the site.

Like it is at so many sites.

You offer nothing. Nothing. Except insults, and shit.

Why are you here?

You never answer that.

And we already know the answer anyway.

Well, I don't hate you. But I do enjoy at those here who think it's their way or the highway. And try to remember it's not me who has had warnings-it's you. Maybe your hate has a big part to do with that. I'm pretty sure Jeff doesn't want this place to be a hate site.

[Nordic]

I'm pretty sure Jeff doesn't want this place to be a hate site.

Then you should leave.

You are here only to spread hate, and to instigate it.

[17breezes]

I'm pretty sure Jeff doesn't want this place to be a hate site.

Then you should leave.

You are here only to spread hate, and to instigate it.

I'm not the one who said "I hate you." I spread NO hate. Try anger management classes perhaps.

[AlicetheKurious]

I just caught this:

Funny how people tend to attack Alice rather than the content of what she posts.

Because of what JackR said. Sadly, messengers matter, and for all the information Alice posts she does tend to fall into narratives about Wandering Jews that violate all manner of litmus test.

First, JackRiddler babbling about "Eternal Jews" and now nathan jumps in with "Wandering Jews"??!! You guys seem to be listening to voices in your head and attributing what they say to me. How about this 'litmus test': if you can't directly quote me, but feel compelled to make stuff up to back up your nasty insinuations, then you're revealing far more about your own motivations than you are about mine. Ok? Ok.

As for 17breezes:

I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest.
-Alexandre Dumas (1802-1870)

[17breezes]

For someone who demands niceness you sure do act like a cunt.

Perhaps your eyes are simply painted on. I have demanded nothing from anyone. I may have asked but you feel some need to call that a "demand." I would expect no less from someone who would use the c word on a board where females post.

As well, per Jeff's rules

Please refrain from directing obscenities towards other board members in the body of the post.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26112

[17breezes]

I just caught this:

Funny how people tend to attack Alice rather than the content of what she posts.

Because of what JackR said. Sadly, messengers matter, and for all the information Alice posts she does tend to fall into narratives about Wandering Jews that violate all manner of litmus test.

First, JackRiddler babbling about "Eternal Jews" and now nathan jumps in with "Wandering Jews"??!! You guys seem to be listening to voices in your head and attributing what they say to me. How about this 'litmus test': if you can't directly quote me, but feel compelled to make stuff up to back up your nasty insinuations, then you're revealing far more about your own motivations than you are about mine. Ok? Ok.

As for 17breezes:

I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest.
-Alexandre Dumas (1802-1870)

That dog don't hunt no more you poor hate filled person.

[17breezes]

So 17wheezes, why don't you explain why you're here, other than the obvious, i.e. trolling, instigating hatred and attacking posters that you don't like.

You have failed to do that and no matter how many times people ask you to, you ignore them, feign innocence, and continue to act like, yes, a cunt.

So how 'bout it.

Obvious? Yeah, I'm gonna get down with you following that. NOT!!!!

I would also remind you of Jeff's posting rules about

"Please refrain from directing obscenities towards other board members in the body of the post."

Your learning curve needs a tune-up.

[barracuda]

winsomecowboy and Nordic, the use of the "c" word regarding another poster is unacceptable here. Edit your posts or I will.

Later that day... You took too long, and I removed them both. Don't do that again, er, gentlemen.