Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Simulist » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:52 pm

Blue wrote:
sfnate wrote:...the Singularity also offers a modern-day, quasi-religious answer

"Quasi" religious? How about full-on, bullgoose mechno-mysticism, coupled with a technocratic creed that demands complete obeisance from those consumers who are too sophisticated and hip for the caveman paleo-religions but total suckers for the Big Tent Snakes & Tongues Revival called Google-palooza?

So watch out for the missionaries knocking on your door with this new gospel. Their's is a false religion, same as all the others that promise you resurrection in return for your obedience and generous tithes to the Church.

I so agree, sfnate. The Singularity Wishers are no different than the Rapture Wishers.

Recently found an interesting book at the library you might enjoy. "You Are Not A Gadget: A Manifesto" by Jaron Lanier. Very interesting insight about the internet and humans.

I agree with both of you completely.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Jeff » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:13 pm

I'm touching on this in a forthcoming - really - blog post.


...

The Singularity is near, or near enough, and the transhumanists may yet have their abiotic rapture. And I'll hand it to them, there's a dark logic to it. Perhaps the only way to successfully adapt to a murdered planet is to kill yourself. "If you draw the timelines," said futurologist Ian Pearson, "realistically by 2050 we would expect to be able to download your mind into a machine, so when you die it's not a major career problem." (Pearson is sometimes credited with the invention of that fouler of distinction between home and office, text messaging, so I take no comfort in the prospect that death itself need not encumber job performance. Even though pensionable age and benefits have been vindictively rolling back, there was always at least the peace of the grave.) Technology won't revitalize the world that it has destroyed, in part because the better of it is commanded by sociopaths, but it may be their anti-lifeboat into post-organic existence. And by 2050 they may not need to travel all the way to Titan to sail on methane seas.

Bio-luddites, like the shaman cultivating plant wisdom, would never embark on that voyage, and the greater bio-mass of our species need not apply. But that’s no insurance against the harvesting of some valuable, stubborn minds to adorn the trans-humanists’ Cold Heaven. If the consciousnesses of Shakespeare and Beethoven could have been uploaded and preserved, wouldn’t it be a crime against post-humanity to let them perish and decay like common flesh? In the event of compulsory afterlife, the only cause left will be the right to truly die.

In his paper “Religious Motifs in Technological Poshumanism,” Michael E Zimmerman writes:

For Singularity posthumans to be possible, many present and future humans might have to pay a very steep cost. In the name of a glorious posthuman future, one can imagine fanatical posthumanists justifying the extinction of mythic-Christian, post-Christian, and humanistic ideals such as individual liberty, self-realization, and outmoded personal and public morality…. If history is written by the victors, then the coming superhumans will surely find a way to justify the suffering involved in their origin, particularly given that those who suffered (that is, we humans) were not very evolved to begin with.

Zimmerman acknowledges that posthumanists recognize the intrinsic danger of their project, and wonders therefore why the rush towards its completion. “One answer,” he writes, “is that Earth’s biosphere is imperiled…. Technological posthumans would not be biologically based…thereby saving self-conscious life from extinction.”

Oil and gas are euphemisms, like poultry and pork, that engender detachment regarding the objects of our consumption. But fossil fuel deposits are giant graveyards, and the Gulf of Mexico is drowning in a black tide of undead biology....
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Blue » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:32 pm

Same old song and dance since humans have been aware of their mortality.

It's called Rapture by the evangelical Christians.
It's called Ascension by the New Agers and Ufologists.
And
It's called Singularity by the computer geeks.

Now, the Singularity WILL happen where biology and technology merge and create something new and different.

But Damn, why do they seem so anxious to twitter and tweet about how great it will be to be entwined in the net of cold numbers?

Does anyone remember The Borg?

So much of human communication cannot be replicated by a machine. Zeros and Ones cannot recreate Debussey or Chagall.

I choose to remain Human.
User avatar
Blue
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Jeff » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:03 pm

User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:12 pm

Image

(created a few years ago for shits & giggles - nothing serious)
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby slomo » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:16 pm

Jeff wrote:

This must be ironic. I mean, with the creepy robotic voice and all.

I love how "Luddite" becomes conflated with "fear and cowardice", with only superficial understanding of the concerns of neo-Luddites, "bio-Luddites", and indeed the original Luddites themselves. In particular, enthusiasts of the irresponsible proliferation of technology willfully ignore the fact that the original Luddite movement was a labor movement with legitimate concerns about the economic effects new proposed technology.

You see the same thing with Monsanto apologists: the recurrent appeal to increased yields, and willful denial and silence about the well-documented legal predation not to mention the downstream vulnerabilities of monoculture.
User avatar
slomo
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:42 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Alaya » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:26 pm

About the X File episode "Kill Switch'.


User avatar
Alaya
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby barracuda » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:38 am

Blue wrote:I choose to remain Human.


That's an easy choice to make when only one side of the dichotomy has any availability. I guess I understand why everyone is so anti-transhumanist around here: the elite, monied lifestyle it epitomises; the utter disregard for democratic idealisms; the abandonment of the joy of the flesh it makes assumptions of; the lack of appreciation for death as a part of life consisting of its own grand apotheosis. But as a pragmatic reality of modern living, can you really have such aversion to the appurtenances it entails?

Your connection to the network has already sucked large segments of your personality to be filed into the server fields as you sit before the machine entranced and happy with the resulting profile you've self-uploaded it behind. Your symbiosis with any number of other, globally interlaced machine networks has been complete virtually since you were moved into the incubation chamber at the automated midwife of your birth hospital. How many of you have lived your whole life with a machine attached to your face for sight improvement, or any of the other host/parasite relationships you've formed with your car, your office chair, or your coffee maker? You already have embraced halfway a privileged tenancy of the machine-based lifestyle. but the thought of a mere data dump to some yet-to-be-constructed architechture is routinely rejected around here as the personalised mirror-fascism of a dying persona grieving over his reflection in the water of a polluted lake. At this point, the BrinBot seems like a complete kludge anyway.

I'm as disgusted by the whole thing as anyone here for any number of the reasons enumerated, and more - especially for the sheer medicinal intrusiveness of the conjectured procedure itself. But I'm not going to kid myself and give myself the proud title of Luddite without coming to terms with the fact that in doing so I've essentially watered the word and it's connotations down to nothingness without taking responsibility for my actions before this keyboard and this GUI. I love my computers. Especially this one. It's pretty.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:20 am



Freewill -- Rush

There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance

A planet of play things
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
'The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign...'
Blame is better to give than receive

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill

There are those who think
That they were dealt a losing hand
The cards were stacked against them
They weren't born in Lotusland

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate
Kicked in the face
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:56 am

Well over a dozen years ago I began to describe myself as a techno-luddite. At the time, I had never heard the word coined by anyone before. Not that I'm laying claim to it or anything.

I still don't have a mobile phone or a car. I don't want either. And you can stuff your ipod.

But I love my internet. It's like a vast library containing the entire sum of human knowledge, mixed in with several times the sum of human stupidity. Once I learn to sort the wheat from the chaff I shall be omniscient!

And how am I going to find out what happens when I die if they make me live forever?

Besides which, after all of this, I'm gonna need a good long lie down.
Hammer of Los
 
Posts: 3309
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Nordic » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:43 am

Hammer of Los wrote: And you can stuff your ipod.


I have to say ipods are pretty great. I got a hand me down (actually a hand me up) from my stepdaughter as my first and only ipod. And it's loaded up with Beethoven and Led Zep and Nina Simone and all kinds of shit. This tiny little thing that I can stick in my shirt pocket, loaded with great music, it's just hard to beat that.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby Sounder » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:26 am

Consciousness is not and can never be merely a set of data points.

Only naive materialists could think of such a thing.

Consciousness results through resonance and interplay between manifest and pre-manifest elements of reality, while data sets have only to do with the manifest aspect of existence.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby slomo » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:47 am

barracuda wrote:
Blue wrote:I choose to remain Human.


That's an easy choice to make when only one side of the dichotomy has any availability. I guess I understand why everyone is so anti-transhumanist around here: the elite, monied lifestyle it epitomises; the utter disregard for democratic idealisms; the abandonment of the joy of the flesh it makes assumptions of; the lack of appreciation for death as a part of life consisting of its own grand apotheosis. But as a pragmatic reality of modern living, can you really have such aversion to the appurtenances it entails?

Your connection to the network has already sucked large segments of your personality to be filed into the server fields as you sit before the machine entranced and happy with the resulting profile you've self-uploaded it behind. Your symbiosis with any number of other, globally interlaced machine networks has been complete virtually since you were moved into the incubation chamber at the automated midwife of your birth hospital. How many of you have lived your whole life with a machine attached to your face for sight improvement, or any of the other host/parasite relationships you've formed with your car, your office chair, or your coffee maker? You already have embraced halfway a privileged tenancy of the machine-based lifestyle. but the thought of a mere data dump to some yet-to-be-constructed architechture is routinely rejected around here as the personalised mirror-fascism of a dying persona grieving over his reflection in the water of a polluted lake. At this point, the BrinBot seems like a complete kludge anyway.

I'm as disgusted by the whole thing as anyone here for any number of the reasons enumerated, and more - especially for the sheer medicinal intrusiveness of the conjectured procedure itself. But I'm not going to kid myself and give myself the proud title of Luddite without coming to terms with the fact that in doing so I've essentially watered the word and it's connotations down to nothingness without taking responsibility for my actions before this keyboard and this GUI. I love my computers. Especially this one. It's pretty.


I very much agree. 21st Century middle-class Westerners are already cyborgs, part machine to a very significant degree.

I just read an essay written by an old friend from high school, who (after a series of twists and turns in her life) ended up marrying an Athabascan and living as close to a traditional Athabascan lifestyle as possible in the 21st Century. Of everybody I know, in person or online, she is probably the only one who could actually be entirely self-sufficient if pressed to do so. But even her son has an iTouch!
User avatar
slomo
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:42 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby justdrew » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:31 am

I don't care for this site's take on anthropic global warming but it's got some good qualities.
follow the ink to original story for embedded links...

Singularity Backlash

In the past decade many futurists have embraced the concept that we are approaching a 'Technological Singularity' - a point at which technological development reaches a stage where machine intelligence surpasses current human potential, Singularityand being able to improve upon itself this intelligence grows exponentially, thus changing civilisation rapidly and irrevocably into a state which we probably cannot even conceive. In the words of mathematician and author Vernor Vinge, "Within thirty years, we will have the technological means to create superhuman intelligence. Shortly thereafter, the human era will be ended."

Last week The New York Times ran an article about the new 'Singularity University', at which 'students' recently gathered for a nine-day, $15,000 course (there is also a separate 10-week 'graduate' course for $25,000). One of the more interesting facets of the article - though only touched on briefly - is the 'techno-Utopianism' that permeates the thinking of those involved:

Both courses include face time with leading thinkers in the areas of nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, energy, biotech, robotics and computing.

On a more millennialist and provocative note, the Singularity also offers a modern-day, quasi-religious answer to the Fountain of Youth by affirming the notion that, yes indeed, humans — or at least something derived from them — can have it all.

“We will transcend all of the limitations of our biology,” says Raymond Kurzweil, the inventor and businessman who is the Singularity’s most ubiquitous spokesman and boasts that he intends to live for hundreds of years and resurrect the dead, including his own father. “That is what it means to be human — to extend who we are.”

I find the idea of the 'Singularity' both intriguing and also frightening - it's the stuff good science fiction novels are made of, and I think many of the arguments for and against are more a matter of personal moral judgement than objective debate.

The criticism I do have is more reserved for the plausibility of a Singularity. Firstly, I'd have to say that I don't believe technology is advancing at the rate that the likes of Ray Kurzweil say it is...certainly, while there have been significant advances in the last decade, I don't think we have seen anywhere near the advance that the Singularity has predicted via Moore's Law (and it's worth noting that Kevin Moore is a skeptic of an imminent singularity).

Secondly, there is the tricky question of intelligence vs consciousness. While Ray Kurzweil may think he'll be downloading his consciousness within a couple of decades to make himself immortal, I'm not sure many consciousness researchers would feel the same. For all the talk about finding neural correlates for various experiences and emotions, the 'hard problem' remains.

Here we can find signs of what I think is the inception of a materialist religion (of sorts), replete with charismatic leaders and transcendence of death. The latter perhaps is a driving force - without the 'crutch' of a religious belief in an afterlife, the Singularity becomes the salvation of the materialist facing their own mortality (this certainly seems to be how it is in Kurzweil's case). An interesting bit of speculation might be to consider the (fringe science) possibility that consciousness lies beyond the brain (a la transmission theory), and that it not only survives death, but is in fact set free from the body by the experience. To borrow an analogy from the mystical literature, could 'Singulatarians' in fact be the equivalent of a caterpillar desperately trying not to be become a butterfly?

The religious parallels in the Singularity movement are, however, not going unnoticed. In the wake of the NYT article, respected science writer John Horgan has responded with a scathing attack on 'Kurzweil's cult' in an opinion piece for Scientific American. At Biopolitical Times, Pete Shanks suggests that techno-Utopians revise their history for important lessons, in his article "A Singular Kind of Eugenics". And our good friend Alan Boyle has commented at Cosmic Log that while "it's nice to have such optimism in technology, but there's also something oddly off-putting about all this... It's the same spidey-sense tingle I get about Nietzschean supermanism and Scientology."

It's a fascinating topic, and one that will only become more prominent as the years go by. What do you think - is the Singularity imminent? And is it a good idea? Add a comment below, and/or vote on our new poll on the front page.


I hate to bring up Star Trek but... think about the Borg's methodology... if they had just showed up now, prettied themselves up a bit and announced free immortality, people would volunteer for assimilation.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Merely Human? That’s So Yesterday

Postby barracuda » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:06 pm

Yeah, the Borg just weren't quite good looking enough, were they? Though I'll admit to having a bit of a thing for the Queen.

Image

She's pretty hot when she gets her head together.

But my understanding of the Singularity is that it's less something you sign up for down at the local assimilation center and more something that happens beyond anyone's control, like the flash epidemic prefigured by the Timewave hypothesis. To borrow and extend a metaphor from Hugh, it begins as a mist, then becomes a fog, a rainstorm, and finally a tsunami, the finale occuring with blurring rapidity once the first machine becomes conscious and sets forth to make a smarter self. It is supposed to have an aire of inevitability to it, right, based as it is, essentially, on Moore's Law?
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 158 guests