Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Simulist » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:00 pm

slomo wrote:
Simulist wrote:
slomo wrote:
Simulist wrote:Sinead O'Connor is doing the very thing here that the churchmen she (rightly) criticizes have done for centuries: distorting what is seen to be a smaller truth in service to what appears to them to be a greater ideal.

This leads only to confusion, and does not serve the truth in any way.

I actually don't view this as a distortion when taken in an even wider context: one where ordinary human behaviors or minor weaknesses are characterized by the Church as absolute evil, while pedophilia is something that can be excused on morally relativistic grounds.

Official Roman Catholic theology (and theological practice) is unimaginably fucked, even at its best. This is one incarnation of its rank dishonesty and hypocrisy.

I don't think Sinead O'Connor is doing her truly just cause any favors by inserting words into a quote by an opponent; she will only appear to discredit herself, which would be unfortunate since "in an even wider context" she is on the side of right.

Fair enough.

From a personal, moral perspective, I actually care minimally to vanishingly about what the Pope, or the Church, has to say about anything, since I view them as the epitome of moral corruption. However, they do still wield some political and social influence, and for that reason I applaud those who tirelessly challenge them.

I couldn't possibly agree more. And when people do challenge them, then I encourage those people to be extremely careful in how they go about it, since the "brood of vipers" they're challenging have the wile of snakes.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Nordic » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:06 pm

This shouldn't be about Sinead.

This is about the Pope blaming the crimes of his priests on "liberals".

He's gone all Rush Limbaugh on us.

It was those liberal 70's! Haven't you seen Forrest Gump?
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:59 pm

Jeff wrote:
The Pope played a leading role in a systematic cover-up of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic priests, according to a shocking documentary to be screened by the BBC tonight.

In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.

The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.


Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'

Alice, the preponderance of Ratzinger's actions and inactions suggest to me that O'Connor has asked good questions.


I'm no fan of any religious or spiritual organization claiming to represent God on earth, since this sort of thing carries a formidable temptation to indulge in hubris and self-deception. Also, we know that pedophiles deliberately seek access to vulnerable children and that all trusted religious organizations whose clerics engage in social and spiritual community work provide an attractive hunting ground for these predators.

Few religious institutions on earth command the respect and trust and sheer weight that the Catholic Church does, thanks to the dedication and self-sacrifice and courage and faith and humility of its millions of priests and nuns and lay-people and others who have devoted their lives to serving others and God. In fact, it's the very respect and trust inspired by so many of these good people that the predators exploit. So it's not only been proven, over and over, that there are priests who exploit their position to abuse children and other vulnerable people, but it makes sense that there would be.

Similarly, the pattern of religious superiors covering up sexual abuse and simply transferring or hiding away abusers is one that is identical across all religious organization that I'm aware of, regardless of the specific religion or sect involved. Driven by ambition, fear of scandal, ignorance and incompetence or the urge to stick their head in the sand and hope it will all go away, these superiors act more like corrupt corporate managers or politicians than like the spiritual guides they are supposed to be. By acting like craven idiots, they've betrayed the majority who have served God and man faithfully and selflessly.

That being said, I'm not in a position to evaluate the quality of the specific evidence cited by the the BBC report that Ratzinger actively led the cover-up as it claims. It seems to rest on a particular document that "was regarded as so secret that it came with instructions that bishops had to keep it locked in a safe at all times." If someone's seen the BBC documentary, I'd be interested to know whether they showed the document itself and whether and how its authenticity has been verified. If it turns out to be true, then Ratzinger and any other guilty individuals should be held accountable rather than ascribing collective guilt to the millions of good people, some of them true heroes, who make up the Church.

Disclosure: I don't trust the BBC or much of the mainstream media to be honest and impartial and not have a hidden, probably nefarious, agenda. And I'm not comfortable with the hostile, massive media campaign that appears to be targeting the Catholic Church as a whole and unjustly tainting everyone associated with it rather than specific individuals or systemic vulnerabilities.

I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater, although in my opinion the Church should jettison the vestiges of its imperialist past, including all its secrets and the centuries of worldly crap that's accumulated in its basements and attics and become what it says it is and what it can be, because the world does need that, very much.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Jeff » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:00 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater


As would Sinead O'Connor. The church is another molested child.

From September:

I'm still trying to work out her position – she loves God, but despises Catholicism? She shakes her head. "No, what I think is wrong is that the people running the show are misrepresenting what Catholicism actually is ... what I'm talking about is the highest echelons of the Vatican't as I call it."

The Vatican't? She grins. "Yes, as in they can't admit anything, they can't stand up for anything." Where to start? Women priests, homosexuals, contraception and, of course, child sex abuse. "You can go back centuries, but the way they've behaved just in the last 20 years, over this issue of sexual abuse, shows they don't give a shit. They feel untouchable. And to me it seems they don't believe in God at all. Because if you did believe you couldn't stand in front of that spirit covering up and moving priests and doctoring reports to psychiatrists and not telling them there was a suspicion of abuse, you just couldn't do that."

She quotes any number of documents and papal decrees verbatim at me, hands me copies, insisting I doublecheck everything she says. You could imagine her in court, prosecuting the Vatican. She gives me a potted history of clerical child sex abuse – how it can be traced back to AD 320, how the first official complaint was made in 1917, the first edict was issued from the Vatican in 1922 stating that any complaints of abuse had to be silenced under pain of excommunication, how the first centre for paedophile priests was opened in 1940, how the original edict was reissued in 1962. "So they knew about it all right.

What shocks her as much as the abuse is the manner in which the Vatican claimed ignorance and suggested it is also a victim. In April, the pope's personal preacher Raniero Cantalamessa compared the attack on the Catholic church with the Nazi persecution of the Jews. "That is incendiary," she says. "Quite evil, a fucking disgrace." She is talking calmly, and stops occasionally to sip from a mug, which says: "I feel a sin coming on."

She passes me the 2009 Murphy report into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, which concludes: "The commission has no doubt that clerical child sex abuse was covered up by the archdiocese of Dublin and other church authorities ... The structures and rules of the Catholic church facilitated that cover-up."

So what is the way forward? "OK, the abusive priests have been dealt with and that's very important, but now what has to be dealt with is the criminality of the cover-up." She says it has to go to the very top – after all in 2001, Pope Benedict, as Cardinal Ratzinger, issued an updated edict instructing the world's bishops to silence all abuse allegations or risk being thrown out of the church. "The Vatican is a nest of devils and a haven for criminals. It's evil, the very top of the toppermost is evil."

O'Connor is clear what has to happen – those responsible have to go. "And when all the those guys stand down we should take back the church for us." Would she like to see a democratically elected pope? "Do we need a fucking pope? Why do we need a pope? Christ doesn't need a representative. Ten years from now the church will be nothing resembling what it has been."

O'Connor's anger has always been personal. As a child, she was abused by her mother – her father was only the second man in Ireland to be granted custody of his children. O'Connor, 43, says her mother's behaviour was fashioned by a church that normalised abuse. "People under 40 don't understand what Ireland was like. It was a theocracy, like Iran, slightly less potent but the same situation. The photo of the pope I ripped up was one that had been on my mother's bedroom wall for 25 years. I took it when she died. She learned at school that violence was the way to sort her problems out. These kids were having the shit kicked out of them, and they grew up with the message that this was the way you get people to behave."

Was her mother's violence physical? "Yes, but it was also very sexual. It wasn't like she was having sex with me, but it was sexually abusive violence from when I was very small. It was horrific. I loved my mother but I was terrified of her. I literally pissed my pants if she came near me, but even when she was doing what she did to me I could see this was a soul in torment." She lights a cigarette. "I once won a prize at school for curling up into the smallest ball and the reason I could do that was because I was so used to having the shit kicked out of me." Ultimately, she says, it was the theocracy that led to her beatings that also helped her survive them. "Thank fuck I had a sense of Jesus. When I was lying on the floor having the shit kicked out of me, I'd envision Jesus on the top of some hill on the cross, and the blood would run from Jesus's heart down into mine on the floor and that's how I got through being beaten. I'd concentrate on that image."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... pope-visit
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:03 pm

Stunning. Thank you for this especially, I never knew:

She quotes any number of documents and papal decrees verbatim at me, hands me copies, insisting I doublecheck everything she says. You could imagine her in court, prosecuting the Vatican. She gives me a potted history of clerical child sex abuse – how it can be traced back to AD 320, how the first official complaint was made in 1917, the first edict was issued from the Vatican in 1922 stating that any complaints of abuse had to be silenced under pain of excommunication, how the first centre for paedophile priests was opened in 1940, how the original edict was reissued in 1962. "So they knew about it all right.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Simulist » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:15 pm

She quotes any number of documents and papal decrees verbatim at me, hands me copies, insisting I doublecheck everything she says. You could imagine her in court, prosecuting the Vatican. She gives me a potted history of clerical child sex abuse – how it can be traced back to AD 320, how the first official complaint was made in 1917, the first edict was issued from the Vatican in 1922 stating that any complaints of abuse had to be silenced under pain of excommunication, how the first centre for paedophile priests was opened in 1940, how the original edict was reissued in 1962. "So they knew about it all right.

Jeff, do you — or does anyone else here — have more information on how "clerical child sex abuse" can be traced back to 320, C.E., just five years before the first ecumenical council of the Catholic Church?

Not only is this a startling statement (with even more startling possible implications), but clear evidence of a hidden but nonetheless systemic pattern of child sexual abuse — dating that far back — would be extremely significant.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Jeff » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:58 pm

Simulist wrote:Jeff, do you — or does anyone else here — have more information on how "clerical child sex abuse" can be traced back to 320, C.E., just five years before the first ecumenical council of the Catholic Church?


She's citing the Murphy Report. I've been looking - http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB09000504 - but haven't found it yet.

From March:

Evidence of sexual abuse by clergy, according to the Murphy report, can be traced as far back as 320 AD and the first treatment centres for paedophile priests were created in 1940, named Servants of the Paraclete.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/lette ... 87994.html
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby hanshan » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:10 am

Jeff wrote:
Simulist wrote:Jeff, do you — or does anyone else here — have more information on how "clerical child sex abuse" can be traced back to 320, C.E., just five years before the first ecumenical council of the Catholic Church?


She's citing the Murphy Report. I've been looking - http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB09000504 - but haven't found it yet.

From March:

Evidence of sexual abuse by clergy, according to the Murphy report, can be traced as far back as 320 AD and the first treatment centres for paedophile priests were created in 1940, named Servants of the Paraclete.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/lette ... 87994.html


Jeff wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater



Uhhh - demon child ?


As would Sinead O'Connor. The church is another molested child.

From September:


heh evil spawn


I'm still trying to work out her position – she loves God, but despises Catholicism? She shakes her head. "No, what I think is wrong is that the people running the show are misrepresenting what Catholicism actually is ... what I'm talking about is the highest echelons of the Vatican't as I call it."

The Vatican't? She grins. "Yes, as in they can't admit anything, they can't stand up for anything." Where to start? Women priests, homosexuals, contraception and, of course, child sex abuse. "You can go back centuries, but the way they've behaved just in the last 20 years, over this issue of sexual abuse, shows they don't give a shit. They feel untouchable. And to me it seems they don't believe in God at all. Because if you did believe you couldn't stand in front of that spirit covering up and moving priests and doctoring reports to psychiatrists and not telling them there was a suspicion of abuse, you just couldn't do that."

She quotes any number of documents and papal decrees verbatim at me, hands me copies, insisting I doublecheck everything she says. You could imagine her in court, prosecuting the Vatican. She gives me a potted history of clerical child sex abuse – how it can be traced back to AD 320, how the first official complaint was made in 1917, the first edict was issued from the Vatican in 1922 stating that any complaints of abuse had to be silenced under pain of excommunication, how the first centre for paedophile priests was opened in 1940, how the original edict was reissued in 1962. "So they knew about it all right.

What shocks her as much as the abuse is the manner in which the Vatican claimed ignorance and suggested it is also a victim. In April, the pope's personal preacher Raniero Cantalamessa compared the attack on the Catholic church with the Nazi persecution of the Jews. "That is incendiary," she says. "Quite evil, a fucking disgrace." She is talking calmly, and stops occasionally to sip from a mug, which says: "I feel a sin coming on."

She passes me the 2009 Murphy report into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, which concludes: "The commission has no doubt that clerical child sex abuse was covered up by the archdiocese of Dublin and other church authorities ... The structures and rules of the Catholic church facilitated that cover-up."

So what is the way forward? "OK, the abusive priests have been dealt with and that's very important, but now what has to be dealt with is the criminality of the cover-up." She says it has to go to the very top – after all in 2001, Pope Benedict, as Cardinal Ratzinger, issued an updated edict instructing the world's bishops to silence all abuse allegations or risk being thrown out of the church. "The Vatican is a nest of devils and a haven for criminals. It's evil, the very top of the toppermost is evil."

O'Connor is clear what has to happen – those responsible have to go. "And when all the those guys stand down we should take back the church for us." Would she like to see a democratically elected pope? "Do we need a fucking pope? Why do we need a pope? Christ doesn't need a representative. Ten years from now the church will be nothing resembling what it has been."

O'Connor's anger has always been personal. As a child, she was abused by her mother – her father was only the second man in Ireland to be granted custody of his children. O'Connor, 43, says her mother's behaviour was fashioned by a church that normalised abuse. "People under 40 don't understand what Ireland was like. It was a theocracy, like Iran, slightly less potent but the same situation. The photo of the pope I ripped up was one that had been on my mother's bedroom wall for 25 years. I took it when she died. She learned at school that violence was the way to sort her problems out. These kids were having the shit kicked out of them, and they grew up with the message that this was the way you get people to behave."

Was her mother's violence physical? "Yes, but it was also very sexual. It wasn't like she was having sex with me, but it was sexually abusive violence from when I was very small. It was horrific. I loved my mother but I was terrified of her. I literally pissed my pants if she came near me, but even when she was doing what she did to me I could see this was a soul in torment." She lights a cigarette. "I once won a prize at school for curling up into the smallest ball and the reason I could do that was because I was so used to having the shit kicked out of me." Ultimately, she says, it was the theocracy that led to her beatings that also helped her survive them. "Thank fuck I had a sense of Jesus. When I was lying on the floor having the shit kicked out of me, I'd envision Jesus on the top of some hill on the cross, and the blood would run from Jesus's heart down into mine on the floor and that's how I got through being beaten. I'd concentrate on that image."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... pope-visit
Hmmm.. why am I not surprised? Rhetorical

Good on Sinead


...
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:30 am

O'Connor clearly has some serious unresolved emotional problems that she projects onto the Church, especially that either on a visceral or an intellectual level she clearly can't distinguish between it and her abusive mother.

The Vatican't? She grins. "Yes, as in they can't admit anything, they can't stand up for anything." Where to start? Women priests, homosexuals, contraception and, of course, child sex abuse. "You can go back centuries, but the way they've behaved just in the last 20 years, over this issue of sexual abuse, shows they don't give a shit. They feel untouchable. And to me it seems they don't believe in God at all. Because if you did believe you couldn't stand in front of that spirit covering up and moving priests and doctoring reports to psychiatrists and not telling them there was a suspicion of abuse, you just couldn't do that."


Frankly, I just don't get it. On the one hand, people like O'Connor want to call themselves Catholics, on the other hand they insist that the Catholic Church conform to their own ideals and undergo radical transformations to mirror their society's changing norms and the secular humanist beliefs that they happen to subscribe to. That strikes me as a very unhealthy, possessive and infantile demand: regardless of the fitness of the individuals who have run it, the Church is above all the historic guardian of a specific religious tradition that reflects a particular view of the relationship between Man and God, with the relationship between persons as secondary and subordinate. It has its own complex identity forged over centuries, and its own logic that is fundamentally irreconcilable with the humanist one, and its own unique view of the world and of the Church's mission in that world.

For example, the Catholic Church believes that the temporal world is ruled by Satan and subject to his wiles, that it is an arena in which Man must struggle to free himself through penance and self-denial and spiritual practice and by accepting the gift of grace, from the burden of sin that he carries from the moment that he is born into a human body.

The Church is the custodian of the sacraments that transform Man's interactions with the intrinsically sinful world into acts of communion with the Divine, and thus the intermediary through which Man receives God's grace. Marriage is one of those sacraments, in which two separate people are miraculously transformed into one, and in the context of which the sex is transformed from a profane and sinful activity into an expression of the sacred union between two married people where its primary purpose is not the individuals' pleasure but submission to the will of God. It is from this perspective that homosexuality, sex outside marriage, contraception and abortion are rejected by the Church, for the exact same reasons that they are accepted within humanist logic, which replaces human will and reason and human values for the divine will as expressed in the holy scriptures.

Essentially, what people like O'Connor want is to have their cake and eat it too: they not only want to force the Church to abandon its core values and live up to humanist ideals, but at the same time they want to appropriate the Church's spiritual authority and blessings to sanctify those humanist ideals which are alien to it. It's like a self-described communist insisting that communist doctrine be modified to incorporater the bourgeoisie's right to accumulate property and the means of production. If the Church is to maintain its identity and integrity, in other words if it is to continue to exist, then issues like whether there should be women priests should be decided on the basis of Catholic theology rather than secular humanist ideals.

As someone who happens to subscribe to those humanist ideals (within limits), and as a non-Catholic, I nevertheless am dismayed by O'Connor's attitude. Her hostile zeal would be more understandable if she were living in a theocracy, where the Church was the ultimate authority in civil and legal matters and had coercive power to impose its will, because then humanists would be obliged to choose between either coercing the Church to radically change and become whatever they want it to be or taking away its temporal hegemony, but that's not the case. Nobody's stopping people who disagree from leaving the Church and finding a more agreeable spiritual home. Instead, idiosyncratic "Catholics" like O'Connor, along with militant atheists and other hostile outsiders are using the issue of some priests' pedophilia and the Church authorities' shameful response as a pretext to launch a comprehensive attack on the Church's very raison d'etre, especially its mission to safeguard and interpret the teachings of Christ in the way that it sees fit, regardless of how they think it should, with people like O'Connor wanting to slap on the new, unrecognizable thing a label that says "Catholic Church".

Where those men who sexually abused children and those other men who covered up and protected the abusers violated society's law, they must be punished by the Society which they have offended. Where they have violated their own sacred vows and committed grave sins, they must also be punished according to the religious law of the Church to which they belong. Neither one endangers the very existence and integrity of the Church, on the contrary: in my view a scrupulous implementation of these measures would revitalize the Church and substantiate the Church's role as a spiritual guide in a dark world. But whether one believes that the Catholic Church is something worth saving or not, demanding that it no longer have the right to embody its own interpretation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, to administer the sacraments and to pursue its charity work around the world in the way that best expresses its unique core spiritual beliefs, is to demand that the Catholic Church be eradicated and replaced with a phony substitute. In my opinion, it's dishonest and hypocritical.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:51 am

jah jah sent us here to catch vampiyah


it's the law, i and i must wear kid gloves when dealing with vampiyah
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby sunny » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:12 pm

"In the 1970's pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children."


Just who the hell was Pope Ratt referring to as holding these theories? And why even bring this up in light of the fact that the church tolerated child sex abuse within it's ranks and he knows it? In this context it frankly DOES sound like a justification.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby lupercal » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:45 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:Disclosure: I don't trust the BBC or much of the mainstream media to be honest and impartial and not have a hidden, probably nefarious, agenda. And I'm not comfortable with the hostile, massive media campaign that appears to be targeting the Catholic Church as a whole and unjustly tainting everyone associated with it rather than specific individuals or systemic vulnerabilities.

Bingo. Follow the money. This has happened before, for example in 1527 in the Merry Olde First Reich. See Thomas More, author of "Utopia," which denounces in no uncertain terms the conspiracy of the rich against the poor. Anyway this latest round as far as I can tell is basically to neutralize opposition to the perma-wars. I don't expect anyone here to believe it but Benny has been a critic of the Iraq war since long before he was pope.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Jeff » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:10 pm

lupercal wrote:Anyway this latest round as far as I can tell is basically to neutralize opposition to the perma-wars.


I'm sorry, That's a reach that exceeds my grasp.

Holy warriors
Cardinal Ratzinger handed Bush the presidency by tipping the Catholic vote. Can American democracy survive their shared medieval vision?
By Sidney Blumenthal

Apr 21, 2005

President Bush treated his final visit with Pope John Paul II in Vatican City on June 4, 2004, as a campaign stop. After enduring a public rebuke from the pope about the Iraq war, Bush lobbied Vatican officials to help him win the election. "Not all the American bishops are with me," he complained, according to the National Catholic Reporter. He pleaded with the Vatican to pressure the bishops to step up their activism against abortion and gay marriage in the states during the campaign season.

About a week later, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sent a letter to the U.S. bishops, pronouncing that those Catholics who were pro-choice on abortion were committing a "grave sin" and must be denied Communion. He pointedly mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws" -- an obvious reference to John Kerry, the Democratic candidate and a Roman Catholic. If such a Catholic politician sought Communion, Ratzinger wrote, priests must be ordered to "refuse to distribute it." Any Catholic who voted for this "Catholic politician," he continued, "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion." During the closing weeks of the campaign, a pastoral letter was read from pulpits in Catholic churches repeating the ominous suggestion of excommunication. Voting for the Democrat was nothing less than consorting with the forces of Satan, collaboration with "evil."

In 2004 Bush increased his margin of Catholic support by 6 points from the 2000 election, rising from 46 to 52 percent. Without this shift, Kerry would have had a popular majority of a million votes. Three states -- Ohio, Iowa and New Mexico -- moved into Bush's column on the votes of the Catholic "faithful." Even with his atmospherics of terrorism and Sept. 11, Bush required the benediction of the Holy See as his saving grace. The key to his kingdom was turned by Cardinal Ratzinger.

With the College of Cardinals' election of Ratzinger to the papacy, his political alliances with conservative politicians can be expected to deepen and broaden. Under Benedict XVI, the church will assume a consistent reactionary activism it has not had for two centuries. And the new pope's crusade against modernity has already joined forces with the right-wing culture war in the United States, prefigured by his interference in the 2004 election.

...



http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/blume ... 5/04/21/tk

Helping out a Bush was nothing new to the Cardinal.


Buried Treasure
By Chris Floyd
Published: April 29, 2005

It seemed, at first, like nothing more than a novelty item in the news briefs, the kind of odd, meaningless side-fact thrown off by most major stories: "New Pope, President's Brother Had Link in Swiss Group." But a look beneath the surface of this innocuous connection reveals a vast web of sinister alliances -- and moral corruption on a world-shaking scale.

The network links a bewildering line-up of players -- the Bushes, the Vatican, bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and China's Communist overlords, among others -- in a staggering array of crime and turpitude: prostitution, pedophilia, mass death and war profiteering. Yet this is not some grand "conspiracy theory," a serpent's egg hatched in Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove. It's simply the way the Bush boys do business, trawling the globe for sweetheart deals and gushers of blood money from the war and terror they foment.

...

Neilsy's latest business ventures include a partnership with one of China's own influence-peddling oligarchs: Jiang Mianheng, son of former President Jiang Zemin. He's paying Bush $2 million for "advice" in a field – the semiconductor industry -- which Neilsy cheerfully confesses he knows nothing about. Bush also trousered $1 million for "introductions and advice" from the CP Group, a Bangkok conglomerate spreading bipartisan gravy around Washington. In return for supplying his paymasters with a golden conduit to the White House, Neilsy received a special perk: free prostitutes, served up fresh to his hotel room during business trips to Asia.

But between his sessions of bouncy-bouncy with trafficked women, Neilsy was also sitting down with hard-line cleric Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the former soldier for Nazi Germany now translated to glory as Pope Benedict XVI. The two men were board members of an obscure Swiss institute ostensibly devoted to "interfaith dialogue." Although the organization did have some prominent ecumenical figures on the board, none of them could say exactly why pimp-daddy Neilsy was invited to join, Newsday reported.

Perhaps there's a clue in the group's incorporation. Dunn & Bradstreet lists the supposedly nonprofit foundation as a "management trust," designed for "purposes other than education, religion, charity or research." The group's spokesman says this designation was a "mistake," and anyway, the institute is hastily being "re-launched" with a "new focus" on its religious mission. But a cynic -- i.e., anyone with the slightest acquaintance of Bush business practices -- might think that a "management trust" masquerading as a religious charity would be an excellent place to launder money or park assets away from the taxman's prying eyes.

Meanwhile, Ratzinger spent his time on the Swiss board trying to bury the Vatican's massive pedophilia scandal, the London Observer reported this week. In a secret 2001 letter, he ordered Church officials to prevent police from learning about abuse allegations -- a theological innovation more commonly known in the United States as "obstructing justice." Given this criminal high-wire act, perhaps the good cardinal thought it prudent to cultivate some personal ties with a presidential sibling.

Whatever Neilsy and Das Panzerkardinal were up to in Switzerland, Ratzinger repaid their camaraderie with a decisive intervention in brother George's 2004 election, issuing a fatwa that essentially condemned any Catholic voting for John Kerry to eternal hellfire. With the Vatican's iron hand on the scales, Bush reaped an extra six percent of the Catholic vote -- a huge boost in a tight race.

But it's Neilsy's long-time partnership with Syrian-born businessman Jamal Daniel that has provided the true mother lode: war profiteering. Daniel, also a boardmate in the Swiss adventure with Ratzinger, is a principal in New Bridge Strategies, a firm set up by top Bush insiders to steer corporate clients to the fountains of blood money flowing from George W.'s conquest of Iraq. The company makes frequent use of Neilsy's "introductions" and Middle East connections, The Financial Times reported. It also operates a profitable sideline in mercenaries.

...


http://www.oilempire.us/pope.html
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Jeff
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby lupercal » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:19 pm

Yes Jeff I know about the Kerry deal. The bishops also found a reason to oppose JFK in 1960. I didn't say they weren't naive and easily fooled, just that they oppose the wars. The second article doesn't add up to much in my view but whatevs.
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Re: Sinead O'Connor: Some Burning Questions for the Pope

Postby Jeff » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:25 pm

lupercal wrote:Yes Jeff I know about the Kerry deal. The bishops also found a reason to oppose JFK in 1960. I didn't say they weren't naive and easily fooled, just that they oppose the wars.


So you are saying the anti-war bishops were fooled by Ratzinger? I could agree with that.
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