Manageable Chaos?

[23]

I am reminded that it's a common perspective to view chaos as the antithesis of order, when the antithesis of order may, in fact, be dis-order.

Chaos may only be our interpretation of that dis-order (i.e. "I can't make any sense of it" or "I can't control it").

If this is the case, then wouldn't a more apt question be "manageable dis-order?"

It would call for an alternative interpretation of dis-order, then, instead of continuing to subscribe to the chaos one.

[JackRiddler]

This makes me think of the Wisconsin situation, too, where the sole goal for the Cock brothers might just be getting ownership of the power plants.

If they take the Union-busting provisions out of the bill, the "progressives" can declare a glorious victory, with the Cocks laughing all the way to their already-bulging bank.

I'm sorry, this is nonsense. I'm very sorry, this is just nonsense.

Wisconsin is about the hard-liners among the super-rich using Walker and the current Tea Party ascendancy as the opportunity to escalate into total class war. This is not about the Kochs going for some cheap power plants, it is about the hard-line super-rich going for EVERYTHING. The union-busting is NOT just the decoy to get the power-plant provision. They do NOT want to surrender on collective bargaining! They could have a week ago and the rest of the bill would have indeed sailed through. They want to BREAK the unions AND they want the power plants to go to the lowest bidder if his name is Koch AND they want to end pensions and health care AND slam down wages AND demonstrate that dissent is pointless and will be crushed by force if necessary.

They want it ALL.

Furthermore, that the resistance is still going could not possibly have been part of the plan! That the Kochs are now about as well-known in Wisconsin and as hated as Walker himself could not have been part of the plan. If the people win in defending the right to organize and bargain collectively, they are very likely to feel strong and powerful, and to further reverse the dynamic of the class war. Winning this struggle would make them much more likely to notice if Walker tries to sell power plants for cheap to Kochs or their ilk, and to oppose that as well.

Power constantly takes advantage of "chaos" to impose its desired "order," and often creates the chaos to do so. That's obvious. What many on this thread seem to miss is that this simple axiom does not by any stretch apply to all cases of "chaos." It doesn't explain everything. It doesn't mean that some PTB planned it every time to you see "chaos." In this case, it's not even "chaos," it's disciplined protest, organized peoples fighting back against class war outrages. Wisconsin is not chaos but an orderly counter-attack.

There will be no secretly intended back-down by Walker in Wisconsin. His side will either win, or they will lose. If they lose, he's done. The success of a new working-class movement will not have been a plan to distract from power plant sales to crony capitalists. The latter will actually become LESS likely if the unions win.

.

[WakeUpAndLive]

ower constantly takes advantage of "chaos" to impose its desired "order," and often creates the chaos to do so. That's obvious. What many on this thread seem to miss is that this simple axiom does not by any stretch apply to all cases of "chaos." It doesn't explain everything. It doesn't mean that some PTB planned it every time to you see "chaos." In this case, it's not even "chaos," it's disciplined protest, organized peoples fighting back against class war outrages. Wisconsin is not chaos but an orderly counter-attack.

You're very correct, I am not saying that the PTB do create and plan every event, but I am saying that the PTB will manipulate an event in any way possible that helps them shape a favorable outcome.

[JackRiddler]

ower constantly takes advantage of "chaos" to impose its desired "order," and often creates the chaos to do so. That's obvious. What many on this thread seem to miss is that this simple axiom does not by any stretch apply to all cases of "chaos." It doesn't explain everything. It doesn't mean that some PTB planned it every time to you see "chaos." In this case, it's not even "chaos," it's disciplined protest, organized peoples fighting back against class war outrages. Wisconsin is not chaos but an orderly counter-attack.

You're very correct, I am not saying that the PTB do create and plan every event, but I am saying that the PTB will manipulate an event in any way possible that helps them shape a favorable outcome.

"They"* will TRY to manipulate an event in any way possible.

That doesn't always work. In fact, it never works exactly as planned. I don't believe this even of 9/11, the most discussed recent case of deriving a revised order from an anticipated and probably fully planned chaos. It didn't work exactly as planned on the day, and while very effective, was far from producing its full potential as a transformative event. In the end the empire that generated it will fail altogether.

The results are always different than planned, and that goes for every top-down sociopolitical plan from the long-term to the improvised.

.....

* depending on which "they" we mean, and whether there is sufficient consensus and opportunity.

.

[WakeUpAndLive]

"They"* will TRY to manipulate an event in any way possible.

That doesn't always work. In fact, it never works exactly as planned. I don't believe this even of 9/11, the most discussed recent case of deriving a revised order from an anticipated and probably fully planned chaos. It didn't work exactly as planned on the day, and while very effective, was far from producing its full potential as a transformative event. In the end the empire that generated it will fail altogether.

The results are always different than planned, and that goes for every top-down sociopolitical plan from the long-term to the improvised.

.....

* depending on which "they" we mean, and whether there is sufficient consensus and opportunity.

.

I definitely should have thrown a TRY in my previous sentence, because it is impossible to predict an accurate result in these complex matters.

I honestly feel that most of it is only outlined, with mutiple outcomes/solutions presented for the different reactions, IF anything at all. It truly seems like we are making seat of the pant decisions at this point with many of the events. I agree with your sentiment that it cannot continue, as the power structures are such an unsustainable entity that require constant manipulation to even keep hobbling along.

[Nordic]

This makes me think of the Wisconsin situation, too, where the sole goal for the Cock brothers might just be getting ownership of the power plants.

If they take the Union-busting provisions out of the bill, the "progressives" can declare a glorious victory, with the Cocks laughing all the way to their already-bulging bank.

I'm sorry, this is nonsense. I'm very sorry, this is just nonsense.

Wisconsin is about the hard-liners among the super-rich using Walker and the current Tea Party ascendancy as the opportunity to escalate into total class war. This is not about the Kochs going for some cheap power plants, it is about the hard-line super-rich going for EVERYTHING. The union-busting is NOT just the decoy to get the power-plant provision. They do NOT want to surrender on collective bargaining! They could have a week ago and the rest of the bill would have indeed sailed through. They want to BREAK the unions AND they want the power plants to go to the lowest bidder if his name is Koch AND they want to end pensions and health care AND slam down wages AND demonstrate that dissent is pointless and will be crushed by force if necessary.

They want it ALL.

Furthermore, that the resistance is still going could not possibly have been part of the plan! That the Kochs are now about as well-known in Wisconsin and as hated as Walker himself could not have been part of the plan. If the people win in defending the right to organize and bargain collectively, they are very likely to feel strong and powerful, and to further reverse the dynamic of the class war. Winning this struggle would make them much more likely to notice if Walker tries to sell power plants for cheap to Kochs or their ilk, and to oppose that as well.

Power constantly takes advantage of "chaos" to impose its desired "order," and often creates the chaos to do so. That's obvious. What many on this thread seem to miss is that this simple axiom does not by any stretch apply to all cases of "chaos." It doesn't explain everything. It doesn't mean that some PTB planned it every time to you see "chaos." In this case, it's not even "chaos," it's disciplined protest, organized peoples fighting back against class war outrages. Wisconsin is not chaos but an orderly counter-attack.

There will be no secretly intended back-down by Walker in Wisconsin. His side will either win, or they will lose. If they lose, he's done. The success of a new working-class movement will not have been a plan to distract from power plant sales to crony capitalists. The latter will actually become LESS likely if the unions win.

.

Actually, I suppose I wasn't clear. We're not in disagreement. As you say, they do want it all.

But I'm sure the provision for the power plants was a nice little thing they threw in, so even if they lost, they won.

I really don't think they anticipated the backlash on this. This whole thing is actually blowing up in their faces, which is nice. They just gave the labor movement in this country a HUGE shot in the arm!

Still, they might shove it down our throats, and even if they don't, somebody needs to look at all the sneaky shit they're doing LIKE the power plant provision.