Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to it

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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby justdrew » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:19 pm

stefano wrote:
justdrew wrote:WHO played this 'movie' up in Egypt and Libya? There must have been local media campaigns in those locations to enable local awareness.

Another possibility, the "mobs" were completely fake, generated by the perps to flush their target from cover in a rather predictable fashion.

It's online somewhere, dubbed into Egyptian Arabic. The mobs weren't fake (the group in Benghazi was small btw). Those Salafists march for fucking anything and this is a big thing. Bound to get people on the streets.


the Arabic version views145,776 | 1 week ago
Muhammad Movie Trailer 203,928 views | 2 months ago
The Real Life of Muhammad 20,737 views | 2 months ago

I think this is the "launch" channel, http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DjVszAn4GAyzgsjtkJONg under the name "sam bacile" so it looks like the videos been out awhile. Terry Jones publicizing it may have been what brought it to attention.

Also, I saw that it looks like maybe the Ambassadors presence was not predictable, as it sounds like he went to the office in Benghazi from elsewhere to assist in evacuation, so maybe it wasn't expected that he'd be there. Possibly no one expected someone to fire an RPG, but that doesn't seem that surprising given the state Libya's in.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby justdrew » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:30 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:“We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen.”


Meet The Right-Wing Extremist Behind Anti-Muslim Film That Sparked Deadly Riots
On 09.12.12, By Max
Image
"Innocence of Muslims" consultant Steve Klein is a veteran anti-Muslim organizer with close ties to the Christian right in California
The US Ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens, and three US diplomats were killed in attacks and rioting provoked by an obscure, low-budget anti-Muslim film called “The Innocence of Muslims.” The producer of the film is a real estate developer supposedly named “Sam Bacile” who claims to be an Israeli Jew. Bacile told the AP the film was made with $5 million raised from “100 Jewish donors.” He said he was motivated to help his native country, Israel, by exposing the evils of Islam.

While Bacile claims to be in hiding, and his identity remains murky, another character who has been publicly listed as a consultant on the film is a known anti-Muslim activist with ties to the extreme Christian right and the militia movement. He is Steve Klein, a Hemet, California based insurance salesman who claims to have led a “hunter-killer team” in Vietnam.”

Klein is a right-wing extremist who emerged from the same axis of Islamophobia that produced Anders Behring Breivik and which takes inspiration from the writings of Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Daniel Pipes.

It appears Klein (or someone who shares his name and views) is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller’s website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney’s “support for a Muslim state in Israel’s Heartland.” In July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized alongside the anti-Muslim Coptic extremist Joseph Nasrallah to demand the firing of LA County Sheriff Lee Baca, whom they painted as a dupe for Hamas.

Klein is also closely affiliated with the Christian right in California, organizing resentment against all the usual targets — Muslims, homosexuals, feminists, and even Mormons. He is a board member and founder of a group called Courageous Christians United, which promotes anti-Mormon, anti-Catholic and anti-Muslim literature (including the work of Robert Spencer) on its website. In 2002, Klein ran for the California Insurance Commissioner under the American Independent Party, an extremist fringe party linked to the militia movement, garnering a piddling 2 percent of the vote.

Klein has been closely affiliated with the Church at Kaweah, an extreme evangelical church located 70 miles southeast of Fresno that serves as a nexus of neo-Confederate, Christian Reconstructionist, and militia movement elements. The Southern Poverty Law Center produced a report on Kaweah this spring that noted Klein’s long record of activist against Muslims:

Over the past year, Johnson and the church militia have developed a relationship with Steve Klein, a longtime religious-right activist who brags about having led a “hunter killer” team as a Marine in Vietnam. Klein, who calls Islam a “penis-driven religion” and thinks Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca is a Muslim Brotherhood patsy, is allied with Christian activist groups across California. In 2011, as head of the Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment, he worked with the Vista, Calif.-based Christian Anti-Defamation Commission on a campaign to “arm” students with the “truth about Islam and Muhammad” — mainly by leafleting high schools with literature depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a sex-crazed pedophile.

Klein, based in Hemet, Calif., has been active in extremist movements for decades. In 1977, he founded Courageous Christians United, which now conducts “respectful confrontations” outside of abortion clinics, Mormon temples and mosques. Klein also has ties to the Minuteman movement. In 2007, he sued the city of San Clemente for ordering him to stop leafleting cars with pamphlets opposing illegal immigration.

Like many other activists who fashion themselves as “counter-Jihadists,” Klein has organized against the construction of mosques in his area. While leafleting against a planned mosque in Temecula, California, which he claimed would herald the introduction of Shariah law to the quiet suburb, Klein remarked, “It all comes down to the first amendment. I don’t care if you disagree with me. Just don’t cut off my head.”

Klein appears to be allied with the National American Coptic Assembly, a radical Islamophobic group headed by Morris Sadik. Sadik claims to have discovered the film and began promoting it online. Once it went viral, the trailer was translated into Arabic, sparking outrage in the Middle East, and ultimately, to the deadly attacks carried out by Muslim extremists today.

Klein claims credit for inspiring “Sam Bacile” to produce “The Innocence of Muslims,” promising him he would be “the next Theo Van Gogh,” referring to the Dutch columnist who was murdered by a Muslim extremist. Of the attacks in Libya, Klein said, “We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen.”



Klein most likely is the creator of the movie, for which there is only a trailer, I don't think there is a "whole" movie out there, and it sure as fuck didn't cost $5million, I doubt it cost $5thousand.

I think this Klein character is a low life piece of shit, but whoever fired that RPG in Libya did more to harm people's view of Islam than the makers of this pathetic trailer.

I'd like to know what can be done about scum like Klein or Terry Jones? What can be done? Are we seriously morally obligated to just sit back and let these vile bastards corrupt minds and spread hate?
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:37 pm

82_28 wrote:How can we be so sure the death of Ambassador Stevens and attack on the US embassy in Libya was all in reaction to "some film" that was simultaneously meant to enrage "the Muslim world" and educate the rest of us of how "vile" this Muslim shit is? Some film? Come on. How does the media already know this? The director or whatever has already gone into hiding. Apparently he's some Israeli living in California and wants to relay to the rest of us who really wouldn't care about either religion either way about how Islam is a "cancer".

It's akin to finding the passport on the street of I forget who (some terrorist), outside the events of ground zero. Meaning, "how stupid do you think we are?"


Stupid enough not to realize that Libyans have every reason to hate the United States, its ambassador, and everything they stand for, I guess.

And I can't really say that I blame them for that, to be honest. If I'd lived without freedom and under threat of various hellish reprisals as a direct result of United States policy for as long as most people in Libya have, I'd probably want to kill ordinary United States citizens just for being stupid enough not to know or care that this...

The secretary of state said she asked herself "how could this happen in a country we helped liberate and in a city we helped to save from destruction."


...was a vicious lie and (from my point of view) lethal threat.

I probably wouldn't really think of it as primarily stupidity, though. Because the problem with it isn't primarily that it's stupid but that it's selfish. At best.

As to the rest of your questions:

As far as I can see, the media are pointing to that film because Hillary Clinton is using a protest against it in Egypt as the flimsy pretext that's all she really needs to divert their attention and that of their viewers from stuff they might otherwise hold her and themselves responsible for if they weren't too stupid and/or selfish to think of it in those terms.

But she wouldn't be where/who she is if she didn't have the knack for killing two birds with one flimsy pretext that this one attests to. You probably didn't notice that because for some reason, you seem not to have noticed that the interests behind film are being described as bi-national and not just Israeli:

The movie was made by Israeli producer Sam Bacile and has been promoted by controversial pastor Terry Jones, the Florida preacher whose Koran burning in March 2010 led to the deadly violence in Afghanistan.


BTW, it genuinely sounds like a very offensive film to me. According to Pastor Jones, it depicts Islam as "a destructive ideology." So I guess I'm not really even sure why it's so unthinkable to you that Muslims would be outraged by it. I mean, if watching a Lady GaGa video can provoke feelings intense enough to count as a personal/political grievance, why wouldn't that?

Was this "small and savage group" all tweeting and shit about this film and said "hey, yo, hittin you up later with the rest of the small and savage posse at 9 for the admittedly impromptu attack on the US embassy. 9 sharp."


Those are Hillary's words. And they're intended to make you think that hostility towards the United States is an exceptional and unearned thing among Libyans.

Come on.


I agree.


Where's Alice when we so sorely need her?


Sorry. You're doing fine on your own, wrt merit, fwiw. But (of course) emotional need is a whole other thing. So as far as that goes, I really am sorry.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:Uh, yeah. Hello Mossad:


I was going to say: "Probably, but not exclusively" before the provenance of the movie came under closer scrutiny as a way of highlighting evangelical interests.

But now I guess I'm saying it as a way of highlighting far-right Israeli interests.

Either way, I expect there's some reason to say hello to both, though.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:44 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:way more to it

like someone interfering in U.S. elections


Yeah. The worst part of it is, they're the candidates.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:00 pm

justdrew wrote:
I'd like to know what can be done about scum like Klein or Terry Jones? What can be done? Are we seriously morally obligated to just sit back and let these vile bastards corrupt minds and spread hate?


^^Just saying that does a lot. You're the best, justdrew, thanks.
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BTW, I don't really think 82_28 or anybody else is stupid or hateful or any other condemnable thing for thinking Mossad/Israel when shit goes down in Libya and/or Egypt. They're probably in the picture in one way or another. They're not necessarily the ones who painted it, though. And in this country, they're not the most immediate danger.

It's out of concern for what innocent and soulful people risk by looking only at them that I speak so nastily, not nastiness. Not that it matters, I know. I apologize. I was upset by something upsetting and felt helpless. That's no excuse. But it's the case.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby 82_28 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:01 pm

The Attack on the US Consulate Was A Planned Terrorist Assault Against US and Libyan Interests

The military assault against the US Consulate in Benghazi should not be seen as part of a protest against a low budget film which was insulting Islam – there were just a few peaceful protesters present at the event. Indeed, there have been no other demonstrations regarding this film in Libya.

We at Quilliam believe the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi was a well planned terrorist attack that would have occurred regardless of the demonstration, to serve another purpose. According to information obtained by Quilliam – from foreign sources and from within Benghazi – we have reason to believe that the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi came to avenge the death of Abu Yaya al-Libi, al-Qaeda’s second in command killed a few months ago.

The reasons for this are as follows:

24 hours before this attack, none other than the leader of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri, released a video on Jihadist forums to mark the anniversary of 9/11. In this video, Zawahiri acknowledged the death of his second in command Abu Yahya and urged Libyans to avenge his killing.

According to our sources, the attack was the work of roughly 20 militants, prepared for a military assault – it is rare that an RPG7 is present at a peaceful protest.

According to our sources, the attack against the Consulate had two waves. The first attack led to US officials being evacuated from the consulate by Libyan security forces, only for the second wave to be launched against US officials after they were kept in a secure location.

The weak security environment in Libya including in Benghazi and the failure of the government to project its power outside of the capital have been used as a cover for the attack.

The failure to rebuild the defence and security sector, in an accountable, professional and responsible manner will only further the likelihood of such attacks in the future. Attacks in Benghazi are not new – the Red Cross has been attacked multiple times in previous months, as have the US consulate and also the UK Ambassador, and such security lapses encourage attacks. The International Community must take the challenge of not allowing extremist elements to hijack the Arab Uprisings very seriously, by renewing their focus on civic and governance responses to check the efforts of Islamist extremists attempting to exploit the inevitable security vacuum.

Noman Benotman, President of Quilliam says:

“These are acts committed by uncontrollable jihadist groups. We hope Libya will seize this opportunity to revive its policy of Disarmament, Demobilisation and Re-integration (DDR) in order to facilitate an end to the spread of such attacks, with the help of the International Community. We hope that the International Community, including NATO member states and especially the US, will continue their excellent work in Libya which began with the overthrow of the dictator Gaddafi after 42 years in power.”


http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/press ... interests/
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:18 pm

82_28 wrote:The Attack on the US Consulate Was A Planned Terrorist Assault Against US and Libyan Interests

The military assault against the US Consulate in Benghazi should not be seen as part of a protest against a low budget film which was insulting Islam – there were just a few peaceful protesters present at the event. Indeed, there have been no other demonstrations regarding this film in Libya.


But look at who and what they are. That's spin. Or actually counterspin in response to Hillary and as a defense against any potential criticism pointing out that the Quilliam Foundation's message and that of the movie are identical, for all intents and purposes. Which they are. So of course they're finger-pointing. That doesn't mean the movie is or isn't the true or only cause, though. That there's so much pointing to and away from it by people with hopes of politically capitalizing on the implications of doing so kind of suggests that it isn't. In fact.

Again, that's not to say that it doesn't sound like an intentional outrage. It does. It wouldn't pack much of a punch if that was a freestanding thing, though.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby crikkett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:44 pm

dbcooper41 wrote:now we have a great reason to send marines into north africa.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21524480/marines-headed-libya-reinforce-security

and has anyone been able to figure out mr bacile really is?


Bacile as in imbecile? How is this pronounced?

When I first read this line I thought, "M. Bacile would be too juvenile of a fake name."
OTOH Sam Bacile is definitely not immediately recognizable as a fake name.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:16 pm

Facile, perhaps.

So, Obama denies Netanyahu an audience...

Considering the US population's war-weary condition, what do you suppose would be enough to rile them to support an invasion of Iran?

If we look back to our Puritan roots, blasphemy was the most serious of crimes and, like today in the middle east and elsewhere, it was punishable by death. The reaction to this film or its trailer was well understood by whomever made it.

Whether the attack was a 911 memorial 'celebration' or in retaliation for our murdering al-Shihri, who's to say? The latter seems likely to me, under cover of a staged demonstration protesting the offensive film. We know how provocateurs operate at our own protests to incite violence.
But who the provocateurs, if any, were under orders from, is the question needing an answer.

Israel? Islamic Brotherhood? al Qaeda? CIA? All have there motives. I dunno.

Never underestimate the levels a Republican will stoop to, to win an election. Rove? Cheney?
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby The Consul » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:33 pm

Blumenthal is an interesting cat, his finger is on the pulse that pumps out this kind of vile excreta, the blood poison of an insane cultish monster. His book talks about how the gopers were taken over by religionists who's psyches were largely informed through the trial of child abuse. Still, I can't help but think a dipshit like Steve Klein can throw something this premeditated against the ceiling without some rather sophisticated help who can use him as dirtbag patsy if the need arises. The question is why? Was it designed to benefit Romney and he just fucked it up like everything else? Was it a misapprehension? Have the wingnuts been preaching to the choir so long that they have forgotten their choir is a shrinking slice of the pie? At this rate in the next election cycle they will proffer a candidate who will deliver his acceptance speech speaking in tongues. The whole Romney thing is an utterly drain bamaging thing to ponder; unless of course he was thrown up only to insure that Obama keeps the keys and the slime machine is primed in case a real populist raises his or her head in the next election.

See JustDrew's post above...
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby crikkett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:41 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:If we look back to our Puritan roots, blasphemy was the most serious of crimes and, like today in the middle east and elsewhere, it was punishable by death. The reaction to this film or its trailer was well understood by whomever made it.

DH is playing the English trailer way over there in the other room and I'm still retching. It's so stupid I'm getting angry at it.
Never underestimate the levels a Republican will stoop to, to win an election. Rove? Cheney?

What a crap thing to subject so many people to. Oh, it's just awful. The worst.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:57 pm

Crikkett, considering my first ever comment on Jeff's blog brought a reaction from one telling me I was what they considered the "downside of internet blogging," I just have to ask, was your last line above... were you referring to my comment or the film? (yeah, I'm for some reason feeling a bit insecure today)
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby crikkett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:03 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Crikkett, considering my first ever comment on Jeff's blog brought a reaction from one telling me I was what they considered the "downside of internet blogging," I just have to ask, was your last line above... were you referring to my comment or the film? (yeah, I'm for some reason feeling a bit insecure today)

The movie! The movie!

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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby dqueue » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:10 pm

It's worth adding Joe Cannon to the thread... he's attentive to the story.

Cannonfire's blog, The war conspiracy (updated)

He writes, in part (bold, mine):
I shook with rage -- literally -- as I read this:
Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus (@Reince) tweeted out the following before news of the murder of the U.S. ambassador in Libya, but after the sustained attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities there and in Egypt: "Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic."
Also see here:
Bacile’s film was dubbed into Egyptian Arabic by someone he doesn’t know, but he speaks enough Arabic to confirm that the translation is accurate.
An unseen, unreleased, unavailable movie was dubbed without the film-maker's awareness or permission? Cah-MON. That just does not happen.

Let's put it all together. What do we have?

You would have to be a child not to understand what's really going on here. This is the most obvious psyop conspiracy I've ever seen.
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