Cliven Bundy Ranch

[DrEvil]

So a bunch of heavily armed religious and political extremists are facing down the feds? What happened to not negotiating with terrorists? I say send in the drones.

[Iamwhomiam]

Oh, I agree with concern for police actions. The man doesn't recognize the federal government's authority. Basically, he's acting feloniously. And the government won't fail to use all available force necessary to suppress the demonstration and evict and jail Bundy. How they accomplish this to anyone's satisfaction is beyond me. Spoiler: Bundy surrenders to County Sheriff.

If the extremists want a martyr they should find one who has some legal standing for refusing legal governmental demands.

Has anyone considered Bundy an asset, a provocateur now making news to draw out our more radical patriots?

[conniption]

The Politics Blog

Range War In Nevada

By Charles P. Pierce on April 14, 2014


George Frey/Getty Images
Rancher Cliven Bundy poses outside his ranch house in Mesquite, Nevada.

Not to put too fine a point on it but, one day, Sean Hannity, or someone very much like him, is going to help get somebody killed. Back in 2005, Hannity, and a lot of someones very much like him, ginned up a mob during the Terri Schiavo situation in Florida. Ultimately, this resulted in bomb scares that closed an elementary school down the block from the hospice in which Ms. Schiavo was being cared for, death threats against judges that were serious enough that they had federal marshals sleeping in their living rooms, and a bounty on the head of Michael Schiavo that one guy got arrested for trying to collect. (I visited the hospice a couple of years after the craziness had ended and the one name that was the unanimous subject of utter loathing was Sean Hannity's.) Over the weekend, Hannity, and a lot of someones just like him, were at it again.

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94 comments

[Grizzly]

Bundy Ranch - What You're Not Being Told

[Sounder]

Iamwhomiam wrote....

Oh, I agree with concern for police actions. The man doesn't recognize the federal government's authority. Basically, he's acting feloniously. And the government won't fail to use all available force necessary to suppress the demonstration and evict and jail Bundy. How they accomplish this to anyone's satisfaction is beyond me. Spoiler: Bundy surrenders to County Sheriff.

If the extremists want a martyr they should find one who has some legal standing for refusing legal governmental demands.

This is just funny, more blather about legal standing and felonious activities. Talk about clueless. Hey maybe we can use that land to frack on so we can save the world from global warming, yeah that's the ticket.

This from Michael Rivero over at http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Senate majority leader Harry Reid hasn't been very vocal about the cattle battle showdown in recent days, but says "it's not over."

Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said.

The law is not on the side of Harry Reid, or his donor Harvey Whittemore, who has plans to commercially develop that land the Bundy ranch is currently on. Nor is the law on the side of Rory Reid, Harry's son, who was hired by Chinese energy firm ENN Energy Group to obtain the land for a solar power plant, purchasing $38 million worth of public lands for just $4.5 million in a sweetheart deal.

The Bundy Family purchase all of that land in 1877, only to have it seized by the government in the 1930s. This violated Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution, known as the Enclave Clause, which limits the Federal Government to owning land ONLY for Federal Buildings and military installations, NOT seizing millions of acres of private and public lands to be sold to corporations or pledged as collateral on out-of-control government borrowing.

Then there is the Homestead law, which says ownership of the land belongs to those who have lived on the land and developed it, which the Bundys have done in an unbroken chain since 1887.

The BLM does not have legal jurisdiction as the land in question is actually under state control.

So Mr. Reid does not in fact have the law on his side. He just wants the land for his political cronies and cares not about the rightful owners. The Bundys and the patriots standing with him are defending the Constitutional rights of all Americans against a central tyrannical government which operated outside of the legal authority granted to it by the Constitution for decades. That Constitution IS the original Contract With America, and the Federal Government is lawful and legitimate only when it complies with the rules and restrictions We The People set forth in that document.

UPDATE: I posted the above comment to the NBC website, and it is nowhere to be seen, although one other comment refers to it. So it seems that NBC decided that the fact that the Federal Land Grab is a violation of the Constitution is not something their readers need to know!

Ideologically motivated responses to this situation is guaranteed to reveal posters as easily manipulatable tools of power.

[Iamwhomiam]

You know Sounder, you should really make an effort a being less of a shithead.

Fracking has been intruding into sensitive and restricted habitats everywhere. That there are plans by some oil concern to extract here shouldn't surprise anyone. And drilling here by no means requires Bundy's expulsion.

The solar farm is another matter and a fence could secure it from cattle intrusions. Putting the blame for this man's troubles on Reid, the Number 1 target of the radical right, is convenient to their cause. And I'm naive.

Look, there are homesteading laws and it's easy enough to verify whether or not the man had any legal right to our public property, which he and his ancestors have profited from without any benefit to the public.

Like I said, read the post from Jones' website. And I'll try to find a source to view the videos. No one has summarized any of their content, so I'm at a loss to offer any comment on the information they convey.

Like I said, If the guy has legal standing to possess the land he does not own, I'd support him. Until then, I cannot. Regardless of Reid's involvement with the billion dollar solar farm planned nearby, which I find perfectly normal for a Senator to promote for his own state. Just so happens Harry Reid is the leader of the majority party of the Senate, a Democrat. A convenient target for false allegations from the right to be laid upon.

[slimmouse]

Having quickly skimmed this thread, I do find it laughable that this is somehow about protecting turtles from the evil Mr Bundy.

Im taking this perspective from recent information, where you can get Govnt people armed to the teeth invading peoples personal property for coming off the fucking grid, or collecting water, or selling vegetables for fucks sake.

This is happening, and its very very real

Anyone who believes the plight of turtles is the issue here, are fooling themselves, IMHO. Agenda 21 has a lot more currency with me here. I guess that people know that there are turtles, but dont know about agenda 21.

Not that I have anything against the need to save turtles, along with the rest of us, but you know.....

[Iamwhomiam]

Not that it really matters, but do you happen to have a link to substantiate any of your claims below?

Im taking this perspective from recent information, where you can get Govnt people armed to the teeth invading peoples personal property for coming off the fucking grid, or collecting water, or selling vegetables for fucks sake.

This is happening, and its very very real

Or perhaps you've found some document proving the property Bundy's occupying is actually his "personal property"?

I really want to support this guy, but without sound legal rationale, I cannot.

Edited to add, they are tortoises, not turtles!

[Sounder]

You know, you're right Iamwhomiam, I am a shithead sometimes, I apologize and will work to improve my behavior.

This thing, to me is about clearing rural folk off the land so that corporate methodologies can be imposed on a still wider percentage of the population.

Yes Agenda 21, the final institutional step to assert as being normative, the right of the corp/state partnership to define the 'proper' expression of Being for every citizen.

Functionally speaking, it cannot work anyway simply because that is not how consciousness works.

As happened with the Soviets, things fall apart when there is all take and very little give.

[Sounder]

Fuck i fell off the wagon already, I tried, but the devil insisted.

I feel like pointing out a difference in our outlooks Iamwhomiam. You seem to let ideology do your thinking for you. For my part, I don’t give a rats ass for Harry Reid, Chinese solar power ambitions, Cowboys or this drama. You seem to see one ‘side’ as being bad, so the other must be ‘good’, or at least worth defending. I see both as having potential good but mostly, realized bad because both ‘sides’ are caught up in dichotomous thinking.

The effect of that kind of thinking is to become easy pickings to be manipulated.

Its going to be hard when you find out how thoroughly supportive your underlying ideology is for the purposes of slave makers, but hey maybe that’s some dissonance to be dealt with later.

Others however may generate the fortitude to grapple with this most unpleasant truth.

If you are one of those folk, please get to cracking, the future of humanity depends on YOU.

[Zombie Glenn Beck]

If the actions of the government in this case are unconstitutional, why dont all the patriots pool their resources together and hire a lawyer to challenge it? You know, like the constitution says they should.

[Sounder]

http://moralmatters.org/tag/senator-har ... emus-reid/

No matter what side of the AISLE you’re on, THIS is ……FUNNY!

Judy Wallman, a professional genealogy researcher in southern California , was doing some personal work on her own family tree. She discovered that Senator Harry Reid’s great-great uncle, Remus Reid, was hanged for horse stealing and train robbery in Montana in 1889. Both Judy and Harry Reid share this common ancestor.
The only known photograph of Remus shows him standing on the gallows in Montana territory:

On the back of the picture Judy obtained during her research is this inscription: ‘Remus Reid, horse thief, sent to Montana Territorial Prison 1885, escaped 1887, robbed the Montana Flyer six times. Caught by Pinkerton detectives, convicted and hanged in 1889.’

So Judy recently e-mailed Senator Harry Reid for information about their great-great uncle.

Pic of the notorious and obstructionist (extortionist) US Senate leader, Harry Reid.
(at link)

Believe it or not, Harry Reid’s staff sent back the following biographical sketch for her genealogy research:

“Remus Reid was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory. His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad. In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the renowned Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889, Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed.”

NOW THAT’s how it’s done, Folks! That’s real POLITICAL SPIN!!!

[jingofever]

Snopes: Claim: A distant relative of a prominent politician was a horse thief and a train robber. FALSE

Again: Claim: Senator Harry Reid and a Chinese company building a solar plant are behind a standoff between federal agents and a Nevada rancher. FALSE

[Sounder]

Thanks for that jingofever, bad post on my part, sorry.

This event strikes me as being a data gathering operation, checking to see the response to abuse, and to distract from the Ukraine situation.

Which is exponentially larger in its level of impact on our sorry souls.

[Sounder]

The corp/gov state would like to thank all diligent commenters for their efforts in support of the state.

Well, they would like to thank you, but that would sort of give away the game.