Zizek On This Wild Election...and His Interesting Point

[Luther Blissett]

The thing is that Žižek knows exactly what a proto-fascist white nationalist movement looks like. He's lived through it. He needs to get out and talk to some klansmen or something. Based on his life, if he's still more afraid of the imperialist, that's saying something.

I've seen the guy lecture. He's fairly coherent at a 2-hour clip.

Debs definitely would not have voted for either of the two mainstream candidates.

[Wombaticus Rex]

I've seen the guy lecture. He's fairly coherent at a 2-hour clip.

That's a pretty low bar.

8bit, what was Zizeks "Interesting Point" ?

[brekin]

The thing is that Žižek knows exactly what a proto-fascist white nationalist movement looks like. He's lived through it. He needs to get out and talk to some klansmen or something. Based on his life, if he's still more afraid of the imperialist, that's saying something.

Yes, that be saying more about him though. Many philosophers are attracted to fascist/nationalist regimes because they love order, structure, and the dispersal of one thinking operating system to the masses. This goes back to Plato's Philosopher King. Philosophers hope to change behavior by their writings influencing the masses whereas Kings (Dictators) do change the masses behavior with their writings (fiats).

Zizek is a Trumpist simply because Trump can say exactly what the fuck he thinks, and is celebrated for doing so, without having to mush it up in a Lacanian, Marxist, Hegelian, crypto-Stalinist, mush and then spoon feed it to hipsters. The only time Zizek is honest is when he has a momentarily fit of rage and slips into the zone where Trump reigns supreme.

Trump is a populist psychic dictator touring stadiums, Zizek is still playing colleges.

Zizek: "I hate people! I don't want to understand people!"
https://youtu.be/cKyXE4cLijE?t=3m6s

[Joao]

The thing is that Žižek knows exactly what a proto-fascist white nationalist movement looks like. He's lived through it.

Could you elaborate, please? I don't know much about Zizek the man but I wasn't aware that any such movement was ever of significance in Slovenia, and I'm not sure I'd characterize nationalism in other post-Yugoslav states quite that way. Thanks.

Interesting article that goes beyond merely dismissing Zizek as a charlatan, and casts him in a dark light:

When Ernesto Laclau wrote back in 2000 that Žižek’s anti-democratic ideas would put the Left back half a century he was too generous. The “revolution” Žižek seeks — whatever fancy new language is deployed to camouflage this — is a Blanquist putsch to prepare an Educational Dictatorship. Engels dismissed that as “Crude Communism” 168 years ago.

[Edited to correct a typo.]

[Iamwhomiam]

...even though Drumpf is an elite, and well connected.

No! He is not an elite! He's a wannabe who the elite momentarily were thinking about recognizing but after the effects of their 3 martini lunch wore off and they came to their senses, they all had a good laugh, and then tried to blame each other for having suggested it.

Seriously, Donald isn't close to being considered "elite."

It's hard to even consider him "rich."

[brekin]

...even though Drumpf is an elite, and well connected.

No! He is not an elite! He's a wannabe who the elite momentarily were thinking about recognizing but after the effects of their 3 martini lunch wore off and they came to their senses, they all had a good laugh, and then tried to blame each other for having suggested it.
Seriously, Donald isn't close to being considered "elite."
It's hard to even consider him "rich."

Huh?

Trump came from a very wealthy and connected family which loaned, gave and bequeathed to him millions.
His only job in life was working for his father's real estate empire.
He grew up living in elite neighborhoods and going to elite schools and colleges.
His father's and his connections in business, politics, mafia, and entertainment were of the elite which he made ample use of.
He's traveled in elite circles his whole life and has built casinos, restaurants, buildings worldwide.
He's owned sports teams, a university (of sorts), beauty pageants, television shows and many see him positioning himself to start a media company and has been an entertainment figure with single name recognition for almost 40 years.
By wealth or income he's definitely in the 1% no matter how shady he is with his financial holdings, or how much he inflates and conflates his wealth, with estimates in income and holdings fluctuating between 200 million to 7 billion, still safely within the 1%.

It's like saying a multimillionaire with full spectrum influence who is the twisted combination of Oprah, Steve Wynn, Conrad Hilton, Ted Turner, & Silvio Berlesconi isn't part of the elite.

Trump didn't win the American Idol version of the Republican primary on some fluke.
He's actually more connected, in many more ways, than a lot of the other candidates were.
Trump is not a joker, he is a very serious and deadly clown.



Donald Trump Is the Epitome of the Washington Elite He Claims to Hate
http://time.com/4377225/donald-trump-washington-elite/

Trump regularly trashes the political system he has spent his career cozying up to and taking advantage of. Trump hasn’t been shy about his eagerness to give money to politicians of all stripes in exchange for favors. Since the 1980s, Trump has given more than $1 million to officials on the national stage he thought could advance his business interests, with no regard for their political party or ideology. He built much of his impressive real estate empire by giving money to New York politicians in order to get favorable treatment.

“It has not been easy for me,” Trump has said. “I started off in Brooklyn, my father gave me a small loan of a million dollars.”
His comments show just how out of touch he is. In reality, Trump’s father was one of the most successful and wealthiest men in the country when Trump was beginning his career. The idea that he’s just an “average Joe” is ludicrous. How many average Americans get a “small” million-dollar loan to begin their careers? And the reality is, Trump got far more than that, both in loan guarantees from his father and millions in un-cashed casino chips.
Trump has also helped use his money and power to further the careers of his loved ones. In 1982, Trump helped his sister, Maryanne Barry, get a federal appointment, according to a report. Trump had his attorney, the late Roy Cohn, lobby a White House aide in order to make sure his sister landed the job.

Donald Trump Says US Robbed by 'Elite' He 'Used to Be' Part Of
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-t ... d=40185448

While standing in front of an unusual backdrop of what appeared to be stacked bales of crushed aluminum, Trump slammed globalization and said that it made "the financial elite" very wealthy, noting that "I used to be one of them. Hate to say it."

[8bitagent]

Trump wasnt just born with a silver spoon...he was a golum forged out of a silver spoon factory. Of course he's an elite.

But...a "TPTB" elite? Seems to me that the entire Bush/neocon/security state/wall street/international financial and WW3 bend psychopaths are fully behind Hillary Clinton.

Bernie was right when he pointed out Hillary brags of her friendship and mentoring under Kissinger.

If Obama was Bush Lite, Hillary will be Bush on steroids.

Now I have long considered the most brilliant mind in America when it comes to public philosophy, to be Dr Cornell West.
Here Zizek and West have a friendly back and forth


Both Zizek and West appeared in the seriously good documentary "Examined Life"

[Luther Blissett]

The thing is that Žižek knows exactly what a proto-fascist white nationalist movement looks like. He's lived through it.

Could you elaborate, please? I don't know much about Zizek the man but I wasn't aware that any such movement was ever of significance in Slovenia, and I'm not sure I'd characterize nationalism in other post-Yugoslav states quite that way. Thanks.

Interesting article that goes beyond merely dismissing Zizek as a charlatan, and casts him in a dark light:

When Ernesto Laclau wrote back in 2000 that Žižek’s anti-democratic ideas would put the Left back half a century he was too generous. The “revolution” Žižek seeks — whatever fancy new language is deployed to camouflage this — is a Blanquist putsch to prepare an Educational Dictatorship. Engels dismissed that as “Crude Communism” 168 years ago.

[Edited to correct a typo.]

I was referring in part to some of the strains of fascist nationalism that led to the Yugoslav wars, but was more directly talking about his exposure to and awareness of proto-fascist white nationalist movements in Europe since - Pravy Sektor, that sort of thing.

I'm not sure I'd call him a trumpist directly based on what he actually said. I would based on the headlines. Maybe, I don't know.

[kelley]

that's zizek at his most rhetorically hyperbolic.

at his core, he's anti-statist and unafraid to attack the left along with the right.

'first as tragedy, then as farce' covers alot of this territory familiar to the 'election' and a trump candidacy avant la lettre. it's focused, concise, intelligent, witty, and mercifully short, with none of the ya-yo meandering of his bigger efforts.

[Joe Hillshoist]

There is an outsider wildcard aspect about Trump that Zizek really nails here. I'll bet that many Trump supporters know what a douche he is, that he is lots of bad things, but look on him like a grenade to roll into the boardroom of the elite and hope it goes off.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Dennis Braveheart ...

[Joe Hillshoist]

I'm more interested in what JP Anderson has to say about this election tbh.

[brekin]

Slavoj Žižek Explains Why He Chose Trump
or alternatively titled:
The Flailing Man

[Elvis]

He may be of the elite financial class, but—and this is a big part of his mainstreet appeal—Trump has a middle class mindset. Along with a narcissistic personality and a few million dollars to act out the middle class fantasy.

As I've said before, "middle class" is a state of mind, and those American middle-class longings and insecurities are what Trump has stirred up.


I say, Eradicate the Middle Class - By Any Means Possible. (Maybe I'll start a thread!)

[brekin]

He may be of the elite financial class, but—and this is a big part of his mainstreet appeal—Trump has a middle class mindset. Along with a narcissistic personality and a few million dollars to act out the middle class fantasy.
As I've said before, "middle class" is a state of mind, and those American middle-class longings and insecurities are what Trump has stirred up.
I say, Eradicate the Middle Class - By Any Means Possible. (Maybe I'll start a thread!)

I'd say he has middle class appeal, but I can't imagine he has a middle class mindset. The guy is a anachronistic throw back to the robber baron mindset. Maybe for those in the middle class who go to Reno or Las Vegas for the weekend and dream of winning big and living there permanently in a fever dream of broads, steak dinners, bourbon, and gambling where they can call up and tell off anyone whoever pissed them off share his mindset. Which come to think of it, we are probably all susceptible to depending on how much one is in touch with the lizard bit of ones brain.



But the "middle class mindset" I'm mostly familiar with, dreams of owning your own home, having a family, running your own small business, being able to pay for your children's education, being able to afford quality food, live in a safe neighborhood, etc. is not delusional nor grandiose nor kitsch fascist. Some of those who aren't able to do the above, through no fault of their own or their own, are probably susceptible to revengeful dreams of getting even, humiliating levels of power, and thinking they are better than everyone else and that this new J.R. resurrected from the dead will make this country great again, and them again, by knighting thousands of little J.R.'s.



But that is not how J.R.'s roll.

[Elvis]

The historical Middle Class (especially in the U.S.) never outgrew its desire to imitate nobility, nor has Trump: the ostentatious wealth display, the gaudy gold, the competition for status, bragging about how rich he is, the insecurities; he named his kid Baron.


Being content with "owning your own home, having a family, running your own small business, being able to pay for your children's education, being able to afford quality food, live in a safe neighborhood, etc." is much more a working class mindset.