Texas Walmart mass shooting in El Paso gun attack

[seemslikeadream]

lbeckman

These photos aren’t from the WalMart in El Paso, but 2 others in TX. How are other shoppers supposed to know if they are just carrying an accessory or if they’re about to open fire and murder 20?! There’s no way to know until they actually start shooting.




https://twitter.com/lbeckman/status/1157826414546173952

Seth Abramson
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I hadn't realized until today that concealed-carry laws can create mayhem during mass shootings in a way that has nothing to do with crossfire: bystanders will report anyone brandishing a gun as a possible shooter—meaning first responders have no idea how many suspects there are

The deadliest mass shootings in modern U.S. history

People watch the procession carrying the body of Ventura County Sheriff Sgt. Ron Helus, who was killed in the mass shooting
People watch the procession carrying the body of Ventura County Sheriff Sgt. Ron Helus, who was killed in the Thousand Oaks mass shooting. Photo: David McNew/Getty Images
A shooting at a Walmart near the Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso, Texas is one of the deadliest mass shootings in modern American history.

The big picture: Mass shootings are becoming deadlier. The deadliest shooting 10 years ago left 16 people dead. The toll from the 2017 shooting at Las Vegas hotel is 58.

America's deadliest modern mass shootings

Route 91 Harvest music festival, Las Vegas, October 2, 2017: 58 killed, 527 injured.

Pulse, Orlando, Fla., June 2016: 49 killed and more than 50 injured.

Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Va., April 2007: 32 killed and 17 injured on campus.

Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Conn., December 2012: 26 killed.

First Baptist Church, Sutherland Springs, Texas, November 2017: 26 killed.

Luby's Cafeteria, Killeen, Texas, October 1991: 23 killed.

McDonald's, San Ysdiro, Calif., July 1984: 21 killed.

Walmart, El Paso, Texas, August 3, 2019: At least 20 killed, 26 injured.

Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Fla., February 2018: 17 killed.

University of Texas Tower, Austin, Texas, August 1966: 16 killed around campus.

Inland Regional Center, San Bernardino, Calif., December 2015: 14 killed.

Edmond post office, Edmond, Okla., August 1986: 14 killed.

Fort Hood, Fort Hood, Texas, November 2009: 13 killed.

Columbine High School, Littleton, Colo., April 1999: 13 killed.

Binghamton Civic Association, Binghamton, N.Y., April 2009: 13 killed.

New Jersey neighborhood and local shops, Camden, N.J, September 1949: 13 killed.

Schoolhouse Lane neighborhood and Heather Highlands Mobile Home Village, Wilkes-Barre, Pa., September 1982: 13 killed.

Wah Mee club in the Louisa hotel, Seattle, Wash., February 1983: 13 killed.

Century 16 movie theater, Aurora, Colo., July 2012: 12 killed, 58 wounded.

Navy Yard, Washington, D.C., September 2013: 12 killed, 8 wounded.

The Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, Calif., November 2018: 12 killed, several wounded.

Virginia Beach Municipal Center, Virginia Beach, Va., May 31, 2019: 12 killed.
https://www.axios.com/deadliest-mass-sh ... 367f1.html

What was the senator from Texas trying to imply in June?

Senator John Cornyn
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@JohnCornyn
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Texas gained almost nine Hispanic residents for every additional white resident last year https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/20 ... ium=social … via @TexasTribune

[DrEvil]

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DrEvil:

Guys like him are probably responsible for most of the "multiple shooters" stories.

I'll have to disagree with you there, as many reports of multiple shooters typically describe individuals in close proximity to each other, equipped with similar/same weaponry, and more often than not, in similar attire.

Per stillrobertpaulsen's news article above:

She said she saw four men, dressed in black, moving together firing guns indiscriminately.

"Moving together". "Dressed in black".

Sounds very similar to active shooter training drills given to military and police depts, which include instructions to move together as a unit.

Interesting, some of the notions here appropriating these vile acts to the average American, and further, the claim that if guns can be removed from the average citizen -- if we enact restrictive legislation -- these tragedies can be minimized, if not avoided.

In an ideal society, perhaps.

Have to disagree with this. You don't need an ideal society, as the suggestions I made above are, with some variations, the norm in the rest of the developed world, and not surprisingly, things like this almost never happen there. It's just common sense: harder to get guns = harder to go on a shooting spree.

Surely I dont need to issue a spoiler alert here in RI that our society/cultural mindset is, in fact, far from ideal?

The reasons for our ills stretch far beyond hand tools utilized to commit violence.

[seemslikeadream]

Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley: “The shooter was able to kill 9 people and injure 26 in less than a minute.”

Trump admin will apparently not renew program to fight domestic terror
The Trump administration had already canceled a grant for a group that fights white supremacist terror.
Oct. 31, 2018, 11:53 AM CDT
By Laura Strickler

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... or-n926361

[Belligerent Savant]

Have to disagree with this. You don't need an ideal society, as the suggestions I made above are, with some variations, the norm in the rest of the developed world, and not surprisingly, things like this almost never happen there. It's just common sense: harder to get guns = harder to go on a shooting spree.

Mindsets in place in the U.S., broadly, differ from the other societies you allude to, where certain measures may be largely accepted.

There's an underlying conditioning in place here in the States that's distinct, arguably to most other societal constructs.

That's not to say it can't be altered. But it certainly won't be as simple as enacting new legislation. Numerous other factors are at play here.

[seemslikeadream]

we will just have to wait till how many mass shootings are each day?

3 ...5....10 what is the unacceptable number?

[82_28]

We really are, myself included, are becoming numb to this. It is verging into the territory of saying "oh is that right, another one?" Personally I do not ascribe to that, but I do feel the numbness coming on.

[Luther Blissett]

I’m definitely in the camp of “it’s a lot of factors” given the nearly unfathomable difference in the pace of these things in the U.S. compared to other countries. Unless of course it’s just cosmic and unknowable. I’m even willing to accept the gnostic as one factor.

There’s definitely something happening between these imaginary lines on a map. Would solving the crisis of capitalism make any difference? I feel like it would at least start to work towards a solution and is a prerequisite for every other factor commonly named: gun control, white supremacism, chauvinism and mass socio-sexual frustration (or whatever), etc etc. At the heart of it really seems to be a failure of an almost-500-year old failed experiment starting with the transatlantic slave trade in the colonies.

[DrEvil]

Have to disagree with this. You don't need an ideal society, as the suggestions I made above are, with some variations, the norm in the rest of the developed world, and not surprisingly, things like this almost never happen there. It's just common sense: harder to get guns = harder to go on a shooting spree.

Mindsets in place in the U.S., broadly, differ from the other societies you allude to, where certain measures may be largely accepted.

There's an underlying conditioning in place here in the States that's distinct, arguably to most other societal constructs.

That's not to say it can't be altered. But it certainly won't be as simple as enacting new legislation. Numerous other factors are at play here.

I agree it's not just guns, but the easy access to them is definitely a heavily contributing factor. Other places people just can't get their hands on them that easily (and when they can it's usually a bolt-action hunting rifle and not a high capacity semi-automatic), so any number of people who want to go on a shooting spree can't, so they rant on the internet or go stab someone instead.

Changing it would probably take a generation or two with a lot of bloodshed because a lot of people have an almost fetishistic relationship to their guns. Taking them away is like cutting their balls off.

[Belligerent Savant]

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I can appreciate that stance, but having easy access to guns does not, by itself = temptation to use said gun(s) to shoot and kill random humans. And again, that's assuming the reason for all these shootings are based only on 'lone gunman' scenarios; at least a few of these incidents suggest Intel ops in play. Any incident that may involve intel ops renders the entire "easy gun access" argument invalid.

The frequency of these events point to a greater underlying societal issue/disease. The causes may involve underlying subtle or overt societal conditioning over time, or in some instances, explicit intel operations involving mind control or related control mechanisms, or a combination of these and other factors.

One last important point: although our gun laws may not be as restrictive as those in place in other countries, U.S. gun laws have demonstrably become more restrictive, incrementally, over time. And yet mass shootings have only increased.

So, essentially, instances of mass shootings in the U.S. have INCREASED over time as more gun laws/related legislation have been enacted. I recall sharing statistics along these lines in a gun thread here. Mass shootings were rare in this country until about 20-30 yrs ago, when an uptick began in earnest.

Removing guns from registered gun owners equates to whacking at branches while ignoring the root.

There's more going on here.

[82_28]

Or the impetus to even have one at all. I realize I live in some liberal city but there are plenty of gun owners. However, the impetus to think you have to have one, for safety, for fun or for death is stupid as fuck. But if everyone has a gun then I guess you're the stupid one not having one. I remember one time when I was a kid and some older jocks wanted to fight me and I had fist spikes on me. All I said was "trust me you don't want to do this" and that was that. I have never been in a fight in my life but knowing I had a gun or he had a gun, who knows what would have happened? Different times I suppose. Bear in mind as well that this was a few short years from Columbine, down the street from me. Even between the jocks and me (us) back then, having a gun between any of us was unheard of. Then it fucking exploded. I'm only two years older than Harris and Klebold. It just was unheard of as we all know. Believe it or not but I come from the same neighborhood as the Columbine killers and the founders of South Park (the cartoon). It was a weird time out there. We're all around the same age. Some went one way and some the other I guess in order to get shit off their chest -- kill or satirize. They say Harris was on Luvox (SSRI) and that scared the fuck out of me because I was on that shit too! Luvox did eventually make me feel crazy and I weaned off it.

[elfismiles]

They trigger each other.

The covert op angle only requires an external individual/group to help push someone already on the edge, over it. And don't it always feel like everyone is always trying to push you over that edge...

But it takes a certain kind of soulless jerk to actually do it. But sadly humanity is filled with a lot of soulless jerks available as ammunition.

what on earth is triggering these people!

[DrEvil]

.

I can appreciate that stance, but having easy access to guns does not, by itself = temptation to use said gun(s) to shoot and kill random humans. And again, that's assuming the reason for all these shootings are based only on 'lone gunman' scenarios; at least a few of these incidents suggest Intel ops in play. Any incident that may involve intel ops renders the entire "easy gun access" argument invalid.

The frequency of these events point to a greater underlying societal issue/disease. The causes may involve underlying subtle or overt societal conditioning over time, or in some instances, explicit intel operations involving mind control or related control mechanisms, or a combination of these and other factors.

One last important point: although our gun laws may not be as restrictive as those in place in other countries, U.S. gun laws have demonstrably become more restrictive, incrementally, over time. And yet mass shootings have only increased.

So, essentially, instances of mass shootings in the U.S. have INCREASED over time as more gun laws/related legislation have been enacted. I recall sharing statistics along these lines in a gun thread here. Mass shootings were rare in this country until about 20-30 yrs ago, when an uptick began in earnest.

Removing guns from registered gun owners equates to whacking at branches while ignoring the root.

There's more going on here.

I think you just hit on an important point. Mass shootings have increased in frequency the last 20-30 years, which also happens to be the time-frame in which the internet has become widely available. The crazies no longer sit and stew in a basement alone, they have a world-wide community of like-minded people egging them on and serving up justifications for their actions. It's a lot easier to do something when you have a whole host of others backing you up and cheering you on and the knowledge that at least some people will see you as a hero.

It's like a distributed, self-organizing cult, and instead of having a single leader and a top-down hierarchy it has nodes of influence spread all over. Take out one node and the rest just reorganize and reinforce around the other nodes.

On top of that you have the capitalist system getting more and more unbalanced and creating more and more grievances, an insane healthcare system and ready access to guns. Even if gun laws have become stricter the US still has more guns per person than any other place on Earth, about 120 guns per 100 people. You could literally arm every man, woman and child and have millions of guns to spare.

[82_28]

Yeah, but that begs the point of why people like ourselves somehow got sifted out of that hopper. There have to be other factors involved. I'm on the Internet basically 24 hours a day (have to use it for work on the phone) have enjoyed playing the old FPS here and there, like old skool gangsta rap and even some grindcore "death metal". Really, by all metrics, I should get turned onto this shit. I still don't get it and none of us ever will.

[Belligerent Savant]

.


DrEvil:

Mass shootings have increased in frequency the last 20-30 years, which also happens to be the time-frame in which the internet has become widely available

Absolutely - good call; it's a metric I should have more explicitly pointed out earlier.
The rise of social media apps, in particular, is like a crystal meth catalyst for those that would otherwise keep most of their brooding/negative thoughts to themselves.

Not only do they have a platform to anonymously --- and therefore without reservation -- broadcast their inner thoughts, but now their thoughts have the potential for amplification, for consensus agreement, or on the other end of spectrum, the potential for acute/targeted bullying tactics by other anonymous handles, which sometimes is all it takes for certain more fragile/'triggered' mindsets to go off the deep end, harming themselves and/or others, fatally or otherwise.

For these reasons, intel ops [or anyone, thanks to the 'empowerment' of the internet] needn't do nearly as much work as they may have in the past. As Elfismiles alluded above, all it may take is the calculated equivalent of a butterfly flapping its wings to unleash a mental tsunami in the minds of certain predisposed individuals.

[This, in an era when citizens freely share all manner of personal/private information on the web to be indexed and aggregated, subject to all manner of analytics by dark and/or for-profit entities]

Many of the rest of us, as 82 suggests, can only observe in awe and dread.

[DrEvil]

Yeah, but that begs the point of why people like ourselves somehow got sifted out of that hopper. There have to be other factors involved. I'm on the Internet basically 24 hours a day (have to use it for work on the phone) have enjoyed playing the old FPS here and there, like old skool gangsta rap and even some grindcore "death metal". Really, by all metrics, I should get turned onto this shit. I still don't get it and none of us ever will.

Yeah, but as far as I can tell most of us here are reasonably sane. I also spend way too much time online, play FPS games and listen to black metal, but I don't have the slightest desire to go out and shoot random people.

The main differentiating factor is mental health imo. Most people don't have it in them to do something like that, but a very few do, and now they have an approving audience and easy access to the tools needed, and probably an extra nudge from dark actors every now and then if it gets too quiet or a distraction is needed.