Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby cptmarginal » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:58 pm

divideandconquer wrote:
Though "notarized affidavit statements from eight eyewitnesses to these crimes, including videotaped interviews with two adolescent women" does make these claims seem pretty substantial, from one side of things.


Maybe, but I don't think that's enough for even the aware and informed. A thoroughly checked out history of these eight eyewitnesses and their affiliations is a good start. I just find it hard to believe that the Pope, or Jorge Bergoglio, was raping and torturing adolescent women in front of eyewitnesses while at the same time, chopping up newborn babies and drinking their blood, as late as 2010. If he's that evil, why not kill all these potential eyewitnesses?

To me, it appears as if the ITCCS--or Kevin Annett-- is hyping this trial with extreme claims that are impossible to prove, especially against a very popular Pope. Does Annett really believe he can arrest the Pope and the Queen of England? False hope, anyone? Nevertheless, it seems a bit delusional. Yeah, the more I think about this whole thing the more I think Kevin's ego either clouds his judgment or is the story, especially after I found out the Mohawk nation, or the Elders of Kanyen’kehá:ka Nation relieved Kevin Annett of all further authority and took back the name they gave him, which was Rawennatshani.


I'm not saying that this ITCCS.org "Public Information Update" is enough to convince me of anything. Just that it's better than only having some anonymous testimony - though of course we have not been made privy to any of the actual content of those statements. It's also a sensitive privacy issue, understandably. Frankly, I don't believe any of it at this juncture - mostly on the basis of intuition and finding Annett's behavior to be somewhat dodgy.

On the other hand, the extremity of the alleged crimes doesn't necessarily preclude me from accepting that they happened. No matter how many different fictional versions have been invented of a "Satanic Illuminati," with royals and other prominent figures sacrificing people, I still think it's a warped version of some kind of truth. The whole extended story surrounding the Dutroux case in Belgium really drove home that possibility for me, and this latest accusation from Annett's organization even includes the Belgian royals among the so-called "defendant" cult members.

But talking about this is pretty much worthless without being able to confirm specific things ourselves, like the value of these records for example:

As part of the Prosecutor’s corroborating evidence, secret archives from the Jesuit Order were introduced into the Court record that describe in detail the so-called “Magisterial Privilege” compelling the participation of every new Pope in the Ninth Circle sacrifice of new born children.

The records suggest that the Ninth Circle was established by the Jesuits just prior to their staged “disbandment” in 1773 and their establishment three years later of the so-called Illuminati cult, although references are also made to organized child sacrifice rituals at Catholic cathedrals in Rome as early as the year 1528.

The Chief Prosecutor told the Court,

“These archives clearly indicate a premeditated plan for centuries by the Jesuits to ritually murder kidnapped newborn babies and then consume their blood, born of a twisted notion of deriving spiritual power from the lifeblood of the innocent and thereby assuring the political stability of the Papacy in Rome. Every Pope was expected to and did in fact participate in these monstrous rituals … These acts are not only genocidal but systemic and institutionalized in nature, and indict the Roman Catholic Church and the Jesuits as a whole, and every Pope since at least in the year 1773.”

The same collection of Jesuit archival records make reference to a child sacrificial cult known as The Knights of Darkness, established by the Nazi Waffen S.S. Division in 1933 with Jesuit backing. The archives identify former Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, as a member of the Knights and as an S.S. Chaplain’s assistant at the Ravensbruck concentration camp in Germany, where he participated in sacrificial rites using children transported to the camp or kidnapped from political prisoners.

The latter practice was a common Jesuit undertaking in Spain, Argentina and other fascist regimes, and one implicating chief defendant Jorge Bergoglio while he was a priest, Bishop and front man for the military junta in Argentina during the 1970′s.


From that breathless description it wouldn't surprise me at all if these documents were very ambiguous in meaning or even altogether spurious. And I get the impression that they won't be made public, anyway. In any case it's a dead end until more information is made available.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:19 am

justdrew » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:57 pm wrote:but hey, some asshole thought it would be a good idea to waste hundreds of pounds of chocolate making a replica of him

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-meets-life-sized-chocolate-replica-article-1.1604406


I'm waiting to see if he's going to duke it out with Tarcisio Bertone over his new mansion, it seems like a good issue to deflect critical attention away from the real problems of the Catholic church. As seen multiple times recently with news items about bishops living in multimillion dollar houses. Somehow that's considered more interesting news in some corners than, say, huge IOR money-laundering scandals for example.

Refusing to meaningfully engage with the objections to the canonization of John Paul II is a real damn problem. It's even weirder for Francis to be personally taking charge of reforming the Legionaries of Christ and appointing long-time members to senior Vatican positions. If there's some reason that he has to go along with these things, why not just speak up and tell us? "Bertone's got me by the balls."

He's a damage control pope, but that's probably so obvious at this point that it's hardly worth mentioning. Here's hoping it all leads to a little bit less poison in the world from these people, maybe a peaceful decline. Or maybe we'll just get a reorganized and secure Vatican banking system that can safely continue funding global right-wing covert operations and laundering black market proceeds.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:23 am

http://inserbia.info/today/2014/04/holo ... orge-pell/

Holocaust loot appeal to Cardinal George Pell

April 22, 2014

New Vatican Economic Secretariat has Power to Act on Vatican Bank Claims

VATICAN CITY – An appeal by Holocaust survivors and their heirs from former Yugoslavia and Ukraine has been sent to Cardinal-Prefect George Pell.

Cardinal Pell was recently appointed by Pope Francis to head up the new Vatican Secretariat of the Economy with unprecedented power over secretive Vatican finances including the troublesome Vatican Bank.

Since 1999 the Holocaust survivors have been requesting the scandal plagued Vatican Bank audit accounts alleged to contain Holocaust era assets looted from the Balkans and Ukraine. About 30 current and former Vatican Bank accounts have been identified as suspect including accounts controlled by the Franciscan Order and various Dioceses.

The appeal also includes declassified documents from the US National Archives requested in 2000 but only produced 12 years later which establish both the British and Americans were certain the Vatican was harboring a major Nazi war criminal, Ante Pavelic, the brutal ruler of World War Two era Croatia. Pavelic was the source of the Ustasha Treasury which consisted of funds looted from Serbs, Jews, Roma, and Ukrainians during the genocide of over 500,000 people in wartime Yugoslavia.

Dr. Jonathan Levy, who is the attorney for several thousand claimants, Holocaust victims, their heirs, and organizations, has repeatedly criticized the Vatican and other financial authorities for the impunity granted the Vatican Bank. According to Dr. Levy: “The Vatican Bank has refused all requests for an accounting. The European Union Commission, European Central Bank, Vatican Financial Authority, MONEYVAL, and the US Courts have all entertained our requests but ultimately declined them due to lack of jurisdiction over the Vatican Bank.”

Dr. Levy also noted that his firm’s investigations and ensuing litigation which commenced in 1998 has uncovered a Vatican Bank connection to looted assets from other countries including Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania.

Cardinal George Pell was recently appointed by Pope Francis to head a new financial structure to coordinate and oversee the finances of the Holy See and Vatican City State. The Holy See Press Office has stated Pell’s new organization has the express power: “To conduct audits of any agency of the Holy See and Vatican City State at any time.”

According to Dr. Levy, this would include the Vatican Bank and perhaps is the good news the Holocaust survivors and their families have been waiting for since 1998.

Cardinal Pell has been viewed as an advocate for interfaith reconciliation.

The majority of the claimants to the Ustasha Treasury are Orthodox Christian Serbs and Roma who were shut out of the major Holocaust monetary settlements.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby cptmarginal » Wed May 07, 2014 4:49 pm



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/world ... abuse.html

U.N. Panel on Torture Presses Vatican Envoy on Abuse

By NICK CUMMING-BRUCE MAY 5, 2014

GENEVA — The Vatican faced sharp questioning by a United Nations panel on Monday about whether it failed to abide by an international treaty against torture in its response to the sexual abuse of children by priests.

In the hearing, Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s representative in Geneva, immediately found himself at odds with members of the panel, the Committee Against Torture, over the Holy See’s view that it is responsible for applying the treaty only to the few hundred inhabitants of the Vatican City state.

Another United Nations panel, on the rights of children, rejected that argument in February, saying that the Vatican’s responsibility for carrying out human rights treaties extended to every person and institution under the Roman Catholic Church’s authority around the world. The children’s rights committee accused the church of putting its reputation and interests ahead of those of children.

If the Committee Against Torture reaches a similar conclusion, its report could undermine one of the main obstacles to holding the church accountable for clerical sexual abuse, victims’ advocates say.

Felice D. Gaer, the vice chairwoman of the committee, said the convention against torture was signed by the Holy See, which represents more than just the Vatican City state. Never before, she said, had a party to the convention tried to limit its application to just one part of itself.

What the committee wanted, Ms. Gaer told the archbishop, “is simply that you show to us that as a party to the convention, you have a system in place to prohibit torture and ill treatment as defined by the convention, when it is perpetrated or acquiesced to by anyone under the effective control of the officials of the Holy See and the institutions that operate in the Vatican City state.”

Pope Francis announced the formation of a commission in December to advise on combating sexual abuse. Cardinal Sean P. O’Malley of Boston, briefing journalists over the weekend, said the panel would issue clear and effective protocols that would hold accountable any senior clerics or officials who did not report suspected abuse.

Victims of sexual abuse by members of the clergy are skeptical of these initiatives.

“The Holy See has consistently sidestepped real accountability and serious reform,” the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights, acting on behalf of the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, said in a submission to the United Nations panel. It noted that a set of guidelines issued by bishops in Italy this year and approved by the Vatican “explicitly states they are not required to inform law enforcement authorities if they suspect a child has been sexually assaulted.”

“Pope Francis and the bishops are not taking action that would protect children,” Barbara Blaine, president of the survivors network, told journalists in Geneva on Friday, calling at a minimum for removal of priests involved in abuse. “These simple acts would protect hundreds of thousands of children across the world.”

The Vatican’s chief spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said last week that moves to link the child abuse scandal to the issue of torture were a “deceptive and forced” effort by nongovernmental organizations “with a strong ideological character.” He warned that United Nations conventions risked losing their authority and “being reduced to tools of ideological pressure.”

Appearing before the panel, Archbishop Tomasi took a different position, acknowledging the treaty as “a valid and suitable instrument for fighting against acts that constitute a serious offense against the dignity of the human person” and describing sexual abuse as a global problem that must be addressed.

“There has been a stabilization and decline in cases of pedophilia,” he told the panel. “The church has to do its own cleaning of the house, and it has been doing it for the past 10 years.”


Oh really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/world ... ecade.html

Vatican Tells of 848 Priests Ousted in Decade

By NICK CUMMING-BRUCE MAY 6, 2014

GENEVA — The Vatican has dismissed more than 800 priests for sexual abuse of children in the past decade and paid billions of dollars in compensation, senior Vatican officials told a United Nations panel on Tuesday, presenting the Roman Catholic Church as a model of reform but drawing the ire of victims’ groups that said it still seeks to dodge responsibility for the harm that priests continue to inflict.

The extraordinary disclosures were made on the second day of hearings by a United Nations committee in Geneva reviewing the Vatican’s compliance with an international treaty prohibiting torture. Church officials faced blunt questions about the measures taken to punish priests who abuse children and the church’s willingness to cooperate with civil authorities in punishing such crimes.

Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s representative in Geneva, stuck resolutely to a narrow interpretation of the treaty on torture, saying it applied to the Holy See only in the case of the few hundred residents of Vatican City. But he spoke of a new culture in the church over tackling sexual abuse.

He told the panel that in addition to 848 priests dismissed between 2004 and 2013, 2,572 members of the clergy had been disciplined for sexual abuse, putting children beyond their reach.

Compensation by Catholic dioceses and religious orders to victims since 1950 has amounted to about $2.5 billion, Archbishop Tomasi said, detailing about $125 million in other payments for therapy and other expenses related to investigations and litigation. To protect children, the church has spent $260 million in the past decade on background checks of priests, he said.

The barrage of statistics accompanied a broader argument that the Holy See is committed to “cleaning house” and has turned a corner on practices that Archbishop Tomasi repeatedly linked to the culture of times past.

“We must not be fossilized in the past,” he said after being asked about transfers of priests from diocese to diocese that enabled them to escape investigation and prosecution. “This was a policy practiced decades ago, mostly.”

“It’s clear that the issue of sexual abuse of children, which is a worldwide plague and scourge, has been addressed in the last 10 years by the church in a systematic, constructive, effective way,” he told the panel, holding up the church’s record as a model of good practice that other institutions might consider.


So the number is actually around 3,500 over ten years - and that's just the ones who were disciplined.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby divideandconquer » Wed May 07, 2014 8:42 pm

Here's what I find a little disconcerting: mainstream media's green light to expose the pedophilia scandals connected exclusively--it seems--to the Catholic Church. The UN's (not to mention other institutions) massive ongoing pedophilia scandals have not received 1% of the media attention that the Catholic Church has received. Talk about the pot calling the kettle...

So where is the mainstream media when it comes to exposing the specially privileged and diplomatically immune institutions like the UN who has allowed sexual abuse/exploitation of children on a massive scale throughout the decades, not to mention the slaughter and genocide it has sanctioned. Look into the horrifying two-year UN war against Katanga (Congo) that took place in the early 1960s. http://www.peacekey.com/1-1-a/UN_Web/1_UN_Book/The_Fearful_Master_Contents.htm Where is the mainstream coverage of Agenda 21?

Don't get me wrong. I find the actions--or lack thereof--of the Vatican and Catholic Church hierarchy atrocious. I'm just trying to understand why the Catholic Church is the only institution on the front page concerning this issue. Why is it suddenly okay to vilify the all-powerful Catholic Church?
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby BrandonD » Thu May 08, 2014 12:12 am

divideandconquer » Wed May 07, 2014 7:42 pm wrote:Here's what I find a little disconcerting: mainstream media's green light to expose the pedophilia scandals connected exclusively--it seems--to the Catholic Church. The UN's (not to mention other institutions) massive ongoing pedophilia scandals have not received 1% of the media attention that the Catholic Church has received. Talk about the pot calling the kettle...

So where is the mainstream media when it comes to exposing the specially privileged and diplomatically immune institutions like the UN who has allowed sexual abuse/exploitation of children on a massive scale throughout the decades, not to mention the slaughter and genocide it has sanctioned. Look into the horrifying two-year UN war against Katanga (Congo) that took place in the early 1960s. http://www.peacekey.com/1-1-a/UN_Web/1_UN_Book/The_Fearful_Master_Contents.htm Where is the mainstream coverage of Agenda 21?

Don't get me wrong. I find the actions--or lack thereof--of the Vatican and Catholic Church hierarchy atrocious. I'm just trying to understand why the Catholic Church is the only institution on the front page concerning this issue. Why is it suddenly okay to vilify the all-powerful Catholic Church?


I was just discussing this subject today. It is very odd, the selectivity of the exposure. According to what I've learned, pedophilia/child abuse is a hugely prominent problem in all "closed" organizations, which of course includes all the major religions. But it seems that only catholicism gets the spotlight. Perhaps it is because catholicism is so large that they know they can survive the backlash, so they don't bother with damage control?
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby DrEvil » Thu May 08, 2014 1:08 am

divideandconquer » Thu May 08, 2014 2:42 am wrote:...
So where is the mainstream media when it comes to exposing the specially privileged and diplomatically immune institutions like the UN who has allowed sexual abuse/exploitation of children on a massive scale throughout the decades, not to mention the slaughter and genocide it has sanctioned. Look into the horrifying two-year UN war against Katanga (Congo) that took place in the early 1960s. http://www.peacekey.com/1-1-a/UN_Web/1_UN_Book/The_Fearful_Master_Contents.htm Where is the mainstream coverage of Agenda 21?
...


You conveniently forgot to mention who wrote the stuff at your link: G. Edward Griffin, a life long Bircher and peddler of woo cancer cures. Not to mention his attitudes towards socialism that would make McCarthy proud.

There is no mainstream coverage of Agenda 21 because there's nothing to cover.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby justdrew » Thu May 08, 2014 1:14 am

and bashing catholics has been an american protestant tradition since inception.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby conniption » Thu May 08, 2014 5:50 am

Oriental Review

The Scheme for Souls: Yatsenyuk’s Visit to the Vatican

Sat, May 3, 2014
By Andrew KORYBKO (USA)

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Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk meets with Pope Francis during a private audience at the Vatican April 26, 2014. (Reuters)

The historically Orthodox lands of modern-day Ukraine have been the realm of spiritual competition since the Catholic Poles and Lithuanians began to colonize them in the 14th century. As part of its scheme for souls, the Pope artificially created the so-called “Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church” or Uniate Church. Greek Catholics are essentially very similar to their Orthodox brothers and sisters with the important exception that they follow the Pope. This makes them a deceptive tool of the Pope for self-interested use on Orthodox territory. Against this historical backdrop and the current West-Russia rivalry over Ukraine, Ukrainian junta leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk visited Pope Francis on 26 April. He offered limitless proselytization opportunities for Catholic expansion into Ukraine (possibly including the closure of Orthodox churches), but due to a few strategic factors, the Pope turned down this proposal. Even so, an examination into this attempt at fostering Catholic subversion in Orthodox Ukraine is necessary in order to underline the behind-the-scenes forces conspiring for control over the country.

Such a contemporary examination first and foremost needs to deal with fellow coup leaders Yatsenyuk and Turchynov and their religious beliefs. Unlike the majority of their Orthodox compatriots, these two are Scientologists and Baptists, respectively. This has important implications for Ukrainian identity, since the two junta masters do not represent the traditional faith of the people they are dominating. This also has strong implications for the large Russian minority in the country which ascribes to Orthodoxy. Yatsenyuk and Turchynov are more likely to continue their repression against anything that is associated with Russia and Russians, including their religion, since they have no identification with the Orthodox faith that is a prime characteristic of Russian civilization. Yatsenyuk’s “religion” (if it can even be called that) of Scientology marks him as an ideological extremist in the Russian Federation, since its cult-like works were banned as extremist in 2012. The Moscow Regional Court at the time declared that the texts “foster the creation of an isolated social group, whose members are taught to precisely carry out commands, many of which are aimed at confronting the outside world”.

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This must always be kept in mind when analyzing Yatsenyuk and his actions. The court was spot-on when it declared that Scientologists are “taught to precisely carry out commands” because this perfectly defines Yatsenyuk. One must simply recall the Nuland scandal where the Assistant Secretary of State for Europe confided to the US’ Ukrainian Ambassador that Yatsenyuk was the puppet of choice to lead in a post-Yanukovich Ukraine. Since the coup, Yatsenyuk has stayed true to his Scientologist principles of carrying out commands by obediently following Vice President Joe Biden and CIA Chief John Brennan’s dictates. His compliancy to powerful outside interests is what motivated him to travel to the Vatican to find yet another patron in the Pope.

The public explanation for Yatsenyuk’s Vatican visit was to attend the canonization of two former popes as Catholic saints, however, the real purpose was to secure a private meeting with Pope Francis. The entire event was scarcely reported in any media outlets at well, suggesting that it was meant to be kept relatively confidential. The brief meeting took place for only 18 minutes, during which the International Catholic News Weekly reports that Yatseniuk and Francis “discussed the specific role that religious organisations could play in fostering mutual respect and harmony”, with the Vatican making an official statement that “Mention was made of possible further initiatives by the international community in this regard.” As a symbolic gesture of where his true allegiances lie, Yatsenyuk ended his visit by attending service at a Uniate Church. He left the Vatican before the canonization itself under the false auspices that he needed to manage the crisis in Eastern Ukraine. This was obviously an excuse, further underlining that the whole purpose of his visit was to meet with Francis and nothing more.

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Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Svyatoslav Shevchuk at the Vatican on April 26.

There is much more significance to Yatsenyuk’s visit than meets the eye at first glance, and the International Catholic News Weekly’s description of the event and the Vatican’s official statement provide a glimpse into what really went on behind closed doors. What had occurred is that Yatsenyuk offered the Pope unhindered proselytization access to Ukraine in exchange for political and moral support. Additionally, considering that there are numerous Catholic Churches (especially in Western Ukraine) that were confiscated during the communist period, there is also the probability that he offered to return the lands to Rome in exchange for financial assistance. After all, the restitution of Catholic (and other Christian) property in Ukraine has been an unresolved issue for some time, although some progress was legally being made in the past few years. It is both feasible and probable that Yatsenyuk would unilaterally move to reach a deal with the Pope. Such a deal would also encompass the removal of Orthodox parishes, which would be the religious variant of the junta’s recent lustration initiatives.

Francis thankfully rejected Yatsenyuk’s tempting proposals, although it cannot be said that he did so out of selfless reasons. The Pope clearly understands that the Catholic Church cannot realistically compete with the Orthodox one on the latter’s home turf. Doing so would dramatically endanger the delicate relations between the Pope and Moscow’s Patriarchy, and such a gambit would only be attempted if the odds of success were extraordinarily increased. This is obviously not the case under the “Yatsenyuk Yoke” that is occupying the country. He and his regime represent almost no one in Ukraine, and there is no telling whether Yatsenyuk will be imprisoned in the Hague in the next few months or whether Ukraine as it is understood as today will even exist at all as a result of his junta’s disastrous policies. Thus, Francis had no reason to take Yatsenyuk seriously, since the probable costs were exceedingly higher than the near-impossible gains that would have resulted from this dastardly deal.

The odd episode of Yatsenyuk’s voyage to the Vatican is a firm indication of the regime’s desperation for support. Knowing that his grip over the country is rapidly slipping, he wanted to secure religious and moral backing for his cronies’ occupation. In some sense, he may have even been motivated by Pope John Paul II, whose explicit support for anti-Soviet activity in Poland gave “the support of God” to those opposed to Moscow. Yatsenyuk may have deliriously envisioned a similar relationship evolving between him and Francis as had been the case with Walesa and John Paul II. But communist-era Poland in the height of the Cold War is not the same as Ukraine in the post-unipolar present, and Solidarity leader Walesa is not the same as the neo Nazi-allied coup leaders. Although Francis pragmatically calculated that it would be insanity to repeat John Paul II’s subversive actions under the current conditions, it is not to say that wouldn’t have if the “prize justified the risk” and the regime’s hold on power were more entrenched.

Andrew Korybko is the American Master’s Degree student at the Moscow State University of International Relations (MGIMO).
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby semper occultus » Fri May 09, 2014 3:10 am

cptmarginal » 24 Apr 2014 03:58 wrote:On the other hand, the extremity of the alleged crimes doesn't necessarily preclude me from accepting that they happened. No matter how many different fictional versions have been invented of a "Satanic Illuminati," with royals and other prominent figures sacrificing people....


...and also chimes with long-held allegations from that other rather dodgy ecclesiastic & Jesuit insider Malachi Martin :

http://www.vatileaks.com/_blog/Vati_Leaks/post/Satanism_in_the_Vatican/

The same collection of Jesuit archival records make reference to a child sacrificial cult known as The Knights of Darkness, established by the Nazi Waffen S.S. Division in 1933 with Jesuit backing. The archives identify former Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, as a member of the Knights and as an S.S. Chaplain’s assistant at the Ravensbruck concentration camp in Germany, where he participated in sacrificial rites using children transported to the camp or kidnapped from political prisoners.


...interesting.....Menegele was ofcourse a devout Catholic by background

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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri May 09, 2014 4:44 pm

Interesting turn. Anything to get the machine into a tizzy:

Pope Francis calls for wealth redistribution
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu May 15, 2014 9:27 am

Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'

Pontiff made the out-of-this-world pledge during homily on acceptance
ADAM WITHNALL Author Biography Tuesday 13 May 2014

Pope Francis has said that he would be willing to baptise aliens if they came to the Vatican, asking “who are we to close doors” to anyone - even Martians.

In a homily yesterday dedicated to the concepts of acceptance and inclusion, Francis recalled a Bible story about the conversion of the first pagans to Christianity, according to reports on Vatican Radio.

He said Catholicism was a church of “open doors”, and that it was up to Christians to accept the Holy Spirit however “unthinkable” and “unimaginable” it appeared.

Describing how, according to the Bible, Peter was criticised by the Christians of Jerusalem for making contact with a community of “unclean” pagans, Francis said that at the time that too was “unthinkable”.

“If, for example, tomorrow an expedition of Martians came to us here and one said ‘I want to be baptised!’, what would happen?”

Clarifying that he really was talking about aliens, the Pope said: “Martians, right? Green, with long noses and big ears, like in children’s drawings.”

Francis said that Christianity had struggled from its earliest stages with the temptation to reject “the living presence of God” in various forms.

But he added: “When the Lord shows us the way, who are we to say, ‘No, Lord, it is not prudent! No, let's do it this way’. Who are we to close doors?”

While Francis appears to have taken the argument to its logical extreme, this is not the first time that the Vatican has raised the prospect of baptising extra-terrestrial beings.


Speaking at the British Science Festival in 2010, one of then-Pope Benedict XVI’s astronomers said he would baptise an alien “if they asked”. While he accepted that the chances of ever getting such an opportunity were slim, Guy Consolmagno said: “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul.”


‘Modern’ Pope Francis turns to old-school exorcism to fight the scourge of secularism
By Sophia Deboick, The Guardian
Monday, May 12, 2014 10:33 EDT

As Mother Teresa lay in a Calcutta hospital the year before she died, her violently disturbed sleep became intolerable, her doctors seemingly unable to help. The problem, the visiting Archbishop of Calcutta suggested, was not a medical matter but something altogether more sinister: this living saint was being attacked by the devil. It was only after an exorcist was called that peace was restored.

That a woman regarded as so holy could have been subject to diabolical visitations was reported with surprise. Yet, if a course for Catholic clergy that took place in Rome last week is anything to go by, exorcism is far from rare. The programme trains about 200 priests a year in the ancient rite. For outsiders, exorcism appears anachronistic, a throwback to the superstitions of the middle ages. What the scale of last week’s course shows, however, is that the devil is alive and kicking in Pope Francis’s apparently modernising church.

In recent decades, the church has been surprisingly vocal on the issue. In 1975, the former Roman Inquisition published a study called Christian Faith and Demonology, with the aim of making the reality of the devil clear. Three years earlier, Pope Paul VI – surely a man of the modern age, given his 1968 encyclical prompted by the contraceptive pill and the miniskirt – said evil “is a living spiritual being, perverted and corrupting” and certainly not “a conceptual and imaginary personification of the unknown causes of our ills”. Just last Tuesday, Francis himself put great emphasis on the role of the devil when speaking of the protomartyr Saint Stephen, saying that the “struggle between God and the devil” was apparent in the persecution of the church’s people. For the hierarchy, the devil is not to be forgotten nor softened into a metaphor.


Meanwhile, modern holy people have kept the devil alive in the Catholic popular imagination. The 20th-century saint Padre Pio encountered him as a smoke-breathing dog and a naked dancing girl, also reporting being dragged from his bed by demonic forces. And the French mystic Marthe Robin, who died only in 1981, apparently lost two teeth as a result of the devil punching her in the face.

The devil continues to be as useful for the modern church as he has been in the past, when he bolstered the case for the burning of heretics. The concept now provides a dramatic way to underscore the dangers of a godless society. The organiser of last week’s course, Dr Giuseppe Ferrari, argues that a rise in the number of people abandoning religion and dabbling in the occult has increased Satan’s power. As head of the Gruppo di Ricerca e Informazione Socio-Religiosa, a Catholic organisation concerned with the threat posed by cults and sects, Ferrari says good exorcists are needed more than ever, since: “We live in a disenchanted society, a secularised world that thought it was being emancipated, but where religion is being thrown out, the window is being opened to superstition and irrationality.”

This seems like an extreme position, but it is in perfect alignment with Francis’s views, which go further than his brief mentions of the devil last week suggest. In his very first homily as pope, delivered in the Sistine Chapel on the day after his election, Francis bluntly quoted the French author and Catholic convert Léon Bloy: “Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil.”

In its biblical guises – Lucifer as chief of the fallen angels, the dragon of Revelation, the serpent in the Garden of Eden, or the tempter of Jesus in the wilderness – the idea of a supreme embodiment of evil is one that will always endure. And in the church’s battle against secularism, the devil may have found a valuable new role.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby semper occultus » Tue May 27, 2014 10:38 am

Pope Francis's cunning likening of paedophilia to a satanic mass

The pontiff's carefully chosen comparison shows his determination to excise the cancer of paedophilia

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/27/pope-francis-paedophilia-satanic-mass

Joanna Moorhead
theguardian.com, Tuesday 27 May 2014 14.44 BST

Like every journalist who has ever been on a trip with the pope on board Shepherd One, as his plane is known, I am in no doubt as to the significance of the in-flight press conference. Being part of the Vatican press entourage means you're up close to the pontiff, but you hardly ever get an unscripted quote – even Francis is very carefully handled by media managers.

But the traditional papal press conference in the clouds is a rare chance for him to speak off the cuff, and yesterday he did. "A priest who has sex with a child betrays God," he told assembled journalists. "A priest needs to lead children to sanctity, and children trust him. But instead he abuses them, and this is terrible. I compare it to a satanic mass."

This last comparison is significant. While Pope Francis is a man of gestures, he knows there are some issues on which words really count, and none more so than the vexed, and continuing, issue of child abuse.

The former Argentinian cardinal spelled it out in a way all clerics – however far from Rome and however out of touch with the current clean-up operation – will understand. No Catholic priest in his right mind would think of officiating at a satanic mass, a ritual that inverts the worship of God to pay homage instead to the devil. Satanic masses have their roots in medieval times, and have historically been a way of both ridiculing and undermining the authority of the church. They are also the biggest shock tactic imaginable to any Catholic cleric: they are diametrically opposed to everything the church stands for: the ultimate evil.

It is still, of course, strange indeed that any priest would think that performing a satanic mass is worse than committing child abuse, or that it's worse than covering up when another priest has committed child abuse. But, weird though it sounds, priests with that mindset do exist in the Catholic church, even in the 21st century. So although he was talking to journalists on his flight home from the Middle East, Pope Francis was really speaking to the ordained men he leads – and in the clearest possible terms, with a comparison any one of them could understand. There is no excuse any more, he was saying. Don't think you are ever, in any circumstances, protecting the church by covering up these crimes, because you aren't. "A priest who does this betrays the body of the Lord," he said.

These words show that Pope Francis means to tackle the paedophilia problem head-on. It won't be easy, and he must know that better than anyone – as the UN said in a report on the Vatican's handling of the crisis, preserving the church's reputation has been placed above the protection of children, time and again, over recent years. The attitude the UN identified is systemic: it is ingrained into many clerics that cover-ups are better than admissions of guilt for the church, and it is that mindset that Francis has to change.

Any priest who betrays the body of the Lord, like any priest who performs a satanic mass, isn't really a priest at all. As Francis said, the time has come for zero tolerance.

His wider reforms are, slowly, beginning to change the Catholic church, and in the long term there is much to hope for. But nothing is really possible until the cancer of paedophilia within it has been properly excised. Francis has picked up his scalpel and shown he means business. We all have to hope now that the operation – which won't be easy – is a success.
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby norton ash » Tue May 27, 2014 10:45 am

ROME — Pope Francis said Monday that he plans to celebrate a Mass with a small group of victims of sexual abuse in the coming weeks and to hold a private meeting to hear from them, a session in which Cardinal Sean P. O’Malley of Boston will also take part.

Francis also revealed that three Catholic bishops are under Vatican investigation for matters related to sexual abuse, citing those inquiries as proof that there will be no “daddy’s boys” in the clergy who enjoy special privileges on his watch.

Francis did not make it clear whether those three bishops are being investigated for abuse they are alleged to have committed or for an alleged failure to respond properly to possible abuse by others.

The pope made the comments in a press conference during his return flight from Jerusalem to Rome, at the conclusion of a three-day trip to the Middle East.

Francis used strong language to denounce the sexual abuse of children by clergy, calling it a “very grave crime” and saying that when a priest subjects a child to abuse, it is as if the priest has celebrated a “black Mass” as part of a Satanic ritual.

“We must go forward with zero tolerance,” the pontiff said.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/ ... story.html

Black Mass as part of a Satanic ritual. Now why would Pope Francis choose that strange metaphor for sexual abuse?
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Re: Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

Postby RocketMan » Wed May 28, 2014 6:48 am

norton ash » Tue May 27, 2014 5:45 pm wrote:
ROME — Pope Francis said Monday that he plans to celebrate a Mass with a small group of victims of sexual abuse in the coming weeks and to hold a private meeting to hear from them, a session in which Cardinal Sean P. O’Malley of Boston will also take part.

Francis also revealed that three Catholic bishops are under Vatican investigation for matters related to sexual abuse, citing those inquiries as proof that there will be no “daddy’s boys” in the clergy who enjoy special privileges on his watch.

Francis did not make it clear whether those three bishops are being investigated for abuse they are alleged to have committed or for an alleged failure to respond properly to possible abuse by others.

The pope made the comments in a press conference during his return flight from Jerusalem to Rome, at the conclusion of a three-day trip to the Middle East.

Francis used strong language to denounce the sexual abuse of children by clergy, calling it a “very grave crime” and saying that when a priest subjects a child to abuse, it is as if the priest has celebrated a “black Mass” as part of a Satanic ritual.

“We must go forward with zero tolerance,” the pontiff said.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/ ... story.html

Black Mass as part of a Satanic ritual. Now why would Pope Francis choose that strange metaphor for sexual abuse?


It is sort of a forced metaphor. Most intriguing! I wonder if he didn't say it just to get it out there.

Man, I'm still scared they're going to go all John Paul I on his ass before he does more damage. :scaredhide:
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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