American Dream » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:02 pm wrote:82_28 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:53 am wrote:So, cut to the chase AD. What are your immediate reccomendations? Seriously. What are your immediate reccomendations? Not being a dick and certainly not calling you out, just spell out what you think for your fellow members.
Your point is well taken. It is what it is- that's really the best I can say. Jakell's advocacy of Keith Preston is clearly not in accord with the anti-fascist guidelines of this board, but where do we go from here?
The best thing I can see to do is to get clarity from jakell what further advocacy of fascist/racist types causes he will or will not be doing here. but he has been extremely elusive about these things.
He has had many opportunities to make truly clear comment on the situation but up until now he has- in effect- declined.
82, I have always respected you as a guy whose heart is in the right pace and who wants to do the right thing and who listens to people.
So when from my point of view, I see your sincerity answered with something us Brit's refer to as being 'Decidedly economical with the truth..' I need to speak my truth in a forthright manner.
I would like to spell out that question, but as applied to American Dream.
American Dream's posting behaviour is clearly to me not in accord with the first paragraph of the guidelines of this board, but where do we go from here?
When I read this
The best thing I can see to do is to agree a a statement that
get clarity from jakell what further advocacy of fascist/racist types causes he will or will not be doing here. but he has been extremely elusive about these things.
I see an attempt to put jakell in a double bind
Bind Part A
When he DID respond to you and challenge YOU on YOUR ideology AND your Argumentation by CopyPasta', you ran whining to WIllow, who responded by prohibiting jakell from continuing in that way.
In your posts, you constantly try to reframe his behaviour as 'trolling' and 'really negative'.
Those are FRAMING techniques, not objective descriptions.
Bind Part B
Then when jakell had his 'communication hands' tied byu Willow, you launched a large number of consecutive posts: 'well look how evasive his is, oooh he isnt reponding, look he still isnt'
(Personally, I thought the only thing missing was to taunt him by poking him with a pointy stick)
82, you want to see a model RI way of interacting? Observe bph and jakell interacting.
There is no evasion, no disrespect and real rigourous engagement.
Then read AD's exchange with jakell in this thread. Seriously, just skim over it.
82, if a person has binary logic, then what is against what they passionately believe, MUST be their potential enemy.
Not(Not(A)) = A
Please consider this... - I read several posts on Keith Preston's site and think they are lucid and well written and have interesting points. I also thing that they are very poorly thought through as regards their consequences, consequences which would be very negative- and a completely non-viable political philosophy. I gave a detailed post on WHY I came to those conclusions. I knew nothing about NA, having bugger all interest in anarchism of ANY variety. It is on the first page of this thread.
When I posted it, I asked jakell what he thought and he agrees with my take. So THAT is advocating Keith Preston????
As Justin Raimondo coined, that is fucking BizarroWorld.
jakell HAS has made his philosophy REALLY clear and that is he is aligned with John Michael Greer, who is a.. fucking Druid. And who writes great thought provoking anti-fascist articles .
CODA
Also 82, this is not new.
When I first indicated an interest in Annunaki / Credo Mutwa in some long-gone Icke thread, I was given the third degree - identical to jakell's - OOh Searcher is being *evasive* about his relationship with David Icke, Oooh he is not being clear enough.... Oooh Dont you know Reptilians means... Joooz! (WTF??!!) Searcher you are being 'sketchy' on far right tropes (WTF?!!)
Icke had had as much influence on and significance in my life as copy of National Geographic in a dental surgery waiting room. It was like having a fellow customer stand up and start yelling "YOU cant read THAT HERE, It is YELLOW!!"
Err, whut?!!
"YELLOW! WHY are you READING IT?" etc etc
It was as exasperating as fuck, I felt I enter a 'The TRial by Kafka - ESPECIALLY because AD had been a poster who had brought LOADS of great diverse stuff here!!!
The only practical online anti-fascist strategies I have seen from RI have come from... jakell
What would I do?
I would re-write the posting guidelines. and create a Posting Best Practice.
He has had many opportunities to make truly clear comment on the situation but up until now
he has- in effect- declined.
82, You know about weasel words from critical thinking...
He has had many opportunities-
OPPORTUNITIES? HOW?
to make truly clear -
CLEAR BY WHOSE STANDARD?
PRESUPPOSES: THAT WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENETED UP TO NOW ISNT CLEAR
comment on the situation
"SITUATION" IS LEFT AS A NOMINIALISATION
WHEN IT IS NOT COMMONLY AGREED (Fails the wheelbarrow test - we can agree on what aball is - we can put it in a wheelbarrow - OTOH a nominalisation like 'the situation' cannot be put in a wheelbarrow - AD is assuming his understanding is the only one)
Up until now
(**) Frame what comes after as being true over a time period.
he has - in effect- declined
IN EFFECT, HOW SPECIFICALLY?
DECLINED HOW?
HOW WOULD 'DECLINING' BE DIFFERENT FROM 'IN-EFFECT' DECLINING?
When I have challenged language like this, which is so vague as to be useless for anything except political hypnosis, the response has been to NOT help to get to a clearer description (which could be easily done) but to question my logic skills, thinking ability, sincerity and WUSO-FARRT (where u stand on far right tropes)
Sure RI is about Rigour AND Intuition AND
that EACH of us may have DIFFERENT meanings of those and RESPECT that? The first word on RI is 'Welcome'
- not
"You will be required to pass an public ideological purity inspection. "Where do you stand on far right tropes. ANSWER the question!"
If one person demands everyone else to follow THEIR meanings, that is not a collegial relationship, it is a relationship of trying to dominate another's thinking.
Imposition of ideology for the greater good.... sounds decidedly... fascistic, no?
Enantiodromia - the tendency for a thing to turn into it's opposite
(**)
If I said "Up until now, 82 has farted a lot..."
this creates multiple presuppositions
that not just 82 has been farting,
but has been pooting over a time period to the present.
In fact, 82 may have been quite wind free.
