Russian military buildup in Syria...

[82_28]

82:

But there has to be some form of central casting who is in firm command of propaganda

Invoking risk of beligerant attack from the Rigorous, I suggest that Intuition may serve to enlighten you. Listen to it.

Voting for a republican? Voting for or discerning who the best republican is? I have no horse in this race other than sketchy support for Sanders on the D side.

[coffin_dodger]

82:

But there has to be some form of central casting who is in firm command of propaganda

Invoking risk of beligerant attack from the Rigorous, I suggest that Intuition may serve to enlighten you. Listen to it.

Voting for a republican? Voting for or discerning who the best republican is? I have no horse in this race other than sketchy support for Sanders on the D side.

The same central casting office is responsible for both sides of the aisle.
Full spectrum dominance isn't just for the battlefield. It's a state of mind. A state of State.

[82_28]

That is why I threw in the modifier of "sketchy" for Sanders.

[Luther Blissett]

Robert Reich inadvertently talking Central Casting:

The other night I phoned a former Republican member of Congress with whom I'd worked in the 1990s on various pieces of legislation. I consider him a friend. I wanted his take on the Republican candidates because I felt I needed a reality check. Was I becoming excessively crotchety and partisan, or are these people really as weird as they seem? We got right into it:
Me: "So what do really you think of these candidates?"
Him: "You want my unvarnished opinion?'
Me: "Please. That's why I called."
Him: "They're all nuts."
Me: "Seriously. What do you really think of them?"
Him: "I just told you. They're bonkers. Bizarre. They're like a Star Wars bar room."
Me: "How did it happen? How did your party manage to come up with this collection?"
Him: "We didn't. They came up with themselves. There's no party any more. It's chaos. Anybody can just decide they want to be the Republican nominee, and make a run for it. Carson? Trump? They're in the lead, and they're both out of their f*cking minds."
Me: "That's not reassuring."
Him: "It's a disaster. I'm telling you, if either of them is elected, this country is going to hell. The rest of them aren't much better. I mean, Carly Fiorina? Really? Rubio? Please. Ted Cruz? Oh my god. And the people we thought had it sewn up, who are halfway sane -- Bush and Christie -- they're sounding almost as batty as the rest."
Me: "Who's to blame for this mess?"
Him: "Roger Ailes, David and Charles Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh. I could go on. They've poisoned the American mind and destroyed the Republican Party.
Me: "Nice talking with you."
Him: "Sleep well."

[AlicetheKurious]

I spoke with a retired pilot last night. Incidentally, he used to regularly fly the Egyptair plane that was destroyed flying out of New York in 1999. He mentioned that the Russian plane that crashed in Sinai around a week ago was fully fueled, which means that it was carrying around 45 tons of gasoline.

I'm no expert, but if a plane carrying 45 tons of gasoline is destroyed by a bomb "in its cargo hold", wouldn't that result in a huge fire?

Yet none of the recovered bodies were burned, and in fact many were found intact and still strapped into seats.

Here's a photo of some of the luggage that was on the downed plane.



It doesn't look burned to me. In fact, it's in pretty good shape for luggage that hit the ground after free-falling more than 30,000 feet.

Again, I'm no expert, but there's a minimum of logic that needs to be respected, when communicating with rational persons.

[Occult Means Hidden]

Says RT

Check out the videos at the link to hear for yourself how convincing the US' "evidence" is. Especially the first video, starting at 5:00 minutes. It's comedy gold.

US cites ‘press reports’ & secret ‘operational data’ as proof of Russia striking Syrian hospitals
Published time: 30 Oct, 2015 00:45
Edited time: 30 Oct, 2015 15:18

The US maintains that Russian airstrikes hit hospitals and caused collateral damage in Syria. However, when asked to provide supporting evidence, Washington said that it bases its allegations on “press reporting” and unconfirmed accounts from “civil society groups.”

“We have seen some press reporting to that end. We have seen some Syrian civil society groups says that,” US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said. He did not name any specific organization or news outlet.

Instead, Kirby stressed that the US also has some “intelligence and operational information” but he firmly refused to share it.

“I’d tell you that we have some other operational information that lead[s] us to believe that Russian targeting has not only not been focused on ISIS/ISIL but has in fact caused collateral damage and some civilian casualties, to include some civil infrastructure,” Kirby said.

When asked by RT reporter Gayane Chichakyan to “offer something more solid” in terms of evidence that would support Washington’s beliefs, Kirby said: “No, I’m not going to talk about that.”

Kirby was then asked if he thinks the evidence should be made public. In response, he stressed that he just did so.

The US State Department has also refused to say if Washington has ever shared its intelligence showing that it hit hospitals with Russia.

“I’m not going to read out our diplomatic discussions and I’ve answered your question, and I think I’ve gone as far with it as I’m going to go,” Kirby said.

In the past, the US has been forthcoming with its evidence against Russia supporting alleged attacks.

In the meantime, Red Cross personnel on the ground in Syria could not confirm or deny whether any airstrikes allegedly delivered by Russian jets had struck hospitals “in the absence of any firsthand information.”

“We’ve seen these reports as well, but in the absence of any firsthand information coming from our teams on the ground, I can neither confirm, nor deny these allegations,” Dominik Stillhart, director of operations at the International Committee of the Red Cross, told RT. Link

You cite a Russian government warfare agency through an official Russian news outlet as proof of what you claim is objectivity, I point this out and again you cite RT? Well, let's check the Guardian. Here we have a third party country's "independent" news outlet getting figures from three named NGOs, the Medical Relief in Syria, Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations and the Physicians for Human Rights.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... octors-say

Interesting that the RT article doesn't mention those NGOs.

[coffin_dodger]

OMH:

The Guardian... Here we have a third party country's "independent" news outlet

[Occult Means Hidden]

Not sure how else to describe them. I hesitate to call any major news network truly independent. Let alone the UK as a third party. Still, it is a degree removed from the horse's mouth.

[82_28]

They sure were able to source the stakes and barbed wire right quick in order to corral the undamaged luggage in the middle of a desert. I'd imagine that would be pretty difficult to do in a remote location quickly. But maybe not.

Looks like someone was theoretically prepared with what is needed for possibly a planned event.

[coffin_dodger]

OMH:

Still, it is a degree removed from the horse's mouth

It isn't. Just isn't.

The press in the UK report on what is handed to them by government press departments, especially from warzones.

This is a joint UK/US operation in Syria.

[Occult Means Hidden]

It is by definition, Coffin. A modicum of separation exists, no matter how tenuous. I'm aware of the counter-argument. But this is a discussion about semantics, which can be lengthy and tiresome. I won't de-rail down that road any further.

[backtoiam]

Alice I am totally onboard with you on this one. It would be hard to convince me that that picture is a pile of luggage from a real plane crash. I have seen too much plane crash footage to even start to believe it. In a real plane crash, that luggage would be trashed beyond being recognized as a NEAT LITTLE PILE.

I don't believe it, and I won't. That shit would be strowed all over hell and busted all over the place. Clothes would be scatter for a quarter of a mile. I don't buy that picture. I'm dumb, but I ain't buying that picture.

And, why didn't we get a wide angle view so we could see all the destruction? That photo reminds me of a political rally, in which all is shown in small view, but the whole view not shown. That is not luggage from a plane crash. I don't believe it.

[AlicetheKurious]

You cite a Russian government warfare agency through an official Russian news outlet as proof of what you claim is objectivity, I point this out and again you cite RT? Well, let's check the Guardian. Here we have a third party country's "independent" news outlet getting figures from three named NGOs, the Medical Relief in Syria, Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations and the Physicians for Human Rights.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... octors-say

Interesting that the RT article doesn't mention those NGOs.

Neither did the US State Department Spokesman John Kirby, when he was questioned about the sources on which the US State Department based its allegations. You could have judged for yourself, if you had actually watched the video embedded at the link (especially the first video starting at 5:00), how accurately RT describes what he said. It was the US State department that chose, quite deliberately, not to mention those NGOs. For good reason, it seems, since their records don't exactly qualify them as credible sources.

Do check out the link I provided earlier. Forget RT. Just listen to Kirby himself, and see how unconvinced even he seems to be. Almost embarrassed.

Regarding "Medical Relief in Syria", as the Guardian calls it, there's no such organization. There is, however, "Medical Relief for Syria", a rather mysterious entity. Other than a suspiciously vague description of its work on its own website, and on its Facebook page, I could find no independent mention of its work. Not one specific achievement, no identifying details about what it does, only one or two generic photos and generalities. As far as I could tell, its only identifiable accomplishment in the real world appears to be providing statements to back up the US' entirely baseless claims that Russia bombed hospitals in Syria.

Physicians for Human Rights is an Israeli organization that describes itself as engaging in "research and field investigations" world-wide (actually almost exclusively Muslim-majority and some African countries), to "bring to light" human rights abuses and war crimes, though never by Israel.

As for Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations (USMRO), it doesn't differ much from the first two in the sense that there is no evidence that it has actually helped any Syrian victims of the foreign-backed conspiracy against Syria. But this isn't the first time it has issued sensationalist, headline-grabbing accusations that are totally unsupported, against those who are actually helping the Syrian people. They did it before, back in 2012:

Between 10,000 and 11,000 volunteers, including Iraqi and Palestinian refugees, are manning across Syria more than 80 Syrian Arab Red Crescent Society (SARC) aid “sub-stations.” These include more than a dozen mobile clinics and pharmacies as well as 10 “on the spot readiness centers.” Depending on the level of localized conflict on any given day, SARC volunteers operate 24/7 anywhere from 6 and 30 ambulances, as they liaise with the Palestine Red Crescent Society volunteers, among others. Since mid-summer, SARC volunteers have been opening centers for psychological support services for children as well as adults. Recently a phone “hotline” has been set-up to help citizens find emergency help. International volunteers are most welcomed at any of SARC’s centers.

SARC’s volunteers have recently been praised by the UN World Food Program and many others for their work delivering humanitarian aid to internal refugees here in Syria. They distribute necessities of life during the chaos and killing to their fellow countrymen without regard to religion or political views. Foreign donor countries giving the most support currently include Germany, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Italy and Britain. Others help as well, including money and foodstuffs from Iran and cash from the American Red Cross, the latter channeled through the ICRC so as not to raise Congressional outcries about possible violations of heavy US sanctions being imposed on the Syrian people.

Founded in 1942, as the French colonizers withdrew from this 7000 year old civilization which they occupied in 1917, as part of the English-French Sykes-Picot arrangement, the Syria Arab Red Crescent society became linked with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in 1946. SARC receives no government funding. This observer had the opportunity to meet SARC staff and volunteers of such singular commitment to helping their countrymen that more than a dozen have given their lives while trying to bring assistance to those stranded in Homs, Aleppo, Idlib, Deraa and elsewhere. One SARC team leader to me: “When one of our people is killed we bury the martyr and by the next morning we have 20 or more new volunteers who want to take their place and bring aid to those trapped in the most dangerous areas. I must tell you that this hell we are living through-we are confronting directly—it has made me very proud of my people and to be Syrian. Enshallah, we will overcome this chaos and killing and we will be stronger than before as a people.”

At the United Nations on 11/5/12, a top relief official said the UN aid effort in Syria, which means mainly SARC’s volunteers, “is very dangerous and very difficult.” The official, John Ging, director of operations of the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, stated that the aid efforts in Syria (mainly being done by SARC volunteers) was supplying 1.5 million people in with food and that nearly half was being delivered into areas of conflict, but “there are areas beyond our reach, particularly areas under opposition control for quite a long time.”

Despite UNCHR’s role in studying the refugee problem and coordinating yet more studies and some registration of aid applicants during the current crisis, some familiar with its activities in Syria, including a few other NGO’s and some Syrian officials, have been critical of its performance to date. One highly respected governmental official told this observer recently, “I said to UNCHR’s local administration, “We have noticed the many fine vehicles that you flew into Syria, and we have met some of the well paid staff that you have brought to help us, but please can you show us that you have to date delivered even one loaf of bread to our desperate people?”

In fairness to UNCHR, after an admittedly slow start in Syria, it has recently picked up steam and its international staff is learning much from the local Syrian Arab Red Crescent volunteers. Nor is SARC is without its critics.

Tawfik Chamaa, spokesman for the Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations (UOSSM) speaking from his comfortable Geneva office issued an ad holmium broadside on 11/6/12 against the Syrian Arab Red Crescent Society and its nearly 11,000 volunteers. He charged that cash or materials sent to SARC was being “confiscated by the regime. It will not reach the civilians who are bombed every day or besieged,” telling reporters in Geneva, “Ninety, even 95 percent of everything that is sent to Syrian Red Crescent headquarters in Damascus goes to support the Syrian regime, especially the soldiers.”

However, according to AFP, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN World Food Program (WFP), which both work closely with the Syrian Red Crescent Society, strongly denied their aid was being seized by the government or anyone else. This observer, during the late night of 11/7/12 contacted “Wassim”, a friend and a volunteer at the Damascus SARC HQ who last week arranged visits for me of SARC aid distribution centers and Wassim also flatly denied the UOSSM report. Wassim informed this observer on the evening of 11/7/12 that SARC will immediately prepare a response to the USOOM allegations.

UOSSM itself has been criticized, as have a few other NGO’s working in Syria, for becoming politicized, polarized and for being inordinately top heavy administratively with bloated salaries and ” humanitarian team leaders” sitting in offices in Paris or Geneva and elsewhere far from Syria. Mr. Chamaa, himself, is a high salaried founding member of the Western group of 14 aid organizations from countries including France, Switzerland, Turkey and the United States. According to SARC volunteers working in field aid distribution centers in Syria, Mr Chamaa could learn more were he to visit Syria and actually observe what’s happening on the ground before making unsupported claims. The UOSSM was set up at the beginning of the year mainly by Syrian doctors living in NATO countries. Some speculate that UOSSM hopes to be part of a possible future NATO affiliated “transition team” while others claim its political charges against SARC volunteers, without proof, are irresponsible and hurt those suffering most in Syria. The reason is because such alarmist press releases tend to damp down much needed donations of medical aid and necessities. This affects directly the 1.5 million people inside Syria who are in need of emergency humanitarian aid.

In response to Charmaa’s sensationalistic headline grabbing charges, UN World Food Program spokeswoman Elisabeth Byrs told the media on 11/7/12: ”I believe there is absolutely no confiscation. WFP food monitors are able to visit most areas to check that food is reaching the people who need it most. Even in some dangerous areas, they use WFP armored vehicles.” She insisted that the Red Crescent, “as the designated coordinator of humanitarian assistance in Syria, operates through branches in an independent manner”.

The ICRC said it was aware of Chamaa’s allegations. Its HQ stated on 11/7/12: “Whenever such facts are clearly established, which does not appear to be the case in Syria, we treat them very seriously and would address directly the management of (the Syrian Red Crescent) and Syrian authorities” ICRC spokeswoman Anastasia Isyuk stressed that the ICRC and the Syrian Red Crescent “strive to assist all populations in need without any discrimination, which is a challenging task given the deteriorating humanitarian situation and security conditions.” The ICRC and SARC volunteers recently managed to deliver medical and food aid to 1,200 people in the Old City of Homs, and since the beginning of the year they have provided food, water and other assistance to more than one million people across Syria, according to ICRC spokeswoman Anastasia Isyuk, and as reported by AFP. Link

Interestingly, according to UNESCO's report on total humanitarian funds for Syria in 2013, the UOSSM received a total of $1,248,895. Less than $1.25 million. That wouldn't leave much for humanitarian work in Syria, after paying those bloated salaries and offices in Paris or Geneva and elsewhere far from Syria. But then, clearly that's not the purpose of any of those shady and mysterious NGOs.

[PufPuf93]

This report from Reuters states that the Egyptian investigators believe the Russian flight was downed by a bomb but that this conclusion is as of yet off the record.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/inv ... ID=DELLDHP



Investigators "90 percent sure" bomb downed Russian flight in Egypt


Investigators of the Russian plane crash in Egypt are "90 percent sure" the noise heard in the final second of a cockpit recording was an explosion caused by a bomb, a member of the investigation team told Reuters on Sunday.

The Airbus (AIR.PA) A321 crashed 23 minutes after taking off from the Sharm al-Sheikh tourist resort eight days ago, killing all 224 passengers and crew. Islamic State militants fighting Egyptian security forces in Sinai said they brought it down.

"The indications and analysis so far of the sound on the black box indicate it was a bomb," said the Egyptian investigation team member, who asked not to be named due to sensitivities. "We are 90 percent sure it was a bomb."

His comments reflect a higher degree of certainty about the cause of the crash than the investigation committee has so far declared in public.

Lead investigator Ayman al-Muqaddam announced on Saturday that the plane appeared to have broken up in mid-air while it was being flown on auto-pilot, and that a noise had been heard in the last second of the cockpit recording. But he said it was too soon to draw conclusions about why the plane crashed.

Confirmation that militants brought down the airliner could have a devastating impact on Egypt's lucrative tourist industry, which has suffered from years of political turmoil and was hit last week when Russia, Turkey and several European countries suspended flights to Sharm al-Sheikh and other destinations.

It could also mark a new strategy by the hardline Islamic State group which holds large parts of Syria and Iraq.

Asked to explain the remaining 10 percent margin of doubt, the investigator declined to elaborate, but Muqaddam cited other possibilities on Saturday including a fuel explosion, metal fatigue in the plane or lithium batteries overheating.

He said debris was scattered over a 13-km (8-mile) area "which is consistent with an in-flight break-up".

"GAME CHANGER"

"What happened in Sharm al-Sheikh last week, and to a lesser extent with the ... (Germanwings) aircraft, are game changers for our industry," Emirates Airlines President Tim Clark said, referring to the crash of a Germanwings airliner in the French Alps in March, believed crashed deliberately by its co-pilot.

"They have to be addressed at industry level because no doubt the countries -- U.S., Europe -- I would think will make some fairly stringent, draconian demands on the way aviation works with security," he said at the Dubai Airshow.


Clark said he had ordered a security review but was not suspending any flights as a result of the disaster. Emirates does not operate regular flights to Sharm al-Sheikh.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond also said the incident could lead to changes in flight security.

"If this turns out to be a device planted by an ISIL operative or by somebody inspired by ISIL, then clearly we will have to look again at the level of security we expect to see in airports in areas where ISIL is active," Hammond told the BBC.

Islamic State, which wants to establish a caliphate in the Middle East, is also called ISIS or ISIL.

Islamic State militants fighting security forces in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula have said they brought down the aircraft as revenge for Russian air strikes against Islamist fighters in Syria. They said they would eventually tell the world how they carried out the attack.


If the group was responsible, it would have carried out one of the highest profile killings since al Qaeda flew passenger planes into New York's World Trade Center in September 2001.

Russia has returned 11,000 of its tourists from Egypt in the last 24 hours, RIA news agency said on Sunday, a fraction of the 80,000 Russians who were stranded by the Kremlin's decision on Friday to halt all flights to Egypt.

In St Petersburg, where the flight was headed on Oct. 31, the bell of St Isaac's Cathedral rang 224 times and a service was held in memory of the victims.

Russia has sent specialists to conduct a safety audit of Egypt's airports and to provide recommendations on additional measures, Arkady Dvorkovich, deputy prime minister, was quoted as saying by Russian agencies.

Dvorkovich, the head of a government group created on Friday to deal with suspended flights to Egypt, added a second group was going to Egypt on Sunday and a third would be sent later.

A British official said on Saturday it could take 10 days for all British tourists to be flown home.

(Additional reporting by Nadia Saleem in Dubai, William James in London, Denis Pinchuk in Moscow and Mikhail Antonov in St. Petersburg; Writing by Michael Georgy and Dominic Evans; Editing by Janet Lawrence)

[AlicetheKurious]

Why would an unnamed member of the investigation team say there's a 90% chance it was a bomb? To Reuters? The investigation is ongoing, and in yesterday's press conference, the spokesman for the team said only that all the signals from the plane shut down suddenly, and that they were studying an unidentified noise heard just before the black box recording ended. He said they didn't know what the noise was, but that the recording would be given to sound experts to identify using specialized equipment.

So, they have a mysterious sound, and the plane's debris, which in photographs shows no sign of burning. This was a fully-fueled plane. The plane was broken into large parts. If it had exploded in the air, the parts would be tiny. Remember 9/11, when we were told that, due to the planes' explosions, all the human bodies were torn into little pieces and burned so badly that they couldn't be identified using DNA? In the case of the Russian plane, dozens of bodies were found intact, some still strapped into their airplane seats. The luggage doesn't look like it was exploded or burned.

It's bad enough that we have to wait for the independent investigation into the plane crash, and then use our critical thinking to determine how convincing it is. But these anonymous claims in the Western media have no credibility at all. It seems that, like Cameron and Obama, they're trying to preempt the results of the investigation to further a propaganda agenda.

The chronic willingness of people to shut down their brains and swallow the pap they're given, no matter how asinine and illogical, never ceases to amaze me.