What constitutes Misogyny?

[tru3magic]

what the fuck do you care - are you trying to find a job?

I think he is trying to prove his point about male and female job opportunities being fairly equal from 10 pages back(?) That study has NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH information to be considered acceptable though.

nothing he ever says has anywhere near enough information to be acceptable.

in fact almost nothing he says is acceptable in any way.

Those are very harsh *and damaging words. From the little I know you have experienced some personal pain/invalidation, I don't see the purpose benefit or positives of imposing those same feelings on others.

[Canadian_watcher]

what the fuck do you care - are you trying to find a job?

I think he is trying to prove his point about male and female job opportunities being fairly equal from 10 pages back(?) That study has NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH information to be considered acceptable though.

nothing he ever says has anywhere near enough information to be acceptable.

in fact almost nothing he says is acceptable in any way.

Those are very harsh *and damaging words. From the little I know you have experienced some personal pain/invalidation, I don't see the purpose benefit or positives of imposing those same feelings on others.

hello again - kiss my ass

[Joe Hillshoist]

The single most damaging statistic to modern American domestic equality and human rights (from the American domain, with which I am familiar) is the fact that nearly ten times more men than women have their very freedom and lives taken away from them by our supposed system of justice... letting alone for now all the other very real ways men have it terribly worse than women. Because we live in the most incarceration-happy nation on this planet, this disparity, in turn, translates to American males living in a state of omnipresent jeopardy with which most American women simply cannot relate.

In an equal society, NOTHING excuses the fact that levels more men are executed, incarcerated or have their rights taken away. Yet some hens on this board (and cocks who apparently wish themselves to be hens) gloss over it (and other troubling facts) and go on for hundreds of pages believing we live in a singularly misogynist culture, and, to cherry the top, attack contributing males (and some females) as misogynist who demonstrate more cross-aisle consideration than they will EVER entertain demonstrating themselves.

Would you like to know how it came to be so easy to scapegoat such a disproportionate number of men in this society? By holding them to matriarchal standards. Men are expected, genetically and, ironically, culturally, to be less subservient, and on the flip-side, more confronting, and they are punished mercilessly for it, both legally and extra-legally. When women do demonstrate less subservience... as a related and potent example, men and women are pretty evenly divided on drug use representation within society, yet many, many more men are imprisoned for drug crimes.

I do not disagree that misogyny is a big problem globally, in other countries where women are oppressed outright by the state. I do not disagree that at the wholly corrupt top of the American pyramid there most likely is a misogynist component to its operation, but 21st-century American middle and lower class culture is no more misogynist than it is the opposite.

I'd argue until I'm blue in the face that it is indeed more the opposite, but unfortunately that seems to be against the board rules... more holding the brothers down.

...In no way, shape, or form am I advocating more women be locked up or executed.

Isn't the incarceration rate in the states a race issue (with other shit on top like privatisation, drug laws etc.). This thread is about misogyny.

They are both forms of bigotry but to set them up in opposition like you have done is to play both sides against the bosses.

[Plutonia]

Hold on! Hold on!

Men are angry at the predicament they are in? Well, they should be.

Women, we're angry at the predicament that we are in? Well we should be to.

Directing that anger towards each other is what rats in a cage do. Please, lets direct is productively where it belongs, towards the system that has trapped us.

Please.

What Joe said:

"They are both forms of bigotry but to set them up in opposition like you have done is to play both sides against the bosses."

[Canadian_watcher]

Hold on! Hold on!

Men are angry at the predicament they are in? Well, they should be.

Women, we're angry at the predicament that we are in? Well we should be to.

Directing that anger towards each other is what rats in a cage do. Please, lets direct is productively where it belongs, towards the system that has trapped us.

Please.

What Joe said:

"They are both forms of bigotry but to set them up in opposition like you have done is to play both sides against the bosses."

Yes, I agree... and I know I reacted with anger. How can I help it at this point? Every time we move the discussion along there is a band of brothers that all of a sudden come in out of 'nowhere' and derail it with hate, anger, and accusation.

At the beginning I tried to use reason and be calm & kind & understanding with this sort of thing, but it got me exactly nowhere - what ended up happening was that we would have pages about men's issues - and I'm not talking about the kind of issues that we should all be working to resolve - I'm talking about the assuaging of male outrage and bruised egos, etc, etc,. ONCE AGAIN this is happening.

One thing this thread has made me realize is that when we get close to understanding it is very very threatening to a certain segment of society. that segment does not want this issue to be explored let alone resolved, not even in this place, where 'resolution' would only be words on a screen between a handful of people.

I am disgusted with some people Jeff allows here. Absolutely disgusted. If this were my board I'd just fucking ban them. Honestly - I am extremely opposed to censorship but there are such things as agitators, agents provocateurs, and are we to give them equal or greater air time than legitimate, concerned members???

The one thing (besides ballsy intervention) that would rout these peckerwoods out is for the good people here to unite against their idiocy.

[charlie meadows]

The single most damaging statistic to modern American domestic equality and human rights (from the American domain, with which I am familiar) is the fact that nearly ten times more men than women have their very freedom and lives taken away from them by our supposed system of justice... letting alone for now all the other very real ways men have it terribly worse than women. Because we live in the most incarceration-happy nation on this planet, this disparity, in turn, translates to American males living in a state of omnipresent jeopardy with which most American women simply cannot relate.

lyrimal,

Downplaying women's issues by overemphasizing or even asserting the difficulties that men as a gender face in life defeats the purpose of this thread. There may or may not be a place for such considerations in another thread--or on another forum.

[Canadian_watcher]

I would like to ask this of the women here....do you feel a male cop letting you off a ticket due to being female is a misogynistic act?

I wouldn't know because it's never happened to me, or any female that I know. I have been dealt with incredibly harshly by law enforcement on more than one occasion, not the worst of which was when I called them to rescue me from being beaten by my boyfriend and they actually threatened to press charges on me because I had defended myself with the PHONE, which I had been holding while calling 911 and he grabbed me so hard that the antenna of the phone gouged a mark into his chest.

Oh, I just remembered - another time a cop tried to force himself on me in his car. He was off duty though, so maybe that doesn't count. And I just remembered something else - a current big-wig in my local police department RAPED my best friend. She never reported. it was before he was a cop in this city. There was the one time that one cop treated me very nicely - it was after one of the incidents that I've just described, actually. He told the other cops to back off of me - maybe that's the evidence you're looking for????

Tell them it's all women's fault.

If anyone thinks this (i.e it's their fault) about any opposing group, in my opinion their viewpoint is flawed.

I believe the asshole who posted above you that started this latest tirade has that 'flawed viewpoint.' If you'd be so kind as to say that directly to him instead of filtering it through ME, a woman who didn't make such and outrageous claim, it'd be appreciated.

Come on people - you can see right from wrong here. Go after the bad guys FFS.

[Plutonia]

Hold on! Hold on!

Men are angry at the predicament they are in? Well, they should be.

Women, we're angry at the predicament that we are in? Well we should be to.

Directing that anger towards each other is what rats in a cage do. Please, lets direct is productively where it belongs, towards the system that has trapped us.

Please.

What Joe said:

"They are both forms of bigotry but to set them up in opposition like you have done is to play both sides against the bosses."

Yes, I agree... and I know I reacted with anger. How can I help it at this point? Every time we move the discussion along there is a band of brothers that all of a sudden come in out of 'nowhere' and derail it with hate, anger, and accusation.

At the beginning I tried to use reason and be calm & kind & understanding with this sort of thing, but it got me exactly nowhere - what ended up happening was that we would have pages about men's issues - and I'm not talking about the kind of issues that we should all be working to resolve - I'm talking about the assuaging of male outrage and bruised egos, etc, etc,. ONCE AGAIN this is happening.

No, no, it's not though because we are in a different place in our discussion which we've worked hard to get at. So it's not "once again", it's a new voice that has joined the discussion at a new place, a potential ally. That outrage that he's expressing against men's predicament, well it's valid.

One thing this thread has made me realize is that when we get close to understanding it is very very threatening to a certain segment of society. that segment does not want this issue to be explored let alone resolved, not even in this place, where 'resolution' would only be words on a screen between a handful of people.

I am disgusted with some people Jeff allows here. Absolutely disgusted. If this were my board I'd just fucking ban them. Honestly - I am extremely opposed to censorship but there are such things as agitators, agents provocateurs, and are we to give them equal or greater air time than legitimate, concerned members???

Well, if they are able to provoke us, that's on us isn't it?

The one thing (besides ballsy intervention) that would rout these peckerwoods out is for the good people here to unite against their idiocy.

The "They" that you want to not have to deal with, they are US. Remember how I angered you? Now you see, oh yeah, she's one of US. That's a potential for everyone, but especially for people who feel strongly enough to post in this thread about it, even if, or particularly if, we don't like what they are saying.

We need all the allies we can get. Even the angry ones. Especially the angry ones.

[Canadian_watcher]

The single most damaging statistic to modern American domestic equality and human rights (from the American domain, with which I am familiar) is the fact that nearly ten times more men than women have their very freedom and lives taken away from them by our supposed system of justice... letting alone for now all the other very real ways men have it terribly worse than women. Because we live in the most incarceration-happy nation on this planet, this disparity, in turn, translates to American males living in a state of omnipresent jeopardy with which most American women simply cannot relate.

lyrimal,

Downplaying women's issues by overemphasizing or even asserting the difficulties that men as a gender face in life defeats the purpose of this thread. There may or may not be a place for such considerations in another thread--or on another forum.

unignored.
thank you.

[lyrimal]

Why are folks putting words in my mouth?

I didn't blame our misandrist(sic) culture on women. I wasn't attacking or blaming women.

...And I ain't pittin' the blacks against the womens. African Americans have their own valid grievances against our generalized American system of 'justice', as do men in general... as do women.

...And I'm not downplaying womens' issues. I'm countering the OP artist herself, and others, that maintain we live in a predominantly misogynist culture, as opposed to 'what constitutes misogyny'. The thread really ought to be retitled based on the content, including by the author herself.

[charlie meadows]

The single most damaging statistic to modern American domestic equality and human rights (from the American domain, with which I am familiar) is the fact that nearly ten times more men than women have their very freedom and lives taken away from them by our supposed system of justice... letting alone for now all the other very real ways men have it terribly worse than women. Because we live in the most incarceration-happy nation on this planet, this disparity, in turn, translates to American males living in a state of omnipresent jeopardy with which most American women simply cannot relate.

lyrimal,

Downplaying women's issues by overemphasizing or even asserting the difficulties that men as a gender face in life defeats the purpose of this thread. There may or may not be a place for such considerations in another thread--or on another forum.

unignored.
thank you.

It seems we all (mainly) have come to a tacit agreement that a thread about misogyny should not be about misandry. It's only right.

[Canadian_watcher]

We need all the allies we can get. Even the angry ones. Especially the angry ones.

I see your point, but I'm tired. I cannot abide this blame blame blame. To simply discuss misogyny in our culture is tiring ... it makes women remember and re-experience a whole host of insults and injustices... but then to be BLAMED essentially for the very treatment we get at the hands of our oppressors..

it gets too much.

If I honestly thought that these angry voices were NEW (because I don't think they are. Look at the number of posts - did they really just find RI and immediately get outraged like this????) I think it's the same stubborn losers we've already had this battle with. They are hopeless - they are embittered - they are not 'convertible.' They don't want to see and they will never see, they like being victims of the 'matriarchy.' (is that not a total laugh riot?)

[Canadian_watcher]

Why are folks putting words in my mouth?

I didn't blame our misandrist(sic) culture on women. I wasn't attacking or blaming women.

...And I ain't pittin' the blacks against the womens. African Americans have their own valid grievances against our generalized American system of 'justice', as do men in general... as do women.

...And I'm not downplaying womens' issues. I'm countering the OP artist herself, and others, that maintain we live in a predominantly misogynist culture, as opposed to 'what constitutes misogyny'. The thread really ought to be retitled based on the content, including by the author herself.

super duper fuck off.

[charlie meadows]

We need all the allies we can get. Even the angry ones. Especially the angry ones.

I see your point, but I'm tired. I cannot abide this blame blame blame. To simply discuss misogyny in our culture is tiring ... it makes women remember and re-experience a whole host of insults and injustices... but then to be BLAMED essentially for the very treatment we get at the hands of our oppressors..

it gets too much.

If I honestly thought that these angry voices were NEW (because I don't think they are. Look at the number of posts - did they really just find RI and immediately get outraged like this????) I think it's the same stubborn losers we've already had this battle with. They are hopeless - they are embittered - they are not 'convertible.' They don't want to see and they will never see, they like being victims of the 'matriarchy.' (is that not a total laugh riot?)

Jeff and Barracuda must have access to all the IP addresses, no? phpbb, right? If this were my forum, which of course it is not, I would make it a condition that all new members admit (at least privately to the mods) to previous monikers as a condition of their membership. If nothing else it would ease your mind.

[Canadian_watcher]

If something around here changes, feel free to PM me, otherwise, I'm out.