Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:20 am

seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:38 pm wrote:Merry Christmas

FBI surprises again, shares files on Bill Clinton pardon of Marc Rich
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /93136458/

The FBI is now picking the President ...everyone loves the FBI now ...don't they?



no I guess it just was a plain ol' Comey grudge ...way to use the FBI ...you slime ball

Comey, for instance, as a young prosecutor in New York, helped lead the case against Rich. Later, as U.S. attorney, he led the office that handled the investigation into the Clinton pardon from early 2002 to the end of 2003.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html


ELECTION 2016
Is Reckless Comey Seeking Revenge on Critics via FBI Twitter Account?
The director of the FBI is acting so as to harm the very process of democracy.
By Adele M. Stan / AlterNet November 1, 2016


Something very dangerous is happening in the Federal Bureau of Investigation: The nation’s foremost law enforcement agency appears to be at war both within itself and with the Department of Justice, of which it is a part. The disagreements all involve our national politics, and the FBI’s appropriate role in them, leaving the American people with yet another major institution on their do-not-trust list. The government is coming ever more undone.

The chaos at the FBI and in the Justice Department burst into public view on Friday, October 28, 11 days before the 2016 presidential election is scheduled to take place. That’s when FBI Director James Comey issued—against the wishes of DoJ officials and counter to department guidelines—his now-infamous letter informing the chairmen of eight congressional committees that agents investigating a possible sex crime by former congressman Anthony Weiner had found emails on his computer—to and from his estranged wife Huma Abedin—that may be pertinent to the bureau’s investigation of Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state. (Then, as she is now, Abedin was a Clinton aide.) He hadn’t seen the emails, he said, and didn’t know what was in them, leaving a lot of people scratching their heads and wondering if he just wasn’t trying to sway the election.

In the meantime, as noted in a letter to Comey from Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, the FBI was investigating links between the Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and the government of Russia. There again, it may well be that the FBI hasn’t uncovered any actionable information, but its director has not seen fit to write a letter to Congress in order to inform committee chairs that it has discovered a server used by the Trump Organization, possibly to conduct traffic between itself and the Alfa Bank of Russia.

According to news reports, the Bureau has also investigated the Trump Organization’s use of the server, but doesn’t know what’s been transmitted on it. Kind of like Anthony Weiner’s laptop, except that it involves a foreign government that is also believed by leaders of U.S. intelligence agencies to be behind the hacks of the emails of the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the chairman of the Hillary Clinton for President campaign. (The Intercept published an article Tuesday claiming to debunk the theory of the “Trump server” communicating with Alfa Bank.)

So it seems that, from a law enforcement perspective, the FBI behaved properly in not sending word to Congress about the server, or any as-of-yet unproven links between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. But that same standard was not applied in the case of the Weiner laptop.

It’s been reported that Comey was feeling pressure not just from Republicans who are furious with him for not indicting Clinton for her use of her private server for the conduct of government business, but also from his own agents. And it would seem that Comey feels stung by the criticism he’s taking from Democrats regarding the letter he sent to Congress on Friday.

Now comes word, via Devlin Barrett of the Wall Street Journal, that agents who were investigating allegations of influence-peddling involving the Clinton Foundation were incensed when higher-ups at the Justice Department urged them to tread carefully so as to adhere to department guidelines against taking action that could influence an election, and that members of the Department’s anti-corruption unit didn’t think the FBI had a strong case.

It seems as if whoever controls a Bureau Twitter account called @FBIRecordsVault has struck back against all those Clinton surrogates who are calling foul on Comey. The account, whose purpose is the posting of documents released through Freedom of Information Act requests, appears to have been dead for a year—no postings since October 7, 2015. Suddenly, on Tuesday, it sprang to life with a handful of posts, one a nothing-burger on Fred Trump, father of the Republican standard-bearer, and another on an old investigation of the Clinton Foundation and President Bill Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich, then a fugitive hedge-fund manager whose wife had donated to the DNC and the Clinton Foundation. It was Comey who brought the criminal case against Rich, Bloomberg News reports, and is said to have been “stunned” by Clinton’s pardon of the financier. The documents linked to in the tweet don’t say much of anything, but the tweet itself does reinforce in the public mind the controversies advanced by Clinton’s enemies about the foundation. It's not the fact of the tweet that's at issue—the material was released via FOIA—but the timing of it from an account that was only reactivated on Sunday.

Over the years, leaders and members of the Federal Bureau of Investigation have given the American people many reasons from which to draw the conclusion that, in matters involving the American political landscape and the people who inhabit it, the Bureau cannot be trusted.

Among them, of course, are the FBI’s attempts to undermine Rev. Martin Luther King at the height of the civil rights movement, and the bureau’s infiltration of civil rights and anti-war groups in the 1960s through its COINTELPRO operation, and a similar operation that targeted the American Indian Movement.

In subsequent years, the Bureau was seen as more or less chastened and rehabilitated, thanks to the 1976 Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities of the United States Senate, popularly known as the Church Committee (named for its chairman, Sen. Frank Church of Idaho).

Now we have entered a new era, one in which the director of the FBI is acting so recklessly as to harm the very process of democracy—either that, or he's lost control of the agents he's supposed to be leading. Either way, he's made a choice to let chaos reign in the closing days of a presidential campaign.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/r ... er-account
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Jerky » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:30 am

Considering the storied history of the Republican use of the Presidential Pardon, the idea that the Marc Rich pardon could STILL be stuck in the right-wing's craw at this late date is both hilarious and indicative of the fact that the Clintons are, contrary to popular belief, the cleanest, least compromised political players in America today. They are certainly the most investigated, by the most crazed and fanatical set of adversaries any American politicians have had to face since the Civil War (a refresher viewing of The Power of Nightmares may be in order for some at this board). Taking into consideration the fact that they're still alive and free, no other conclusion seems tenable.

Face it, haters... in terms of career politicians, the Clintons are CLEAN... the very best that America's got!

Until, of course, they get arrested by Rory's friends on the NYPD, or gunned down by our pal (CENSORED)'s pals at Storm-whatever.

J
User avatar
Jerky
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:34 am

Until, of course, they get arrested by Rory's friends on the NYPD, or gunned down by our pal (CENSORED)'s pals at Storm-whateve


:P


makes things so much clearer now



Moody's predicts significant win for Clinton despite Trump's gains in the polls
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/moodys-predict ... ls-1589384



Anonymous Warns Russian Hackers Targeting US Election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLGOBB-hElE
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:57 am

Hillary’s Male Tormentors
Frank Bruni
Frank Bruni NOV. 2, 2016

Weiner or no Weiner, Hillary Clinton is likely to be our next president.

But she can’t seem to escape insatiable men.

She married one — for better, for “bimbo eruptions,” for two terms in the White House, for impeachment.

She’s in the climactic week of a grotesque battle with another. If she prevails, his boasts of sexual aggression will partly be why.

And if she fails? Again there’s a priapic protagonist. The F.B.I. wouldn’t be examining Anthony Weiner’s laptop if he hadn’t invited so many strangers to examine his lap, and her fate is enmeshed once more with the wanton misdeeds of the weaker sex.

Over so many of her travails hangs a cloud of testosterone.

No woman before her earned a major party’s presidential nomination, drawing this close to the Oval Office. Should she reach that milestone and make that history, she’d probably also work with a Congress in which there are more female lawmakers than ever before.

But her journey doesn’t only reflect the advances of women. It has also been shaped by the appetites and anxieties of men. (Maybe the two dynamics go hand in hand.) And it has exposed gross male behavior while prompting fresh examples of it. Prominent men on the edge of obsolescence have never acted so wounded, so angry, so desperate. Yes, Newt Gingrich, I’m looking at you, though you’ll have to wait your turn while I assess your master.

Donald Trump’s candidacy is an unalloyed expression of male id: Yield to me, worship me, never question the expanse of my reach, do not impugn the majesty of my endowment. It’s less a political mission than a hormonal one, and it harks back to an era when women were arm candy and a man reveled in his sweet tooth.

His archaic masculinity is her opportunity: a stroke of good fortune in a presidential bid with plenty of bad luck, too. When he seethed that she was a “nasty woman,” he might as well have been offering to carry her luggage into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

It’s hardly the first time that a man’s cravings colored her fate. How much of her Achilles’-heel defensiveness is a byproduct of her marriage to Bill? When he was governor of Arkansas and when he ran for president in 1992, there were constant rumors of his philandering and a ceaseless effort to keep them from spreading. She learned early on to see the media as invasive, her opponents as merciless, and privacy as something to be guarded at all costs. That doesn’t excuse her use of a private email server as secretary of state, but it does help to explain it.

Her husband converged with Gingrich in Washington in the 1990s, and when Gingrich’s Republican troops conquered Congress in 1994, it was widely characterized as the revenge of angry white men, whose provocations included her assertiveness. The president and Gingrich were both portraits of epic neediness. They were as impulsive and messy as little boys. They were destined to torment each other, and did.

The humiliations that she suffered — and the public sympathy that she reaped — were inextricable from the dueling displays of male vanity around her.

Fast forward two decades. While there are still angry white men and they favor Trump, it appears that there aren’t enough to counter her advantage with women, who are poised to get the president of their wishes. Not everyone is taking this well.

Just days after Trump called Clinton a “nasty woman,” Gingrich lashed out at Megyn Kelly of Fox News for being unduly “fascinated with sex,” a rich remark from a thrice-married man with a record of affairs. He wasn’t just a pol jousting with a journalist. He was a portly, toppled despot aghast at how stubbornly an intelligent woman refused to defer to him. He was an aged Everyman, reeling at changed roles and altered rules.

Around the country there are Senate and House races with a similar flavor: older man, younger woman, stew of resentments. In Illinois, Senator Mark Kirk, 57, made fun of the Thai heritage of his challenger, Representative Tammy Duckworth, 48, and when I watched the exchange, I wondered if the tension between them was a function of gender as well as race.

In Florida, Representative John Mica, 73, dismissed Stephanie Murphy, the 37-year-old college professor who is running against him, as a “nice lady” who just isn’t ready for prime time.

Maybe he has always been that big a boor and having a female opponent just made it obvious. But Clinton gets under Trump’s skin in a way that male rivals didn’t. In that sense, her gender is not a weakness but a weapon.

It’s about time
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/opini ... .html?_r=0


Hillary Clinton's March to Victory
The presidential campaign has unfolded in ways she never could have imagined. It is ending in a morass of ugliness. What could possibly come next?

MOLLY BALL NOV 1, 2016 POLITICS

MANCHESTER, N.H.—She was going to win, and that would be all that mattered.

Hillary Clinton hugged Elizabeth Warren and picked up the microphone and laughed, that steely chortle that had set so many men’s nerves on edge for so many years. She looked out at the crowd, a couple of thousand people, mostly white people, wearing plaid.

“Wow, I don’t know about you, but I could listen to Elizabeth go on all day!” she said, as if someone had accused her of not being able to do so. “It is so great being here, back in New Hampshire!”

It was finally happening: The election was just a few endless days away, people were already voting, she was up in all the polls. At long last, she was drawing respectable crowds, albeit often with the help of figures like Warren, and the people seemed actually excited to see her, even if it was an excitement partly born of panic.

It was a bright, wind-whipped New England fall day, all sun-blazed neon-orange leaves and church spires sticking out of copses. Behind the stage, big blue cutout letters spelled out “STRONGER TOGETHER.”

Looking out on the audience, she could see them all—the college kids who had voted overwhelmingly for her opponent in the primary; the Massachusetts liberals mostly there to see Warren. There on the stage was Warren, who had waited until the primaries were effectively over to endorse her, and Maggie Hassan, the governor and senatorial candidate who just a couple months ago, asked in a television interview whether she thought Clinton was trustworthy, bobbed and weaved and wouldn’t answer the question. Perhaps to make the event appear filled to capacity, the campaign had confined it to just half the college’s lawn.

First, a joke. “You know, I stood next to Donald Trump in three debates for four and a half hours, proving once again I have the stamina to be president,” she said. Then, the pivot to seriousness. “I take it really seriously,” she said. “I think the problems that keep you up at night, that stand in the way of your getting ahead and staying ahead, of providing the best opportunity of a good middle class job with a rising income for you and your kids—those are the problems that someone running for president should actually listen to, pay attention to, and come up with solutions for.”

What had she been through over the past year and a half—what had America been through? She had prepared for a normal campaign, prepared for something like 2012, a boring slog against a sane and decent regular Republican whom she would strain to argue was Wrong On The Issues. Instead she got a hair-on-fire carnival ride, a Russian spy thriller, a national nervous breakdown of an election.

Every day she got up and recited the same jokes and exhortations, and every day the hackers released more of her advisers’ private communications onto the internet, and every day her improbable opponent, a sort of primal scream in human form, waved his arms and called her a criminal.

She had piles and piles of proposals—to rightsize the prisons and roll back deportations and pay for child care and on and on—and then it turned out the election wasn’t about any of that. It was about trying to be as inconspicuous as possible and waiting for the fire to burn out. It was about being slightly less of a monster. Even then, about half of America looked at her and was not convinced.

“I do have a lot of plans, I do!” she said in New Hampshire. “I get criticized for having so many plans! ... I do have this old-fashioned idea that if I’m here asking for your vote, to be your president, I should tell you what I’m going to do! And maybe, as I said yesterday in North Carolina, maybe it is a bit of a women’s thing, because we make lists.” She had, in fact, said more or less the same thing the previous day, in North Carolina. And she’d said it the day before that, in Pennsylvania.

In the final days there would be a new heart attack, the latest self-inflicted wound from the neverending, picayune email scandal, and Clinton and everyone around her would freak out while working very hard to seem not to be freaking out at all, because that is how they do things. (“Careful but angry” was one Clinton adviser’s three-word description to me of the internal mood.)

And she would keep putting one foot in front of the other, trusting the machine she built to do its work. Like she always had, she would accomplish with perspiration what she could not with inspiration. She was, in all probability, going to be the next president, and then what? How on earth was she the answer to the question posed by this insane campaign? How on earth would she reckon with the disturbed country she had struggled so hard to win over?

“I want you to vote for yourselves, and for your families, and for your hope for our future together,” she said, pacing the stage with wide eyes and a severe expression, and launching into another six-point list of all the issues she planned to tackle. “I believe with all of my heart that we will, after this election, get together to help heal the divides that have sprung up and are so painful among us.”

It didn’t matter if she believed it, or if anyone did. What mattered was that she was going to win—wasn’t she?—and the rest could wait.

Everything that came out seemed to confirm the worst suspicions.

Her paranoid opponents said she was a part of the elite globalist cabal secretly plotting to impose one-world government by surrendering national sovereignty. And there she was, according to emails between her advisers hacked and released by Wikileaks, telling a Brazilian bank in 2013, “My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders.” She was paid $225,000 for the speech. (The campaign has not confirmed that the emails from the account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta are authentic, but many of them have been corroborated by third parties.)

Her critics had long charged that she said whatever people wanted to hear, and there she was saying behind closed doors that when it comes to policymaking, “You need both a public and a private position.” They said she was a member of the out-of-touch elite, and there she was saying she was “kind of far removed” from regular people’s struggles. They said she was too cozy with wealthy donors, and there she was telling the CEO of Goldman Sachs that she feels sorry for rich people, because “there is such a bias against people who have led successful and/or complicated lives.”

In a Democratic debate in April, Bernie Sanders charged that while he was introducing legislation to break up the banks that caused the financial crisis, “Secretary Clinton was busy giving speeches to Goldman Sachs for $225,000 a speech.” And sure enough, the hacked emails showed her reassuring her hosts at Goldman that people’s anger at the banks was the result of “misunderstanding” and “politicizing” of the banking crisis. Could you imagine Sanders doing this? You could not.

At the rally with Warren in New Hampshire, Clinton praised the Massachusetts senator: “She’s going to make sure that Wall Street never wrecks Main Street again,” Clinton said. She would proceed from the rally to an evening fundraiser in Manhattan, where the 300 guests had each paid a minimum of $10,000 to hear Clinton explain, according to an aide, “that America succeeds when we work together to solve our problems and when everyone shares in the rewards—not just those at the top.”

The critics said she was willing to stand for whatever people seemed to want at the time. And there it was in the emails, her aides arguing about what her position ought to be on everything from banking regulations to carbon taxes. Before different audiences, she came out against marijuana legalization at one point, in favor of decriminalization at another. Her economic advisers wanted her to be for reforming a tax on expensive health-care plans that unions hate; her political team wanted her to be for scrapping it. The political team won.

They said she and her husband were enriching themselves off their eponymous foundation, doing well by doing good—doing very well—and there was literally a memo outlining the cross-pollination between the Clinton Foundation and what aide Doug Band termed “Bill Clinton Inc.” In the 13-page document, Band described the hefty paydays and “in-kind services for the President and his family” that resulted from the former president’s good works, even as his wife was jetting around the world as secretary of state.

The people around Clinton seemed to consider it their job to suck up to her as shamelessly and consistently as possible, according to another set of emails released last year by the State Department. One, the longtime Clintonworld fixer Lanny Davis, liked to send her emails enumerating all of her good qualities. Behind her back, they schemed and sniped at one another: “He’s kind of a nut bar,” her adviser Neera Tanden confided to Podesta about David Brock, the operative who runs a pro-Clinton super PAC.

They jockeyed for her favor, and nobody ever seemed to leave. When Podesta gently reprimanded another Clinton hanger-on, Philippe Reines, for browbeating a Washington Free Beacon reporter, Reines responded with an operatic display of self-pity, ending in the grandiose announcement that he would be removing himself from Clinton’s orbit for the good of everyone involved. By the end of the campaign, he would be back in the inner circle, helping with debate prep and joining Clinton on her plane.

And then there was that pervert Anthony Weiner, about whom Trump had said back in August, “I only worry for the country in that Hillary Clinton was careless and negligent in allowing Weiner to have such close proximity to highly classified information. Who knows what he learned and who he told? ... It is possible that our country and its security have been greatly compromised by this.” Amazingly, when the federal investigation into Weiner’s lustful communications with a teenage girl begat Friday’s news that the FBI was investigating a potential connection to Clinton, Trump managed not to tweet, “Appreciate the congrats.”

The best defense was that this was all totally normal, the complication and intrigue that teem behind every large operation. Wasn’t this just the way things always worked?

The people who believe in Clinton are naive enough to think she might actually make things better.

“I hope she will be able to negotiate with Republicans to get things done,” Jed Shugerman, a law professor from Massachusetts, told me at the New Hampshire rally. “Even though Republicans have railed against her, I think she has the ability to work across party lines. And if it’s a Democratic landslide, the GOP might be more willing to compromise.”

I asked them why they thought she could break the gridlock in Washington, unlike President Obama. “I think her approach is going to be more no-nonsense,” Paul Leone, a 56-year old software developer, told me in Raleigh, N.C. “She knows the difficulties he’s had with bipartisanship. Maybe she’ll be more forceful and get better results.”

They hoped that, with this campaign, things had finally reached a breaking point. “Republicans will realize we have to come together as a country,” said Letia Stanley, a 28-year-old insurance saleswoman I met at a Clinton rally in Philadelphia. “Hillary has always been someone to work across the aisle, even with people who didn’t like her personally.”

In places like Philadelphia, the campaign is airing an ad featuring a Republican woman who says she’s voting for Clinton because she has a son with autism. “I don’t always agree with her, but she’s reasonable, and she’s smart, and she can work with people to solve problems,” the woman says.

Even Obama seems to believe that Clinton can succeed where he failed. “If, in fact, it’s a President Clinton and Vice President Kaine, they will come into office in a different position than I did,” he told The New Yorker recently. “They won’t be confronting a crisis of historic proportions. They will have, hopefully, the luxury of choosing what are the first couple issues to work on, and, so, rather than trying to pass an eight-hundred-billion-dollar stimulus, or save the auto industry, or revamp the financial system—all of which were fraught with concern for Republicans steeped in small-government or no-government philosophies—they may be able to work on something like infrastructure, that is more likely to lend itself to pragmatic solutions.”

Obama always hoped the Republicans’ “fever” would break and they would finally see the political upside in giving him what he wanted. Yet the fever seems as hot as ever: Jason Chaffetz, the representative who heads the House Oversight Committee, has promised wall-to-wall investigations, and Ted Cruz, the Tea Party senator, wonders if the Supreme Court really needs a ninth justice.

An argument has broken out about whether, if she wins by a large margin, Clinton will have a “mandate,” with liberals saying her election will have been a clear endorsement of her vision and conservatives—a group that couldn’t even win their own party’s primary—saying it will have proved only that she was lucky enough to run against Trump.

The full-time attackers of the right and the left are circling as they always have, getting ready to demand their due and tear her apart. The Clinton voters regard all this negativity with puzzlement. “It feels like there’s a lot of anger out there,” Patrick Janovsky, who lives in Philadelphia and works in sales, told me. He wore an orange vest and a Chicago Cubs hat, and he had brought his 8-year-old son to see America’s first female president. “I’m not angry! I don’t know why people aren’t listening to one another.”

The rally in Philadelphia took place on a dark freezing night near the campus of the University of Pennsylvania. Clinton was joined by her running mate, Tim Kaine, who made an appeal to unity and consensus, as if those things still existed in America—as if they might still be possible. “There’s a momentum that’s happening in this race,” he said. “Americans are choosing the kind of country they want for their children and grandchildren!”

Then Clinton took the stage, and picked up the microphone, and laughed her steely laugh. “Hello, Penn!” she cried. “Hello, Pennsylvania! I am so excited to be here tonight!”

She was winning, doing whatever it took, and for now that was all that mattered. And then she would bow her head, grimly, to the next impossible task.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ry/505946/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:09 am

xThe Hard Art of Pig Wrestling: The Challenge of Identifying and Subduing Jerks
Fighting a pig, you will get dirty and risk becoming a pig yourself.
By Jeremy Sherman / AlterNet November 1, 2016


George Bernard Shaw famously said, “Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll just get dirty and the pig likes it.”

Your life experience (and perhaps this election) has taught you that you can never say never.

With pigs, flight is usually better than fight, but sometimes flight isn’t an option. You know what it’s like to be cornered by a pig, a family member, a boss on a job you can’t afford to leave, a bully, a pig you have to confront or he’ll ruin things for the people you are pledged to protect, a pig you just can’t avoid and can’t ignore.

Fighting a pig, you will get dirty and risk becoming a pig yourself. Some people say that even engaging with a pig makes you a pig, as though there’s never any call to fight pigs and that if you try to fight them, you’ll inevitably slide down a slippery slope into the trough. If you weren’t a pig when you entered the pen, you’ll soon become one.

Pig wrestling puts you on a slippery slope, but since sometimes you can’t avoid it, the trick is figuring out how to rappel down it carefully.

The first challenge is identifying a pig, which is not as easy as it sounds.

How can you tell who is and isn’t a pig? Is a pig someone who steadfastly resists common sense? Whose common sense? Yours? How do you know you have common sense? Is common sense the majority view about things, the common consensus?

Sometimes the consensus is wrong. If you were stubbornly anti-Hitler during his rise, the majority, including Hitler himself, would think you were a pig for defying common sense. Indeed, pigs the world over think you’re a pig just because you stubbornly disagree with what they think is common sense.

A pig isn’t just someone who disagrees with you, and it’s not just someone who is closed-minded. You’re closed-minded about a lot of things. No matter how hard someone tried to persuade you that the earth is flat, you wouldn’t buy it, and that doesn’t make you a pig.

In his book Assholes: A Theory, philosopher Aaron James defines an asshole as someone who thinks he’s entitled to more than everyone else. This definition begins to get at what makes someone a pig, but it doesn’t quite work because it relies on knowing what a person thinks, which we can’t. We can only guess what people think. We can ask them, but they may not know what they think, and they might not tell you. Pigs especially. “Do you think you’re entitled to more than everyone else?” “Of course not!” the pig will say.

You can’t know for sure someone is a pig. You can only make educated guesses. If you hold out for absolute certainty before diagnosing someone as a pig, a pig will play you: “Me, a pig? You don’t know that for certain! Shame on you for jumping to conclusions!”

Don’t jump to conclusions, but don’t hold out for conclusions to land in your lap either. Walk carefully to conclusions, not based on your guess at people’s intentions, but based on their actions.

As a first-pass definition, a pig is someone who routinely, automatically and relentlessly deflects all challenges by employing a small collection of cheap-shot tricks to turn the table, making other people the problem instead of himself.

To identify a pig carefully, you have to have witnessed one challenged from many angles, always deflecting instantaneously with a variety of techniques that boil down to “I know you are but what am I?” or “I’m like rubber, you’re like glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.”

Here’s a partial list of the cheap tricks, cheap because they don’t cost much to use if one has an accommodating conscience. The list is surprisingly short and the tricks are amazingly versatile, which explains why someone can become a know-it-all pig without knowing much at all. All one needs to know is a handful of cheap tricks.

It’s important to be able to identify pigs carefully. Do it sloppily and you become a pig yourself, someone who cries foul against anyone who stubbornly disagrees with you.

But again, you can’t just give everyone unlimited benefit of the doubt out of kindness or moral obligation. There really are pigs in your life and if you fail to identify them, they’ll end up leading you by the nose, dragging your attention into topics they put on the table to just distract you, topics that are, for them, only of interest as self-serving rationalizations for their ultimate aim, making you wrong and them right about everything.

When you bet that someone is a pig, you know better than to fall for their traps and cheap shots. But where exactly should you focus instead?

Not on winning by their standards, because you can’t beat a pig. You’ll never be able to convince them that they’re wrong about anything, since, by definition, they’ll do or say anything to claim victory. You can’t beat them, but you might be able to subdue them through peer pressure.

We rarely pig wrestle in isolation from other people. If you have people observing your pig wrestling, play to them, not to the pig. Pigs want attention. Their behavior reveals that they live for proving people wrong in front of other people. Don’t give them attention or victories. Don’t answer their questions, which are all traps. Talk past them to those witnessing the debate. Your effort should be to persuade the audience that you’re dealing with a pig.

Debating a pig is a multi-layered affair. At the ground level there are the issues that pigs pretend are the real point just to set you up for failure and themselves for victory. Don’t engage on the issues since the pig doesn’t really care about them.

Up a level is the pig’s real focus, not the issues but the platform from which he employs the cheap shots for proving you wrong and them right about everything. Don’t engage the cheap shots either. That’s taking the bait. If the pig accuses you of something, don’t defend against it.

Focusing on either of these levels is a losing game. Instead, uplevel to the third tier, addressing the audience with your description of the pig’s MO: “See what he did there? See him just now, employing that cheap trick to deflect all criticism.”

The goal is to trap the pig in what I call a “tar baby.” You might remember from the Uncle Remus stories that a tar baby is a doll made of sticky tar. The more Brer Rabbit punches it, the more stuck to it he gets. Conversational tar babies may beat a pig at its own game. Here are some tar babies to try, talking past the pig to your audience:

“He’s being defensive.”
“He doesn’t care about the truth. He’s only out to win.”
“He talks as though he’s the judge. He acts like he’s the umpire neutrally deciding he has won the game he’s competing in.”
“It’s not all about him. He just thinks it is.”
“He gives the benefit of the doubt, but only to himself.”
These are all tar babies because by denying them, the accusations stick.

“I’m not being defensive!” is defensive.
“You’re wrong! I’m not only out to win,” is an effort to win.
“You’re wrong! I'm not playing judge,” is playing judge.
“It’s not all about me!” is all about him.
“I don’t give myself the benefit of the doubt!” is giving himself the benefit of the doubt.
And you can point this out to your audience:

“I’m not being defensive!”

“There he goes again, being defensive.”

Tar babies are not surefire ways to subdue pigs. There are ways to slip out of them. Still, they’re worth a try, and not just a passing try. See, a pig is relentless. He’ll try the same cheap shots over and over to win by wearing you out and getting you to eventually take the bait. You have to match a pig’s relentlessness with relentlessness of your own. The pig will try to lead you by the nose into debates he can win. You have to ignore his leads, instead leading him into tar baby debates he’s unlikely win.

He’ll claim he’s won, of course. That’s just what pigs do. So convincing him he has lost is a lost cause. It’s very unlikely you’ll ever get a pig to back down. But with patience and a plan, you can often eat far enough into his credibility that his claims of victory persuade only a minority. You can render many a pig impotent with patience and a plan.

And the plan is essential. Enter debate with a pig without a plan and he’ll lead you by the nose to his trough. He’ll exasperate you and then turn your exasperation into further evidence that he’s right and you’re wrong. About everything. (“You’re getting emotional so you must be wrong.”)

Michelle Obama said, “When they go low, we go high.” That’s sound advice for subduing pigs, but not the way it’s usually taken. Most people think it means when pigs debase themselves with low morals, you should take the moral high ground. The problem with that strategy is that pigs have cheap tricks for always taking the moral high ground. No matter how high a high horse you mount in response to their low morals, they’ll mount a higher horse and claim you’re immoral.

No, the going high that counts is getting above the fray the pig sets up for you. Uplevel above the debate topics, because the pig doesn’t care about them. Uplevel above his self-serving refereeing, the fake-neutral judging he does whereby the pig claims that he’s winning every point. Go high, playing to the audience, serving as their guide to the pig’s strategy. That’s your best plan for staying calm while subduing the pig.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/h ... uing-jerks
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby 0_0 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:31 am

Waking up in Hillary Clinton’s America
Wall Street in the saddle

by Nomi Prins, 31 October 2016


As this endless election limps toward its last days, while spiraling into a bizarre duel over vote-rigging accusations, a deep sigh is undoubtedly in order. The entire process has been an emotionally draining, frustration-inducing, rage-inflaming spectacle of repellent form over shallow substance. For many, the third debate evoked fatigue. More worrying, there was again no discussion of how to prevent another financial crisis, an ominous possibility in the next presidency, whether Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton enters the Oval Office — given that nothing fundamental has been altered when it comes to Wall Street’s practices and predation.

At the heart of American political consciousness right now lies a soul-crushing reality for millions of distraught Americans: the choices for president couldn’t be feebler or more disappointing. On the one hand, we have a petulant, vocabulary-challenged man-boar of a billionaire, who hasn’t paid his taxes, has regularly left those supporting him holding the bag, and seems like a ludicrous composite of every bad trait in every bad date any woman has ever had. On the other hand, we’re offered a walking photo-op for and well-paid speechmaker to Wall-Street CEOs, a one-woman money-raising machine from the 1% of the 1%, who, despite a folksiness that couldn’t look more rehearsed, has methodically outplayed her opponent.

With less than two weeks to go before E-day — despite the Trumptilian upheaval of the last year — the high probability of a Clinton win means the establishment remains intact. When we awaken on November 9th, it will undoubtedly be dawn in Hillary Clinton’s America and that potentially means four years of an economic dystopia that will (as would Donald Trump’s version of the same) leave many Americans rightfully anxious about their economic futures.

None of the three presidential debates suggested that either candidate would have the ability (or desire) to confront Wall Street from the Oval Office. In the second and third debates, in case you missed them, Hillary didn’t even mention the Glass-Steagall Act, too big to fail, or Wall Street. While in the first debate, the subject of Wall Street only came up after she disparaged the tax policies of “Trumped-up, trickle down economics” (or, as I like to call it, the Trumpledown economics of giving tax and financial benefits to the rich and to corporations).

In this election, Hillary has crafted her talking points regarding the causes of the last financial crisis as weapons against Trump, but they hardly begin to tell the real story of what happened to the American economy. The meltdown of 2007-2008 was not mainly due to “tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy” or a “failure to invest in the middle class,” two subjects she has repeatedly highlighted to slam the Republicans and their candidate. It was a byproduct of the destruction of the regulations that opened the way for a too-big-to-fail framework to thrive. Under the presidency of Bill Clinton, Glass-Steagall, the Depression-era act that once separated people’s bank deposits and loans from any kind of risky bets or other similar actions in which banks might engage, was repealed under the Financial Modernization Act of 1999. In addition, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act was passed, which allowed Wall Street to concoct devastating unregulated side bets on what became the subprime crisis.

Given that the people involved with those choices are still around and some are still advising (or in the case of one former president living with) Hillary Clinton, it’s reasonable to imagine that, in January 2017, she’ll launch the third term of Bill Clinton when it comes to financial policy, banks, and the economy. Only now, the stakes are even higher, the banks larger, and their impunity still remarkably unchallenged.

Consider President Obama’s current treasury secretary, Jack Lew. It was Hillary who hit the Clinton Rolodex to bring him back to Washington. Lew first entered Bill Clinton’s White House in 1993 as special assistant to the president. Between his stints working for Clinton and Obama, he made his way into the private sector and eventually to Wall Street — as so many of his predecessors had done and successors would do. He scored a leadership role with Citigroup during the time that Bill Clinton’s former Treasury Secretary (and former Goldman Sachs co-Chairman) Robert Rubin was on its board of directors. In 2009, Hillary selected him to be her deputy secretary of state.

Lew is hardly the only example of the busy revolving door to power that led from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration via Wall Street (or activities connected to it). Bill Clinton’s Treasury Under Secretary for International Affairs, Timothy Geithner worked with Robert Rubin, later championed Wall Street as president and CEO of the New York Federal Reserve while Hillary was senator from New York (representing Wall Street), and then became Obama’s first treasury secretary while Hillary was secretary of state.

One possible contender for treasury secretary in a new Clinton administration would be Bill Clinton’s Under Secretary of Domestic Finance and Obama’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission chairman, Gary Gensler (who was — I’m sure you won’t be shocked — a Goldman Sachs partner before entering public service). These, then, are typical inhabitants of the Clinton inner circle and of the political-financial corridors of power. Their thinking, like Hillary’s, meshes well with support for the status quo in the banking system, even if, like her, they are willing on occasion to admonish it for its “mistakes.”

This thru-line of personnel in and out of Clinton World is dangerous for most of the rest of us, because behind all the “talking heads” and genuinely amusing Saturday Night Live skits about this bizarre election lie certain crucial issues that will have to be dealt with: decisions about climate change, foreign wars, student-loan unaffordability, rising income inequality, declining social mobility, and, yes, the threat of another financial crisis. And keep in mind that such a future economic meltdown isn’t an absurdly long-shot possibility. Earlier this year, the Federal Reserve, the nation’s main bank regulator, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the government entity that insures our bank deposits, collectively noted that seven of our biggest eight banks — Citigroup was the exception — still have inadequate emergency plans in the event of another financial crisis.


Exploring a two-faced world

Politicians regularly act one way publicly and another privately, as Hillary was “outed” for doing by WikiLeaks via its document dump from Clinton campaign manager John Podesta’s hacked email account. Such realities should be treated as neither shockers nor smoking guns. Everybody postures. Everybody lies. Everybody’s two-faced in certain aspects of their lives. Politicians just make a career out of it.

What’s problematic about Hillary’s public and private positions in the economic sphere, at least, isn’t their two-facedness but how of a piece they are. Yes, she warned the bankers to “cut it out! Quit foreclosing on homes! Quit engaging in these kinds of speculative behaviors!” — but that was no demonstration of strength in relation to the big banks. Her comments revealed no real understanding of their precise role in exacerbating a fixable subprime loan calamity and global financial crisis, nor did her finger-wagging mean anything to Wall Street.

Keep in mind that, during the build-up to that crisis, as banks took advantage of looser regulations, she collected more than $7 million from the securities and investment industry for her New York Senate runs ($18 million during her career). In her first Senate campaign, Citigroup was her top contributor. The four Wall-Street-based banks (JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley) all feature among her top 10 career contributors. As a senator, she didn’t introduce any bills aimed at reforming or regulating Wall Street. During the lead-up to the financial crisis of 2007-2008, she did introduce five (out of 140) bills relating to the housing crisis, but they all died before making it through a Senate committee. So did a bill she sponsored to curtail corporate executive compensation. Though she has publicly called for a reduction in hedge-fund tax breaks (known as “closing the carried interest loophole”), including at the second debate, she never signed on to the bill that would have done so (one that Obama co-sponsored in 2007). Perhaps her most important gesture of support for Wall Street was her vote in favor of the $700 billion 2008 bank bailout bill. (Bernie Sanders opposed it.)

After her secretary of state stint, she returned to the scene of banking crimes. Many times. As we know, she was also paid exceedingly well for it. Friendship with the Clintons doesn’t come cheap. As she said in October 2013, while speaking at a Goldman Sachs AIMS Alternative Investments’ Symposium, “running for office in our country takes a lot of money, and candidates have to go out and raise it. New York is probably the leading site for contributions for fundraising for candidates on both sides of the aisle.”

Between 2013 and 2015, she gave 12 speeches to Wall Street banks, private equity firms, and other financial corporations, reaping a whopping $2,935,000 for them. In her 2016 presidential run, the securities and investment sector (aka Wall Street) has contributed the most of any industry to PACs supporting Hillary: $56.4 million.

Yes, everybody needs to make a buck or a few million of them. This is America after all, but Hillary was a political figure paid by the same banks routinely getting slapped with criminal settlements by the Department of Justice. In addition, the Clinton Foundation counted as generous donors all four of the major Wall Street-based mega-banks. She was voracious when it came to such money and tone-deaf when it came to the irony of it all.


Glass-Steagall and Bernie Sanders

One of the more illuminating aspects of the Podesta emails was a series of communications that took place in the fall of 2015. That’s when Bernie Sanders was gaining traction for, among other things, his calls to break up the big banks and resurrect the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. The Clinton administration’s dismantling of that act in 1999 had freed the big banks to use their depositors’ money as collateral for risky bets in the real estate market and elsewhere, and so allowed them to become ever more engorged with questionable securities.

On December 7, 2015, with her campaign well underway and worried about the Sanders challenge, the Clinton camp debuted a key Hillary op-ed, “How I’d Rein in Wall Street,” in the New York Times. This followed two months of emails and internal debate within her campaign over whether supporting the return of Glass-Steagall was politically palatable for her and whether not supporting it would antagonize Senator Elizabeth Warren. In the end, though Glass-Steagall was mentioned in passing in her op-ed, she chose not to endorse its return.

She explained her decision not to do so this way (and her advisers and media apostles have stuck with this explanation ever since):

“Some have urged the return of a Depression-era rule called Glass-Steagall, which separated traditional banking from investment banking. But many of the firms that contributed to the crash in 2008, like A.I.G. and Lehman Brothers, weren’t traditional banks, so Glass-Steagall wouldn’t have limited their reckless behavior. Nor would restoring Glass-Steagall help contain other parts of the ‘shadow banking’ sector, including certain activities of hedge funds, investment banks, and other non-bank institutions.”

Her entire characterization of how the 2007-2008 banking crisis unfolded was — well — wrong. Here’s how traditional banks (like JPMorgan Chase) operated: they lent money to investment banks like Lehman Brothers so that they could buy more financial waste products stuffed with subprime mortgages that these traditional banks were, in turn, trying to sell. They then backed up those toxic financial products through insurance companies like AIG, which came close to collapse when what it was insuring became too toxically overwhelming to afford. AIG then got a $182 billion government bailout that also had the effect of bailing out those traditional banks (including Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, which became “traditional” during the crisis). In this way, the whole vicious cycle started with the traditional banks that hold your deposits and at the same time could produce and sell those waste products thanks to the repeal of Glass-Steagall. So yes, the loss of that act caused the crisis and, in its wake, every big traditional bank was fined for crisis-related crimes.

Hillary won’t push to bring back Glass-Steagall. Doing so would dismantle her husband’s legacy and that of the men he and she appointed to public office. Whatever cosmetic alterations may be in store, count on that act remaining an artifact of the past, since its resurrection would dismay the bankers who, over the past three decades, made the Clintons what they are.

No wonder many diehard Sanders supporters remain disillusioned and skeptical — not to speak of the fact that their candidate featured dead last (39th) on a list of recommended vice presidential candidates in the Podesta emails. That’s unfortunately how much his agenda is likely to matter to her in the Oval Office.


Go regulate yourselves!

Before he resigned with his nine-figure golden parachute, Wells Fargo CEO and Chairman John Stumpf addressed Congress over disclosures that 5,300 of his employees had created two million fake accounts, scamming $2.4 million from existing customers. The bank was fined $185 million for that (out of a total $10 billion in fines for a range of other crimes committed before and during the financial crisis).

In response, Hillary wrote a letter to Wells Fargo’s customers. In it, she didn’t actually mention Stumpf by name, as she has not mentioned any Wall Street CEO by name in the context of criminal activity. Instead, she simply spoke of “he.” As she put it, “He owes all of you a clear explanation as to how this happened under his watch.” She added, “Executives should be held individually accountable when rampant illegal activity happens on their watch.”

She does have a plan to fine banks for being too big, but they’ve already been fined repeatedly for being crooked and it hasn’t made them any smaller or less threatening. As their top officials evidently view the matter, paying up for breaking the law is just another cost of doing business.

Hillary also wrote, “If any bank can’t be managed effectively, it should be broken up.” But the question is: Why doesn’t ongoing criminal activity that threatens the rest of us correlate with ineffective management — or put another way, when was the last time you saw a major bank broken up? And don’t hold your breath for that to happen in a new Clinton administration either.

In her public letter, she added, “I’ll appoint regulators who will stand with taxpayers and consumers, not with big banks and their friends in Congress.” On the other hand, at that same Goldman Sachs symposium, while in fundraising mode, she gave bankers a pass relative to regulators and commented: “Well, I represented all of you for eight years. I had great relations and worked so close together after 9/11 to rebuild downtown, and [I have] a lot of respect for the work you do and the people who do it.”

She has steadfastly worked to craft explanations for the financial crisis and the Great Recession that don’t endanger the banks as we presently know them. In addition, she has supported the idea of appointing insider regulators, insisting that “the people that know the industry better than anybody are the people who work in the industry.” (Let’s not forget that former Goldman Sachs CEO and Chairman Hank Paulson ran the Treasury Department while the crisis brewed.)

Among the emails sent to John Podesta that were posted by WikiLeaks is an article I wrote for TomDispatch on the Clintons’ relationships with bankers. “She will not point fingers at her friends," I said in that piece in May 2015. She will not chastise the people who pay her hundreds of thousands of dollars a pop to speak or the ones who have long shared the social circles in which she and her husband move.” I also suggested that she wouldn’t call out any CEO by name. To this day she hasn’t. I said that she would never be an advocate for Glass-Steagall. And she hasn’t been. What was true then will be no less true once she’s in the White House and no longer has to make gestures toward the platform on which Bernie ran and so can once again more openly embrace the bankers’ way of conducting business.

There’s a reason Wall Street has a crush on her and its monarchs like Goldman Sachs CEO and Chairman Lloyd Blankfein pay her such stunning sums to offer anodyne remarks to their employees and others. Blankfein has been coy about an official Clinton endorsement simply because he doesn’t want to rock her campaign boat, but make no mistake, this Wall Street kingpin’s silence is tantamount to an endorsement.

To date, $10 trillion worth of assets sits on the books of the Big Six banks. Since 2008, these same banks have copped to more than $150 billion in fines for pre-crisis behavior that ranged on the spectrum of criminality from manipulating multiple public markets to outright fraud. Hillary Clinton has arguably taken money that would not have been so available if it weren’t for the ill-gotten gains those banks secured. In her usual measured way, albeit with some light admonishments, she has told them what they want to hear: that if they behave — something that in her dictionary of definitions involves little in the way of personalized pain or punishment — so will she.

So let’s recap Hillary’s America, past, present, and future. It’s a land lacking in meaningful structural reform of the financial system, a place where the big banks have been, and will continue to be, coddled by the government. No CEO will be jailed, no matter how large the fines his bank is saddled with or how widespread the crimes it committed. Instead, he’s likely to be invited to the inaugural ball in January. Because its practices have not been adequately controlled or curtailed, the inherent risk that Wall Street poses for Main Street will only grow as bankers continue to use our money to make their bets. (The 2010 Dodd-Frank Act was supposed to help on this score, but has yet to make the big banks any smaller.)

And here’s an obvious corollary to all this: the next bank-instigated economic catastrophe will not be dealt with until it has once again crushed the financial stability of millions of Americans.

The banks have voted with their dollars on all of this in multiple ways. Hillary won’t do anything to upset that applecart. We should have no illusions about what her presidency would mean from a Wall Street vs. Main Street perspective. Certainly, JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon doesn’t. He effectively endorsed Hillary before a crowd of financial industry players, saying, “I hope the next president, she reaches across the aisle.”

For Wall Street, of course, that aisle is essentially illusory, since its players operate so easily and effectively on both sides of it. In Hillary’s America, Wall Street will still own Main Street.


http://mondediplo.com/openpage/waking-u ... -s-america
playmobil of the gods
0_0
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:13 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:40 am

Jerky » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:15 pm wrote:Novem5er, these are all absolutely legitimate reasons to judge her as being a candidate you cannot, in good conscience, support.

However, I would argue that there are mitigating circumstances and situational factors surrounding each of the instances you mention above that make them far more complicated and nuanced than they might seem to be, at first blush.

For instance, in my opinion, the whole kerfuffle over Obama being the King of Drones is entirely overblown. OF COURSE Obama has "droned" more human beings than any previous President. The technology was only being perfected towards the end of the Bush administration! Blaming Obama for using drones is like blaming FDR for going on the radio more than all previous Presidents combined (radio only became popular as a mass medium during his Presidency).

To me, a more telling metric would be the number of people killed in conflicts in which Americans are participating, either as front line combatants or in an intel or State Dept "advisory" (CIA) capacity. And while stipulating that one civilian (or even military) death caused by American action is a sad and nasty business, the fact of the matter is that, since Bush's last day in office, that number has decreased exponentially. Fewer than 3000 civilians have been killed in ongoing actions across North Africa and the Middle East since Obama was inaugurated. That's probably close to 3000 too many, but it's a tiny fraction of the monstrous suffering that went on during the Bush II admin.

Now, when we take into account conflicts where America has flexed its power in a less direct manner (Libya being a prime example, particularly when taking into account the fact that the EU essentially made that conflict inevitable), the numbers increase, but they are still nothing compared to the Bush years... which, astonishingly, are themselves nothing when compared to the Cold War years, even post-Vietnam (i.e. Uncle Sam's first go-round with Afghanistan by luring the USSR into its own proxy quagmire, which in and of itself accounts for probably close to 2 million dead).

So when taken in context, while Clinton's record as SoS may seem nasty and brutal when compared to a blank slate, when you compare it to what came before... you get an altogether different impression.

That's my 2 cents anyway. As a student of history, and as a realist, if I could vote in the USA, I would cast my vote for Hillary, and I would do so gladly, without hesitation.

J


I implore you to just look at all the photos of lifeless, dusty, bloodied Syrian children and to think about the fact that they once had lives and families who poured love into them, cooked meals for them, taught them, tried to make them the best people they could possibly be, arranged for their cousins to travel to see them for their birthdays.

The radio analogy deeply saddens me and makes me physically hurt.

Or listen to Laura Cáceres's brave speech about her mother's murder by the coup. I was there.

Or re-read Michelle Alexander's essay that I posted in this thread. She and some of the most important black intellectuals in our world today have legitimate concerns for peoples' safety and wellbeing going forward for the next 8 years, and we anticipate an almost impossible fight for human and civil rights, native sovereignty, decarceration, and equality. Michelle Alexander is not stupid. bell hooks is not stupid.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:45 am

I implore you

Bernie Sanders is not stupid

Why do you think Comey wants Trump to be president?

you know Trump hates Muslims/Blacks/Mexicans/Women

do you want Mike Pence to be the next president?

what do you think this will create?

Do you really want lynching to be fashionable again?

Image

your ideology will give you Eugene McCarthy and then you will have nothing
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:27 am

What are Cynthia McKinneys views on Hilary, slad?
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Jerky » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:28 am

Luther, you are one of the regular members of this board whose participation I most value, so I'm going to try to reply as well as I possibly can without having slept in the last 24 hours.

For the most part, I agree with you. This world will rip your heart out and take a giant shit all over it, every time. And when it coughs up an atrocity, or threatens yet another new monstrosity, I have endeavored, throughout my life, to not look away, to deal with the horror with eyes wide open, and to be honest with myself and others about it. I suppose this had more meaning when I had a quarter million people reading my column on a daily basis, but I still try to be as honest with myself and with others as I possibly can.

Stalin was a world-historic monster, but perhaps he exposed a hidden tenderness of heart when he made his famous declaration about tragedy versus statistics. Each individual unnecessary death is obviously a tragedy. So until we come together as a species and do whatever is necessary to ensure that every last innocent is spared from the ravages of conflict over whatever cause, be it the vagaries of creed or the consequence of greed, the righteous will have cause to rage.

In other words... until our species goes extinct, the righteous will have cause to rage.

Plato said that only the dead have seen the end of war. Christ said the poor will be with us always.

Your comment reminds me of the Israel/Palestine conflict, where both sides get their fellow partisans' blood boiling with heartbreaking images of beautiful, innocent children smashed to bloody bits by beastly, inhuman Others. Without getting into the particulars of that particular booby-trapped conflict, the participants might as well be shrieking into mirrors.

The sad fact of the matter is that, for the vast majority of history, the Great Game of politics has been incredibly brutal and bloody, and the stakes incredibly high. And it is an insidious game, in that simply taking yourself out of it doesn't make you immune to the effects and consequences of its outcomes.

I will once again state my belief, which I think is borne out by the facts, that in terms of America's role internationally, the last 8 years, while not perfect, were an improvement - or maybe I should say a decrease in awfulness - over the 8 years that preceded, and that Hillary Clinton was likely a big part of that trendline.

Furthermore, this generational period has also seen a vast improvement over the generational period that preceded it. Unless, that is, you think today's average Honduran would want to trade places with a Nicaraguan of the 1980's, or a any average citizen of today's South America would want to go back to the early 70's. And let's not even get started on Southeast Asia...

Are things perfect? Of course not. Can they be improved? Absolutely. And I think that, of the only two realistic choices being presented for the job, a President Clinton is a lot more likely to affect positive change in a direction both you and I would appreciate than a President Trump ever could, or even would if he could.

If you find that supporting her, either rhetorically or with a vote, is a bridge too far for you, so be it. But please try not to be too judgmental of those of us willing to deal with the world as it comes to us, and not as we wish it would be.

Sincerely yours,
yer old pal Jerky
User avatar
Jerky
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:54 am

Don't worry slad, found this from Aug 2016, so fairly current:

She sees no difference between Hilary & Trump. Have to say, I like her.
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:56 am

I don't worry at all about any question you may ask me...

you do not bother me at all



I know her thoughts on Clinton ..do you know her thoughts on Trump?

starting @6:20


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqMbFP-J_NU

Americans...which you are not...clean up your own house..you are surely not one to give advice to me ... only have 2 choices
I am a loyal Bernie person in 2016

get a clue this is 2016..not even close to 1968..I learn from American political history.....which you are sorely lacking
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:05 am

slad:
you are surely not one to give advice to me

Yeah, I get it that you're an exceptional person who doesn't need advice from a nobody like me. Cheers! :thumbsup
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:07 am

not exceptional at all just know who my friends are
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:08 am

I'm making my best effort not to judge, and am engaging in an action this week that will probably help ensure my district goes her way even more than it would already (I'm sure I live in about a 1% Trumpland, but it's one that's been targeted by far right groups for voter intimidation). It's just the right thing to do to protect non-white peoples' right to vote, and at least in the older voter blocs they will be mostly voting for her.

I think we're on the cusp of change, that era of post-scarcity and maybe even peace and understanding alluded to in that other new thread, but it's going to be created through people power over the next 8 years. I do believe that engaging that against what is most likely the most directly imperial and neoliberal regime in U.S. history (with a supremely angry far-right mob just behind them) will be a challenge though.

I live in the largest city with the deepest poverty so I have not seen a decrease in awfulness for almost all non-whites and most of my working class white friends over the last 8 years. My mother lives in poverty without oil, electricity, cable, internet, a car, a job, or money. Her life has certainly gotten worse in the last 8 years. My life has improved but from what I see around me — from my younger colleagues with whom I organize, to the black lives matter activists I meet, to the people in the community gardens, to almost everyone outside of the major cities (I've been taking a lot of roadtrips), to many of my peers — I think I'm definitely the exception. I also believe that I am garbage who has only gained through privilege and white supremacy, which is why I spend every other waking second building for social and environmental justice.

I think that the past 8 years have been really bad for most.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests