9/11 Truth Movement vs. 9/11 Truth

[8bitagent]

.....
Akamai is the tech company by high level Israeli anti hijacker commando Daniel Lewin, who was shot in the face on Flight 11 on 9/11/2001

C'mon, 8bit. There is no reliable evidence of any kind for what happened to passengers on any of those planes.
See "Let's roll!"

Akamai is now one of the world's biggest servers, and are behind Myspace, Fox News.com, and many other sites.

That's interesting. Now my wild conjecture-
Lewin's work on the ground at MIT in 1998 looks very much like the kind of thing useful in spook datamining and network analysis schemes. Might be useful to eliminate him for a number of reasons with a bad flight booking like the guy on Conair's crash that Alex Constantine focused on.
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=276856&dl=ACM&coll=portal

Conjecture can be useful. But I know what the laws of physics mandate.

I agree, that like John Oneil, Lewin may have been targetted for his work.

Datamining is very prevelent with 9/11, from post BCCI PROMIS, Ptech, Panecea, etc to Risk Management and various AI software.

And you're right, we may never know what happened on those planes.
But there's no denying Lewin was a high level Israeli commando and created Akamai, which runs many of the top websites on the net, and dovetails with Israeli communications and technology.

[AlicetheKurious]

8bitagent said:

I fully believe Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda was intimately involved in 9/11, I have no doubt. They were not "framed", there is no "false" flag.
They were all too willing dupes, and did not concieve or mastermind 9/11.
Instead they were the all too eager beaver bullet, with the NWO holding the gun.

I can show precisely who was handling the hijackers, the middlemen, etc
It was a cross layer of corporation fronts(Tatex, Infocom, Infocus, Ptech, CDS Intl, etc) along with the post al Kifah Refugee linked CIA networks, ISI, Saudi Arabia, terror charity fronts, Dubai banking networks, etc.

I can prove it was Yeslam bin Laden and SICO corporation who made sure the hijackers got sent to the CIA linked drug smuggling Florida flight schools that the Sun Tabloid people were going to(who also hosted the hijackers and then got anthraxed)

I can prove that virtually every hijacker had a "buddy system" with non Arab handlers, Muslim assets and agents, had their credit cards paid for,
had non Arabs/Muslims staying in their rooms, and was living with government protected informants/imans/charities or CIA "baby sitters"

Well, ok, if you say so.


Jeff said:

And yeah, I think there's something wrong with throwing around the term "sheeple" and yelling at people to "wake up." Not because it's impolite, though it is. But because those who do it present themselves as a fucking mental political cult whose conduct discredits its issues, and everyone else who shares those issues.

Oh, I get it. No need to look at those issues, then...

Wow, now I know how relaxing it feels to have someone else think for me. Who knew? I could have saved myself no end of aggravation.

Baaaaa..I mean, bye for now.

[8bitagent]

Jeff said:

..About the OKC analogy, there is one to be made, but also there are deeper questions about OKC that are not exhausted with the discussion of what took down the building. The role and protection of "Andy the German," for instance, and Terry Nichols' Philippine connection to Ramzi Yousef....

Oh, there was much to argue about OKC, but the Christian patriot noise became about THE BOMB!, THE BOMB!!, THE BOMB!!!, and drowned out so much of the rest.

Yes, those darn evil jack booted "Nazi" racist guys talking about the UN, one world government, chemtrails, gun rights and black helicopters;)

Here's the proof OKC was a government inside job:

Melvin Lattimore, James Rosencrantz(both FBI provocatuers)


Sean Kenny(FBI informant)



alhussaini Hussain


and Terry Nichols speaking out on the government using him and Mcveigh:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,660197443,00.html

I'm talking about eras. Time periods. We call them by their Presidential name. The Ike era. The JFK era. The Teddy era. The LBJ era.
I refer to 1993-2000 as the Clinton era. The Clinton Administration period.

I'm sorry, do you really believe 9/11 was cooked up in January 2001 and pushed into being by the neocons in what, barely 8 months?

We're talking the deep state during the Clinton years, 1993-2000.
Same sort of deep state that killed JFK-RFK-MLK, and sent a "warning" to Reagan with Bush buddy Hinckley

The CIA was clearly taking orders from Poppy Bush and Brzezinski, and then their handlers and advisors. I believe Carter is a great man, and is proof of how a good guy can be coopted without him even realizing it.

ok, the above explains your intent better than what you said before...

Sorry about that. Yeah I dont mean to say Clinton, Albright, Reno etc were clasping their hands saying "haha, let's see how we can create 9/11"

Certainly Clinton probably does believe "al Qaeda done it", and certainly
he feels justified in his Sudanese baby formula factory strike, Kosovar bombing, Iraqi bombing etc is all justified.

And certainly, we're talking about the deep state during this timeframe.

I just feel the Clinton era is not really examined, and all the focus is on jan 2001-sept 11th, and specifically the day itself. I long ago got over the notion that "democrats are good guys, and only the republicans are bad guys" as many believe.

9/11 all comes back to the WTC 1993 and "Bojinka" plot,
which to me reek of CIA creations

[Telexx]

After 2004 the hardest truth to face, the controlled demolition, was re-asserted with hard science and established...

Sorry, but it has only been established with hard science in your subjective opinion.

...as far more damning then the earlier 'incompetence or LIHOP' stories that both conveniently reinforced "blowback that needs a police-state defense."

LIHOP would not conveniently facilitate a police-state defense, if proven it would demonstrate that some demonic fuckers actually let 3000+ of their own people be murdered on purpose which would be just about the most devastating blow to the establishment as is possible.

And, btw, MIHOP doesn't depend on CD, unless you subscribe to your first point, which - as of yet - has not been proven.

So the anti-9/11 Truth sleeper disinformation-division-diversion campaign cranked way up in response to this predictable eventuality rather like the incremental gestation of the JFK Truth movement.

To suggest that LIHOP was a CIA-sponsored meme propagated to throw people off the CD scent is the precise kind of bullshit that causes the Truth to be characterised as tin-foil-hat-wearin'-crazies... Sorry.

Kthx,

Telexx

ON EDIT: corrected typo

[Jeff]

After 2004 the hardest truth to face, the controlled demolition, was re-asserted with hard science and established as far more damning then the earlier 'incompetence or LIHOP' stories that both conveniently reinforced "blowback that needs a police-state defense."

Let's be clear about one thing: such as an official story exists, incompetence is it.

One other thing (though I hate talking about things via acronym): "LIHOP" in no way reinforces a police-state defense. No effin' way. You don't reward with more power those who with criminal intent let it happen on purpose.

[8bitagent]

Oh, I get it. No need to look at those issues, then...

Wow, now I know how relaxing it feels to have someone else think for me. Who knew? I could have saved myself no end of aggravation.

Baaaaa..I mean, bye for now.

Yes, I believe 9/11 was the work of more than just the US government and Israel:)

[Searcher08]

Hugh, please direct me to ANY video of a controlled demolition that looks ANYTHING like what happened to WTC 1 or 2 -
(not WTC -7 which I believe WAS a CD and which looks like a CD)

The clips of the CD's in that video look absolutely NOTHING like how WTC 1 or 2 came down, in fact I think they provide excellent visual evidence that aconventional CD approach was NOT used on WTC 1 or 2.

Please note that I am not a believer in the NISTian fairy tale!


Searcher

[AlanStrangis]

Hugh, please direct me to ANY video of a controlled demolition that looks ANYTHING like what happened to WTC 1 or 2 -
(not WTC -7 which I believe WAS a CD and which looks like a CD)

The clips of the CD's in that video look absolutely NOTHING like how WTC 1 or 2 came down, in fact I think they provide excellent visual evidence that aconventional CD approach was NOT used on WTC 1 or 2.

Please note that I am not a believer in the NISTian fairy tale!


Searcher

Actually, I don't think you WOULD find many that match the towers, as they would require a different methodoloy precisely BECAUSE of the injection of aircraft.

I'm no CD proponent, but I don't think that's a valid argument to contest the CD theory.

[MacCruiskeen]

Shocking. 117,000 hits on Google (which gets how many million visitors a day)? These Truthers are clearly an even sma, I mean bigger threat than I suspected. And we can be quite sure there's absolutely no disinformation being planted out there. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda + terror + our freedom gets 1,830,000 hits,while Britney + nude manages a respectable 867,000. Clearly, the world is going to hell in a handbasket. (And I thought people were nice...)

everyone else who shares those issues.

You mean like who, exactly? Like Corn? Cockburn? Taibbi? 'Skinner'? Or who? Show me where any one one of those Leading Liberals ever 'shared the issue' (i.e., that the 'Official Theory' - still current, still doing sterling duty - is not just a handy excuse for permanent war, but an insult to the intelligence of a budgie. Show me where any one of those sharing carers ever stuck their necks out that far, rather than covering their arses while tugging their forelocks. Show me where any one of them ever defended Cynthia McKinney when she most needed it. Show me where any one of them made a serious effort to support and publicise the workof Paul Thompson or the Jersey Widows. Show me where any one of them ever engaged seriously with the strongest arguments, instead of cackling at the weakest while parading their own (entirely imaginary) moral and intellectual superiority.

Look at those heroes of the Enlightenment, sniping and snickering at the unspeakable proles, in a far louder voice than those proles are ever likely to have. And these Leading Liberals have been going on like this for fucking years now - ever since the 'issue' they allegedly 'share' (but had hitherto studiously ignored) became quite unignorable.

With a Left like this, Jeff, who needs a Right? Nobody. Nobody at all. These guys* know their place, after all. A Left of that quality can be trusted never to overstep the Bounds of the Expressible, and is therefore very easily tolerable.

*Funny how nearly all of these ego-driven Klugscheisser are male, whereas many of the bravest 'Truthers' [sic], from McKinney to Breitweiser to Rowley, are women, and therefore all the more easily ignored.

[Jeff]

everyone else who shares those issues.

You mean like who, exactly? Like Corn? Cockburn? Taibbi? 'Skinner'? Or who? Show me where any one one of those Leading Liberals ever 'shared the issue'

Is my writing really so obtuse? I mean everyone who has unanswered questions about 9/11, and suspects that its events were managed in part by powerful and unacknowledged forces.

[Searcher08]

Actually, I don't think you WOULD find many that match the towers, as they would require a different methodoloy precisely BECAUSE of the injection of aircraft.

I'm no CD proponent, but I don't think that's a valid argument to contest the CD theory.

Thanks, Alan
OK, lets explore this a bit more

How would the impacting of the aircraft change the demolition methodology?
a) It would probably mean that you had to be damn sure the aircraft would hit the specified floors
b) It would mean that the aircraft strike floors and a significent zone around them would have to be free of cd explosive to prevent them going off prematurely

However, I do not accept that having a different placement in explosives would give rise what we see with WTC 1 or 2.

Last year , I tried to find a cd that resembled WTC 1 or 2 and found zip.
(I found LOADS that looked like WTC-7:) )

I am still waiting to hear how traditional cd can vapourise steel beams into microspheres... and make the central steel column just plain fade away..

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

After 2004 the hardest truth to face, the controlled demolition, was re-asserted with hard science and established...

Sorry, but it has only been established with hard science in your subjective opinion.

*sigh*
What am I supposed to do, cite every single thing at Architect and Engineers for 9/11 Truth yet again?

You call all that "subjective opinion?" *shrugs*

...as far more damning then the earlier 'incompetence or LIHOP' stories that both conveniently reinforced "blowback that needs a police-state defense."

LIHOP would not conveniently facilitate a police-state defense, if proven it would demonstrate that some demonic fuckers actually let 3000+ of their own people be murdered on purpose which would be just about the most devastating blow to the establishment as is possible.

Uh, "murdered" by who? Oh yeah. Those 'bearded baddies who hate us for our freedom.'
That was my point. As long as folks think Evil Ay-rabs done killed our kin, the feud is on.

So the anti-9/11 Truth sleeper disinformation-division-diversion campaign cranked way up in response to this predictable eventuality rather like the incremental gestation of the JFK Truth movement.

To suggest that LIHOP was a CIA-sponsored meme propagated to throw people off the CD scent is the precise kind of bullshit that causes the Truth to be characterised as tin-foil-hat-wearin'-crazies... Sorry.

I didn't say that. Some of us "crazies" are tired of being flayed with straw men.

The controlled demolition was known to the National inSecurity State experts (who know junior high school physics) immediately and control of the story went into effect immediately, just like Dealey Plaza.

One technique of counterpropaganda is silence. That is, not advertising the very thing you want to suppress so that maybe the story stays small and dies out on its own.

So the USG disinformation teams waited until the truthers started to catch on much later to put out their demolition-specific disinfo like Fetzer/Woods/Reynolds "power beams from space" and the nonsense from Manuel Garcia.

That's all I meant.

Kthx,
HMW

[AlanStrangis]

Actually, I don't think you WOULD find many that match the towers, as they would require a different methodoloy precisely BECAUSE of the injection of aircraft.

I'm no CD proponent, but I don't think that's a valid argument to contest the CD theory.

Thanks, Alan
OK, lets explore this a bit more

How would the impacting of the aircraft change the demolition methodology?
a) It would probably mean that you had to be damn sure the aircraft would hit the specified floors
b) It would mean that the aircraft strike floors and a significent zone around them would have to be free of cd explosive to prevent them going off prematurely

However, I do not accept that having a different placement in explosives would give rise what we see with WTC 1 or 2.

Last year , I tried to find a cd that resembled WTC 1 or 2 and found zip.
(I found LOADS that looked like WTC-7:) )

I am still waiting to hear how traditional cd can vapourise steel beams into microspheres... and make the central steel column just plain fade away..

Actually...
a) I somewhat agree, and the technology to ensure this certainly existed before Sept 11 2001.

b) some hi grade explosives can also withstand the temps from plane impact, and a dual mechanism wouldn't be out of order (say thermate inside a C4 shell, inside a case). You'd definitely want shaped charges directly on the steel structure, and this should definitely fit within the confines of a case the size of a 1U rack server -

then

c) you'd need to plant charges every 10 floors or so to create a cascading effect.

Other than access, it's totally plausibe. Then again, the buildings were getting network upgrades the weekend before, right?

Not that I've given it much thought, or that it's gonna convince anyone it hasn't already.

[OP ED]

*refuses to participate*

[Searcher08]

Shocking. 117,000 hits on Google (which gets how many million visitors a day)? These Truthers are clearly an even sma, I mean bigger threat than I suspected. And we can be quite sure there's absolutely no disinformation being planted out there. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda + terror + our freedom gets 1,830,000 hits,while Britney + nude manages a respectable 867,000. Clearly, the world is going to hell in a handbasket. (And I thought people were nice...)

everyone else who shares those issues.

You mean like who, exactly? Like Corn? Cockburn? Taibbi? 'Skinner'? Or who? Show me where any one one of those Leading Liberals ever 'shared the issue' (i.e., that the 'Official Theory' - still current, still doing sterling duty - is not just a handy excuse for permanent war, but an insult to the intelligence of a budgie. Show me where any one of those sharing carers ever stuck their necks out that far, rather than covering their arses while tugging their forelocks. Show me where any one of them ever defended Cynthia McKinney when she most needed it. Show me where any one of them made a serious effort to support and publicise the workof Paul Thompson or the Jersey Widows. Show me where any one of them ever engaged seriously with the strongest arguments, instead of cackling at the weakest while parading their own (entirely imaginary) moral and intellectual superiority.

Look at those heroes of the Enlightenment, sniping and snickering at the unspeakable proles, in a far louder voice than those proles are ever likely to have. And these Leading Liberals have been going on like this for fucking years now - ever since the 'issue' they allegedly 'share' (but had hitherto studiously ignored) became quite unignorable.

With a Left like this, Jeff, who needs a Right? Nobody. Nobody at all. These guys* know their place, after all. A Left of that quality can be trusted never to overstep the Bounds of the Expressible, and is therefore very easily tolerable.

*Funny how nearly all of these ego-driven Klugscheisser are male, whereas many of the bravest 'Truthers' [sic], from McKinney to Breitweiser to Rowley, are women, and therefore all the more easily ignored.

Mac, that is a "pain in the ass, I just wish the hell it was different, but it isnt" analysis.

Sibel Edmonds languishes in the "where are they now file" of American patriots who went over the wire, yelling "if you don't back me up, I may get killed" while the Left looks away, chatters a bit about how cute she looks - and lets Henry Waxman get away with total shit around her.

The only people who supported Sibel were journalists from a fucking MURDOCH paper (London - Sunday Times Insight team - albeit the one paper that had traditionally a lot of editorial independence) Talk about having skin in the game, she has had family members fucking tortured in Turkey, where she is reviled in the papers as "that unpatriotic lying whore" by their papers.
Meanwhile the LatteLeft does sweet fuck all.

My waking up to the attitude of the Left to 911 came when seeing how 911 activists were treated at Camp Casey and at the anti-war demonstrations that followed in DC. They were told from on-high that there was NO alliance, NO discussions, that it was "distracting the public", that we needed to "focus on the war", that it was vital to look to the elections to get the boys home.

Well, Nancy fucking scumbag Pelosi is what you got, who always has a great reason-de-jour for why American soldiers killing and being killed in Iraq still - she does such a great line in hand-wringing and fake sincerity.

911 activism doesn't need alliances with lying wankers like Pelosi and her Israel-first ilk.