Jani's at the mercy of her mind

[agitprop]

On a per capita basis, a child, has a much higher chance of being abused in a residential facility or foster home.

If you have any expertise you know full well that the abuse rates of children abused in "intact" families are basically a complete unknown.

This isn't something that would be easy for a father to get a kid to do, unless he's somehow cuing her like Hans the clever horse.

Interesting that the preliminary mocking of RA is now being followed with a similar mocking of the use of NLP on children ("like Hans the clever horse").

And to put out the obvious - motor tics sometimes co-present with severe clinical depression.

What is RA, and NLP?

[justdrew]

Just pointing out that there seems to be some indication that the child has a perhaps unusual need for perfection, Mac. This may not have anything to do with her parents, but could possibly be a part of her condition. We simply do not have enough information to be having this ridiculous internet argument.

I know that's probably right, but look at what we do know and the thread history and look at what I'm suggesting should be done, I'm not assigning absolute blame anywhere, the doctors are doing what they feel they have to and what they can within their limitations, they don't have the ability to dictate conditions or on-going treatment. When a parent lobbies hard for five months and it's possible to give them what they want, they tend to get their way. Something different has to be tried.

[lightningBugout]

Am I to understand that people apparently as suggestible as [you(?)] seem to be, give no credence to the central them in Kubrick's movie, Eyes Wide Shut? I do.

Sidetrack conversation much? First off, don't call me suggestible. Thanks.

The basic precept of EWS? Yes, I give quite a bit of credence to it. Though I would say the basic precept of that film is ultimately about the relationship between intimacy, alienation and mortality and that the Illuminati scenes are primarily symbolic. Which is not to say I think Kubrick did or did not believe in such a thing. And for the record I am well aware that the bored and very wealthy have a long and distinguished history of kid-fucking and playing with magick.

What annoys me about the kind of idiocy I see on this thread is the strong desire to see all demons radiating from the medical community while you ignore the cast of characters that are much higher up and inflicting real pain on the world, generally...because they can do whatever they want.

Then you haven't read the thread except with a selective gaze. There has been a great deal of lateral and hierarchical speculation beyond the docs. I know that is most of what I, personally, have tried to offer. Either way, you appear to have a solid handful of agendas. This thread is heated and has depth. It is hardly idiotic.

Illuminati? Nah...Just a bunch of super wealthy and bored individuals, playing with sex and power.

Yes but within a long and time-honored tradition of so doing. One that is not just "playing" but that probably comes out of Luciferianism, the Golden Dawn, the Hellfire Club, etc. Funny that you make it sound so inconsequential.

ps:

RA = Ritual Abuse
NLP = Neuro-Linguistic Programming
Chiggerbit = Right

[agitprop]

The sad thing Lightening Bugout, I agree with so much that you say about society being a mess and the environment and people in general being crazy, but, you have to credit the idea that very extremely mentally ill people have been around for centuries, before any of these dynamics were set in place. What is the best way to deal with the most extremely ill? Regardless of organic cause, the parents have to be given the benefit of the doubt or a witch hunt atmosphere is created.

[justdrew]

The sad thing Lightening Bugout, I agree with so much that you say about society being a mess and the environment and people in general being crazy, but, you have to credit the idea that very extremely mentally ill people have been around for centuries, before any of these dynamics were set in place. What is the best way to deal with the most extremely ill? Regardless of organic cause, the parents have to be given the benefit of the doubt or a witch hunt atmosphere is created.

the point is we have little information showing that her baseline, absent drugs and a unhealthy environment, is extremely ill. The interventions that have been tried have probably pushed her there, at the moment, but who can say that a different environment and treatment paradigm wouldn't help massively? If it doesn't help, well, then drugs can be fallen back on, later, after trying something different for a couple years. and there may well be use for some minor medication to help her get to regular sleep pattern. Likely there IS some underlying physical basis, see the early years differences she manifested, but that underlying issue is being completely MASKED by the consequences of current treatment 'modalities'

[agitprop]

The sad thing Lightening Bugout, I agree with so much that you say about society being a mess and the environment and people in general being crazy, but, you have to credit the idea that very extremely mentally ill people have been around for centuries, before any of these dynamics were set in place. What is the best way to deal with the most extremely ill? Regardless of organic cause, the parents have to be given the benefit of the doubt or a witch hunt atmosphere is created.

the point is we have little information showing that her baseline, absent drugs and a unhealthy environment, is extremely ill. The interventions that have been tried have probably pushed her there, at the moment, but who can say that a different environment and treatment paradigm wouldn't help massively? If it doesn't help, well, then drugs can be fallen back on, later, after trying something different for a couple years. and there may well be use for some minor medication to help her get to regular sleep pattern.

I agree that whatever they're doing, it's not working. I also cringe at the idea of basically poisoning a child into a calmer state. That shouldn't be an option. I honestly don't know what I'd do, as a parent, if I had a child that never slept. I apologize for calling your comments idiotic, they're just emotional. Maybe the dad should take a holiday for a couple of months and see how Jani does. Maybe he is a major league nutbar, some distance between him and the little girl would certainly be interesting.

I'm just worried about witch hunts....that's all. Peace out.

[justdrew]

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thud

Maurice K. Temerlin split 25 psychiatrists into two groups and had them listen to an actor portraying a character of normal mental health. One group was told that the actor "was a very interesting man because he looked neurotic, but actually was quite psychotic" while the other was told nothing. Sixty percent of the former group diagnosed psychoses, most often schizophrenia, while none of the control group did so.

[MacCruiskeen]

Just pointing out that there seems to be some indication that the child has a perhaps unusual need for perfection, Mac.

Nothing in the least unusual about it, chig. Absolutely typical and normal for a child of her age, in fact. (By the way: "Some indication" = a single one-line unsupported assertion in a disgraceful psychiatrist's report, which I had already quoted and commented on in some detail. As I said.)

This may not have anything to do with her parents, but could possibly be a part of her condition.

What "condition"? Please specify, with actual evidence of that "condition", if you mean anything other than her tortured response to a) exhaustively documented torture by her father, and b) massive doses of psychoactive meds.

We simply do not have enough information to be having this ridiculous internet argument.

Yes we do. We have loads of evidence - a very unusually large amount of evidence, in fact - thoughtfully blogged for us every day by the main perpetrator. You're ignoring it completely, while pretending it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, you're filling up the thread with strings of unattributed quotes (on which you don't comment) and statements of the demonstrably false. (e.g. "not enough information".)

this ridiculous internet argument

The argument is not ridiculous, chiggerbit. What's ridiculous, frankly, (or worse) is your incessant fence-sitting in the face of overwhelming documented evidence of severe and ongoing child abuse.

Please spend some time on that blog, i.e. the evidence you claim doesn't exist, and then tell me what you think. Or else just read the numerous quotes I've already posted here and get back to me. It would be a shame to stretch the thread by posting all those quotes yet again, and besides, my time's not unlimited.

Thank you.

[justdrew]

I'm just worried about witch hunts....that's all. Peace out.

thank you and right on, that's worth guarding against and checking for.

[lightningBugout]

The sad thing Lightening Bugout, I agree with so much that you say about society being a mess and the environment and people in general being crazy, but, you have to credit the idea that very extremely mentally ill people have been around for centuries, before any of these dynamics were set in place. What is the best way to deal with the most extremely ill? Regardless of organic cause, the parents have to be given the benefit of the doubt or a witch hunt atmosphere is created.

Despite mainstream propaganda, most genetic traits for things like heart disease, cancer and diabetes are not remotely close to definitive. They are dependent on various environmental variables. I am mostly aware of the negative role of mal-nutrition (aka the standard american diet aka SAD) therein.

But I assume the same is true of schizophrenia, not necessarily in relation to nutrition.

Extremely mentally ill people have been around for ages.

But the entire point is that the threshold for what sort of behavior (symptomology) now gets labeled and demands treatment is increasingly milder.

Even if this girl has organic schizophrenia, much of what is described in her symptomology is a series of behaviors (mostly those related to energy, stimulation and aggression) that are increasingly common in children. Were these things lessened, perhaps the question of her schizophrenia would become clearer and/or, if positive, easier to manage.

Who fucking knows.

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm just worried about witch hunts....that's all. Peace out.

thank you and right on, that's worth guarding against and checking for.

Witch-hunts are always worth warning against, but there's very little likelihood of the father being subjected to one. On the contrary: ABC TV and the LA Times have presented him as a hero, while his blog's comments-box is now receiving ever more messages of fawning approval:

http://www.januaryfirst.org/www.january ... try_1.html

Meanwhile, and in striking contrast, his six-year-old daughter is not just being hunted, but has long since been trapped and tortured in true mediaeval style. (Recommendations of exorcism are also not scarce.)

She's not dead yet, though.

[justdrew]

I'm just worried about witch hunts....that's all. Peace out.

thank you and right on, that's worth guarding against and checking for.

Witch-hunts are always worth warning against, but there's very little likelihood of the father being subjected to one. On the contrary: ABC TV and the LA Times have presented him as a hero, while his blog's comments-box is now receiving ever more messages of fawning approval.

Meanwhile, and in striking contrast, his six-year-old daughter is not just being hunted, but has long since been trapped and tortured in true mediaeval style. (Recommendations of exorcism are also not scarce.)

She's not dead yet, though.

that blog is going to be a chorus of reinforcement when what (I think, believe and feel) they most need is to fall back and reassess the entire situation, which is really not likely to be possible for the parents at this time. The relationship has just gotten too toxic for the time being and they really just don't have the resources to care for her by themselves.

[Nordic]

Out with it, Nordic. Put your money where your mouth is. I want to see that evidence. And it better be good.

.

Mac, How can Nordic put his money where his mouth is while simultaneously sitting on the fence? You want him to support his non position on the issue with concrete evidence? Are you out of YOUR mind?

The question was perfectly clear to anyone not cognitively impaired.

You are a buffoon as well as a brute. Stop wasting my time.

Wow, now you are the one acting completely and utterly unhinged.

Seriously.

And throwing insults at people trying to engage you on a rational level isn't really very helpful.

Listen, we're all on the side of the little girl here. You seem to have overlooked that.

[agitprop]

Though she definitely seems ill to me, schizophrenia wouldn't be the first diagnosis that would pop into my mind, nor obviously her doctors, as her father admits. Poor kid. Whatever is going on there, it's awful. Imagine not being able to sleep since babyhood for whatever reason.

[MacCruiskeen]

that blog is going to be a chorus of reinforcement when what (I think, believe and feel) they most need is to fall back and reassess the entire situation, which is really not likely to be possible for the parents at this time. The relationship has just gotten too toxic for the time being and they really just don't have the resources to care for her by themselves.

Amen.

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way, and for posting the link to Michael Schofield's blog, and for your very sane comments here. LightningBugout too, and many others. The thread is heated all right, but far from ridiculous, except occasionally when it gets sidetracked.

Nashvillebrook, I owe you a proper response but got involved in too many other arguments here. Will respond to your very interesting and informative posts tomorrow.

Peace out.